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Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,912
Kasich speaking at the convention is pretty gross. I understand the political calculus, but at some point you have to draw a line in the sand. For the people that are okay with this, where is that line? For example, if Bush wanted to speak at the convention for Biden, would people accept that because it's good political points and shows he can cross the isle?
Well, Bush would probably not be the best person to speak at the convention, given his own brother did not want to carry his baggage on his failed presidential campaign.

Biden is running on a unity platform and "restoring the soul of the nation." He will be the President of Republicans as well, and though they may disagree, it behooves his message to demonstrate an ability to bring people together across political aisles for the betterment of the country.

This is what always frustrated me. 50% of the electorate isn't going to just disappear because we want them to.
 

shiba5

I shed
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
15,784


Why is the president bringing back coronavirus briefings? "I was doing them and we had a lot of people watching, record numbers watching in the history of cable television, and there's never been anything like it."

It's going to be a litany of grievances and nonstop whining.
 

studyguy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,282




So unmarked militia coming to a city near you soon.
Looks like Portland was a trial balloon and we didn't reply with enough force.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,729
Chicago is .... going to be tricky for CBP to be involved at least I think. Or is it ~100 miles from Canada?
 

Soul Skater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,201
It's also probably Kasich realizing Biden might be his only chance to get any sort of job. I can imagine him getting appointed to something. Biden already committed to appointing republicans in his cabinet
 

Dr. Feel Good

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,996
Isn't July 24th the deadline for Warren to be able to be VP and not risk her seat to the GOP? I don't think she's going to make the ticket if so.
 

Deleted member 31199

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 5, 2017
1,288
I am surprised at the Kasich thing. I guess you have to pull out all the stops and I think Biden is probably a lot more conservative than he would like us to believe. Whatever works...
 

Deleted member 31199

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 5, 2017
1,288
You have got to be kidding me.

So you would rather have him speaking against Biden? I mean I don't particularly love Kasich but if he can help, I am for it. I want Trump out as much as you do if not more. I hated Hillary Clinton but still went for her because she was lesser of two evils.

Kamala Harris (your avatar) was pretty stiff as a prosecutor and with her as a possibility for VP, we are supposed to forget that?
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,053
I am surprised at the Kasich thing. I guess you have to pull out all the stops and I think Biden is probably a lot more conservative than he would like us to believe. Whatever works...

Yes, why on Earth would Biden ever want to meet to get the endorsement of a massively popular public figure from a super important swing state? It doesn't make any sense at all unless Biden is secretly Republican, or something, right?

RIGHT?

Really, white suburbanites that flipped from being Republicans gave Democrats the House in 2018, and pushed Biden to a total blowout primary (rather than just a massive win), and are the key to winning a whole swatch of swing states in 2020. There's not enough room to grow in votes or turnout in urban centers, so Democrats need to appeal to suburban and rural voters.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,970
Does anyone even give a shit about Trump's coronavirus briefings? You get zero (0) information from them because he's never going to legislate.

The point of the briefing is for the person in charge to educate the population on the current situation, future measures to be implemented or lifted and a reminder of current and future restrictions.
 

schuelma

Member
Oct 24, 2017
5,901
Yes, why on Earth would Biden ever want to meet to get the endorsement of a massively popular public figure from a super important swing state? It doesn't make any sense at all unless Biden is secretly Republican, or something, right?

RIGHT?

Really, white suburbanites that flipped from being Republicans gave Democrats the House in 2018, and pushed Biden to a total blowout primary (rather than just a massive win), and are the key to winning a whole swatch of swing states in 2020. There's not enough room to grow in votes or turnout in urban centers, so Democrats need to appeal to suburban and rural voters.

Kasich was also pretty popular in Michigan- 24%, tied with Cruz for 2nd in the 2016 primary.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,729
Kasich isn't a judgment on Biden's platform, or on how conservative Biden is. It's a judgment that between the two candidates, Biden is the better one for the survival and advancement of America.

Pretty clear-cut. Unless you think Biden is both a socialist (Bernie endorsement) and a Republican (Kasich endorsement).
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,912
So you would rather have him speaking against Biden? I mean I don't particularly love Kasich but if he can help, I am for it. I want Trump out as much as you do if not more. I hated Hillary Clinton but still went for her because she was lesser of two evils.

