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Soul Skater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,201
Lets not get caught in the " OMG you HAVE to immediately accept the results of elections!" trap please

Who was impeached and caught red handed for election fuckery multiple times? It wasn't Joe Biden


be more concerned about Trump tampering the results than not accepting one where he loses please
 
Feb 14, 2018
3,083
What IS the situation like down there now since I keep hearing different things.
In Cuba, or among Cubans in Florida?

From the second-hand accounts I hear of Cuba, there's worry of a worsening food shortage. Coronavirus doesn't seem like a big issue there. I don't have much more info than that.

Yeah, I had an older colleague who was a refugee from Castro's Cuba at the height of its dictatorship, and I would not want to tell him to chill out on Bass's comments.

People going back to the well on these kinds of comments about dictatorships are actual examples of that dril tweet about ISIS.
They know our healthcare and education systems suck. They would totally be open to leftward reform in those areas. Just, as you said, you don't "got to hand it to" any authoritarian regimes in the process. Let's let Trump be the one who praises dictators too much.

I don't know much about Bass and she's probably fine. Her being the pick would just cause a headache for me.
 

RocketKiss

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
4,691

Plinko

Member
Oct 28, 2017
18,562
Lets not get caught in the " OMG you HAVE to immediately accept the results of elections!" trap please

Who was impeached and caught red handed for election fuckery multiple times? It wasn't Joe Biden


be more concerned about Trump tampering the results than not accepting one where he loses please

Those are all concerns, but having an entire party refuse to accept electoral results because they lost is going to be a disaster. What happens in the Senate?
 

plagiarize

Eating crackers
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,511
Cape Cod, MA
I'm still not sure Ted Cruz wouldn't have been measurably worse to be fair. But that part about Trump maybe doing good was stupid even at the time.
 

Witness

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,802
Hartford, CT
What, Is the current line of thinking that all Republicans won't accept their election results? Isn't that irrelevant when the results get certified or if the vote is close enough for a recount?
 

Deleted member 17092

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
20,360
What, Is the current line of thinking that all Republicans won't accept their election results? Isn't that irrelevant when the results get certified or if the vote is close enough for a recount?

I think what is happening is that people are realizing there literally isn't a viable enforcement mechanism to remove someone from office if the people tasked with doing with the enforcing actively prefer the GOP keep their offices. Say you have 2 senators showing up to the job, who do you think is going to be kicked out of the building if they protest? They won't kick out the GOP incumbent.

And yeah if the argument is "well that doesn't matter because some words on some paper say they no longer hold the office blah blah blah" well, who is still literally sitted in that seat handling all the official business? Who turns all that over? What staff does that? If there is no transition of power then it literally doesn't happen regardless of what the law says. Oh then take it to the courts. At that point it's too late.
 

Zeno

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,150
I think what is happening is that people are realizing there literally isn't a viable enforcement mechanism to remove someone from office if the people tasked with doing with the enforcing actively prefer the GOP keep their offices. Say you have 2 senators showing up to the job, who do you think is going to be kicked out of the building if they protest? They won't kick out the GOP incumbent.
One relief with Trump is that he's not popular with the military & military officers/leaders. Of course, that's clearly not a situation the military wants to be involved in.
 

metalslimer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,558
If republicans were going to fight against democracy 2018 seems like it would have been the better time to go complete fascist
 

Deleted member 17092

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
20,360
If republicans were going to fight against democracy 2018 seems like it would have been the better time to go complete fascist

Why? Feels like more of a last stand for them rn than 18, and the fukcery is always is way more prevalent in the presidential years than the midterms for obvious reasons. It's holding the final checks and balances for 4 years not 2. Also it might sound crazy but it gives them an out. "It wasn't rigged in 2018 so how is it now." It's actually not crazy.
 

Plinko

Member
Oct 28, 2017
18,562
What, Is the current line of thinking that all Republicans won't accept their election results? Isn't that irrelevant when the results get certified or if the vote is close enough for a recount?

Somebody earlier posted an article about a bipartisan group analyzing the end results of the president refusing to accept results, and it wasn't good. Every single one of their scenarios ended in some sort of violence and public upheaval.

I was just theorizing that if Trump refuses, why not the people that are attached to him every step of the way?

If republicans were going to fight against democracy 2018 seems like it would have been the better time to go complete fascist

Trump is the catalyst. If he loses and refuses to accept, they'll move lockstep with him.
 

Witness

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,802
Hartford, CT
If republicans were going to fight against democracy 2018 seems like it would have been the better time to go complete fascist

Agreed, they had all the control then so that makes more sense to me. I can see them getting out of rubble of 2020 and try to make a fresh start without Trump for 2022. Like casting aside a giant anchor.

In 2020, people are protesting in numbers never before seen. If Republicans refuse to leave the building you damn well know the people are going to march on Washington.
 

Deleted member 17092

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
20,360
Agreed, they had all the control then so that makes more sense to me. I can see them getting out of rubble of 2020 and try to make a fresh start without Trump for 2022. Like casting aside a giant anchor.

In 2020, people are protesting in numbers never before seen. If Republicans refuse to leave the building you damn well know the people are going to march on Washington.

Sure, it might be bigger and more organized than what we saw in 16, which was also obviously stolen. Given the willingness of police and NG to gas civilians do you think that will change the outcome if they were to pull off an even more obvious coup? Trump is gonna step down? 25th? What do you think will happen other than an even more villainous police state if they were to do it? They could disband the house and get away with it.
 

metalslimer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,558
People really need to calm down and stop projecting their panic attacks into this thread. Otherwise you might as well just say yes Trump is not leaving and we are doomed to fascism in America. Ok....now what?
 

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
23,810
Off topic:


www.reuters.com

New Zealand PM Ardern's ratings sky high ahead of election

New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern's party raced ahead of rivals in the latest opinion poll, putting the charismatic 40-year-old leader on track for a comfortable victory in the elections in September.

Ardern has consistently polled ahead of her rivals and her popularity has risen further this year as she won global praise for her leadership during the COVID-19 pandemic.
 

Deleted member 17092

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
20,360
Not having the ability to pass laws when they have the presidency stimys there power significantly.

The enough with the OT worthy takes

K fine, keep underestimating what's happening. It's the same thing as 16 except now it's actually gestapo in the streets and it's still "OT takes" and stop with the alarmism. I'm alarmed for a reason, was then too.
 

Deleted member 17092

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
20,360
People really need to calm down and stop projecting their panic attacks into this thread. Otherwise you might as well just say yes Trump is not leaving and we are doomed to fascism in America. Ok....now what?

It's not a panic attack to point out an obvious course towards facism. Sorry. Like it's already happened elsewhere literally right next to the old facist hotspots. We've been very close to it before too. The old "it won't happen here." And it's not, "now what?" It's do everything you can to stop it. Minimizing it isn't helpful in the slightest.
 

metalslimer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,558
It's not a panic attack to point out an obvious course towards facism. Sorry. Like it's already happened elsewhere. The old "it won't happen here." And it's not, "now what?" It's do everything you can to stop it. Minimizing it isn't helpful in the slightest.

Ok please tell us what you think we should do if you expect Trump and republicans to ignore the election results? Are we supposed to start protesting right now? Stock up on supplies? You are the one who is not being particularly helpful here.
 

Slatsunus

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,194
It's not a panic attack to point out an obvious course towards facism. Sorry. Like it's already happened elsewhere. The old "it won't happen here." And it's not, "now what?" It's do everything you can to stop it. Minimizing it isn't helpful in the slightest.
Declaring there gonna dismantle the house is absolutely projecting a panic attack.
 
Sure, it might be bigger and more organized than what we saw in 16, which was also obviously stolen. Given the willingness of police and NG to gas civilians do you think that will change the outcome if they were to pull off an even more obvious coup? Trump is gonna step down? 25th? What do you think will happen other than an even more villainous police state if they were to do it? They could disband the house and get away with it.
There was no 'coup' in 2016. Trump won the votes he did, for worse or worse.

How exactly would Trump disband the House and get away with it?

It's not a panic attack to point out an obvious course towards facism. Sorry. Like it's already happened elsewhere. The old "it won't happen here." And it's not, "now what?" It's do everything you can to stop it. Minimizing it isn't helpful in the slightest.
Your argument is basically "Trump is now an all-powerful dictator already and nothing can stop him".
 

SwordsmanofS

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,451
People really need to calm down and stop projecting their panic attacks into this thread. Otherwise you might as well just say yes Trump is not leaving and we are doomed to fascism in America. Ok....now what?
I know right? I get the feeling all of this panic posting is people looking to latch onto something to justify not being positive about what all of the polls and popular opinions on the ground say about which way the wind is blowing. Or to justify being pessimistic despite all data to the contrary about the election in November.
 

Basileus777

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,198
New Jersey
I know right? I get the feeling all of this panic posting is people looking to latch onto something to justify not being positive about what all of the polls and popular opinions on the ground say about which way the wind is blowing. Or to justify being pessimistic despite all data to the contrary about the election in November.
Yep. We're not your therapist.

We are in dark times, but there still needs to be a filter between your panic laden thoughts and what you are posting here. Keep your stream of consciousness doomsaying in your social media feed.
 

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
23,810




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Deleted member 17092

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
20,360
I guess I feel like state leaders where DHS forces are doing this are not doing enough. Organize and petition them to do more. I also feel like given all of this chatter and literal statements from Trump himself, the DNC and Biden need to organize a comprehensive multipoint plan to combat such a scenario.

Do we have anything other than Biden reportedly talking to the military and them saying they have his back in some kind of handshake agreement?

Like where is the contingency plan?

It's really not a panic attack. It's just lots of leaders talking about lifetime terms and delegitmizing elections turns into reality. There is recent precedent for it. I don't understand why folks just brush it off like it can't happen.

Just would like to see more, and I don't see me being concerned about an even bigger power grab needs to be so dogpiled. These concerns are legitimate and it's not just random forum posters with these concerns, but former government officials, former armed forces and brass, well respected journalists, etc. The alarm bells are blaring.

On top of all of this we have a massive, surging pandemic that will not be contained within 3 mos and it's delusional to think otherwise and that it will not have an effect on the elections.
 
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Ithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,372
Off topic:


www.reuters.com

New Zealand PM Ardern's ratings sky high ahead of election

New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern's party raced ahead of rivals in the latest opinion poll, putting the charismatic 40-year-old leader on track for a comfortable victory in the elections in September.

Ardern has consistently polled ahead of her rivals and her popularity has risen further this year as she won global praise for her leadership during the COVID-19 pandemic.

New Zealand crushed it with COVID, no surprise.
 

MrHedin

Member
Dec 7, 2018
6,811
I guess I feel like state leaders where DHS forces are doing this are not doing enough. Organize and petition them to do more. I also feel like given all of this chatter and literal statements from Trump himself, the DNC and Biden need to organize a comprehensive multipoint plan to combat such a scenario.

Do we have anything other than Biden reportedly talking to the military and them saying they have his back in some kind of handshake agreement?

Like where is the contingency plan?

It's really not a panic attack. It's just lots of leaders talking about lifetime terms and delegitmizing elections turns into reality. There is recent precedent for it. I don't understand why folks just brush it off like it can't happen.

Just would like to see more, and I don't see me being concerned about an even bigger power grab needs to be so dogpiled. These concerns are legitimate and it's not just random forum posters with these concerns, but former government officials, former armed forces and brass, well respected journalists, etc. The alarm bells are blaring.

On top of all of this we have a massive, surging pandemic that will not be contained within 3 mos and it's delusional to think otherwise and that it will not have an effect on the elections.

I'm sorry but is panicking for no rational reason. I get the irrational fear of thinking Trump will not go quietly in the night but he will go. Yes he will yell about the elections being rigged and make the transition difficult but in the end he will be gone. There is not a single thing he can do about that despite all of the worrying. The Constitution is crystal clear about term limits, it is not something that can even be left up for interpretation. I am many times more confident that Trump really doesn't want to be President again and just wants to go away to Mar-a-largo to golf all day and be a wannabe GOP kingmaker than him really trying to stay in power.

Just take a deep breath and walk a few dozen steps away from the ledge.
 

Deleted member 17092

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
20,360

I'm sorry but is panicking for no rational reason. I get the irrational fear of thinking Trump will not go quietly in the night but he will go. Yes he will yell about the elections being rigged and make the transition difficult but in the end he will be gone. There is not a single thing he can do about that despite all of the worrying. The Constitution is crystal clear about term limits, it is not something that can even be left up for interpretation. I am many times more confident that Trump really doesn't want to be President again and just wants to go away to Mar-a-largo to golf all day and be a wannabe GOP kingmaker than him really trying to stay in power.

Just take a deep breath and walk a few dozen steps away from the ledge.

Not at the ledge but thanks. Have a good night.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,927
I've maintained that, for me personally, the bigger fear isn't that Trump won't leave office...It's the shit he'll do to screw things up in those three months.
 

Deleted member 17092

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Oct 27, 2017
20,360
There's recent precedent in the US for what you're talking about? Links pls

I think there is recent precedent is the US with the rampant norm squashing in a plethora of areas and also sending in federal troops unasked and unneeded, but no I'm pointing to other fascist/dictatorial power grabs in other nations, and I don't think we are immune from it. It's like some kind of American exceptionalism that frankly doesn't exist.
 

thefro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,996
If it comes down to it, in an scenario where Trump obviously lost it's not tenable for them to hold NYC/DC without the army.

Heck, the DC Police would probably roll the Border Patrol goon squad pretty easily.
 

Ithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,372
I expect Trump to cry and whine about how it was rigged, but that doesn't mean he would actually attempt to do anything about it. Now his rhetoric alone may cause serious consequences, but as far as him attempting to remain in office or overturn the election, I think it's more likely he just screeches about it on twitter and how unfairly he's been treated, til he's booted out in January, without actually doing anything but talk big.

And plenty of pardons of course. But he may just give up on any semblance of pretending to work and fuck off to golf for those months.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,927
I expect Trump to cry and whine about how it was rigged, but that doesn't mean he would actually attempt to do anything about it. Now his rhetoric alone may cause serious consequences, but as far as him attempting to remain in office or overturn the election, I think it's more likely he just screeches about it on twitter and how unfairly he's been treated, til he's booted out in January, without actually doing anything but talk big.

And plenty of pardons of course. But he may just give up on any semblance of pretending to work and fuck off to golf for those months.

I also imagine he's going to be completely absent from the transition process, if not actively try to sabotage it.

(Another plus for Democratic nominee being the VP from the previous administration.)
 

MarioW

PikPok
Verified
Nov 5, 2017
1,155
New Zealand
New Zealand crushed it with COVID, no surprise.

It's actually been an interesting time for the country here. The whole situation I think has generally made citizens more compassionate and supportive of each other, more so than we already were. Arden and Labour will have strong support to continue with progressive policies over their next term.
 

XMonkey

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,827
Our elections are not counted and certified by the states and the Electoral College by willy-nilly norms. The process is clearly enumerated.

The weekly panic is beyond the pale.
 

Antrax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,270
I think what is happening is that people are realizing there literally isn't a viable enforcement mechanism to remove someone from office if the people tasked with doing with the enforcing actively prefer the GOP keep their offices. Say you have 2 senators showing up to the job, who do you think is going to be kicked out of the building if they protest? They won't kick out the GOP incumbent.

And yeah if the argument is "well that doesn't matter because some words on some paper say they no longer hold the office blah blah blah" well, who is still literally sitted in that seat handling all the official business? Who turns all that over? What staff does that? If there is no transition of power then it literally doesn't happen regardless of what the law says. Oh then take it to the courts. At that point it's too late.

Our govt is incredibly detailed and inefficient in a variety of ways. Do you think some clerk in DC who processes paychecks for Senators is willing to put themselves or their family in jeopardy if they decide to keep paying people that try to stay past their term? I do not. Sure, some dipshit like Trump or his slack-jawed kids might think "what if I don't leave?" But the guy that pilots Air Force One is in a far more vulnerable position. There's zero chance that such a move would last more than 24 hours (I'd really say like an hour) because of the sheer number of employees who wouldn't be comfortable going along with it.

What you're talking about is a civil war, and it's really hard to convince people who aren't genuinely against a rope to fight in a war. Nobody processing payments, reimbursements, office requests, etc... is ready to die for Donald fucking Trump.

They could disband the house and get away with it.

They could've already done this. It's not worth entertaining. The Constitution we have is pretty stacked in their favor, and they're not interested in essentially forming a new govt to avoid Nancy Pelosi.
 
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