Kamala Harris (your avatar) was pretty stiff as a prosecutor and with her as a possibility for VP, we are supposed to forget that?
I think you misunderstood his post...
 

Zona

Member
Oct 27, 2017
461
Chicago is .... going to be tricky for CBP to be involved at least I think. Or is it ~100 miles from Canada?
NBV_Border_Map.jpg
 

NookSports

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,209
Yes, why on Earth would Biden ever want to meet to get the endorsement of a massively popular public figure from a super important swing state? It doesn't make any sense at all unless Biden is secretly Republican, or something, right?

RIGHT?

Really, white suburbanites that flipped from being Republicans gave Democrats the House in 2018, and pushed Biden to a total blowout primary (rather than just a massive win), and are the key to winning a whole swatch of swing states in 2020. There's not enough room to grow in votes or turnout in urban centers, so Democrats need to appeal to suburban and rural voters.

To put an even finer point on this – there was a permission structure on 2016 created by republicans similarly "respectful" like John Kasich that gave a bunch of people an excuse to not feel shitty for voting for Trump. Taking away more and more of that permission structure is necessary to ensure that Republicans don't "come back home" like they have in the past
 

lush

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,803
Knoxville, TN
The more Trump is in front of the cameras the better. The daily briefings are what tanked his polling so much to begin with. Old people are sitting at home with nothing else to do but watch this clown flail. We all know it will just end up being an airing of grievances mixed with campaign shit anyways. I've been saying it for a while but this election is so baked in at this point, no way he can away anyone at this point outside of the embarrassed Republicans who were always going to vote for him.

How legal is this DHS operation with unmarked Federal agents in military gear yanking people off the streets into unmarked rental vehicles? It's only a matter of time until someone tries to stand their ground on this shit. I imagine that's the intent but yikes, this could end very badly. Note he went right down the list of dogwhistles.
 
Appointee should be put in place by the department, or someone with the qualified requirements.

Not farmer bob
The Constitution vests the appointment of heads of the executive departments in the president.

In any case, Wolf is in fact a Senate-confirmed official, as Under Secretary, so he has been approved for the position that put him in line to be acting Secretary.
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
So you would rather have him speaking against Biden? I mean I don't particularly love Kasich but if he can help, I am for it. I want Trump out as much as you do if not more. I hated Hillary Clinton but still went for her because she was lesser of two evils.

Kamala Harris (your avatar) was pretty stiff as a prosecutor and with her as a possibility for VP, we are supposed to forget that?
Sorry, I misinterpreted your post - I thought you were suggesting that Kasich endorsing Biden was a bad thing because it proved that Biden was more conservative and couldn't be trusted. Apologies if that wasn't your point.
 
Oct 30, 2017
2,365
Chicago is .... going to be tricky for CBP to be involved at least I think. Or is it ~100 miles from Canada?
Federal Marshals don't have that restriction. I was under the impression it was Federal Marshals they used in Portland, under the guise of "protecting federal buildings." For cities within 100 miles of a border though, I wholly expect CBP and ICE Rent-a-cops to be used in full force.
 

Hindl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,668
If I had polling in Texas that showed Bush would swing the vote there 2 or 3% it would absolutely be worth having him speak. The real question is how much voters are persuaded by public endorsements anymore.
A) is the person only going to be exclusively discussing the issues you agree with, and won't be bringing up, say, anti-LGBT stuff or union-busting

B) do you sincerely expect this will help you get some certain helpful goal eg winning Ohio, forcing the GOP to waste money in Ohio, etc; or at least doesn't hurt your goals.

I think it is reasonable to suspect that Kasich at the convention does meet both criteria, while, say, Bernie getting Joe Rogan's endorsement generally met A but wasn't particularly helpful on B. I believe Republicans generally though Zell Miller at the 2004 GOP convention met both, and also with Joe Lieberman speaking at the 2008 GOP convention.
The line would be Biden making policy concessions to never-Trump Republicans in exchange for endorsements. As long as that doesn't happen and there's the chance it draws reluctant Republican voters away from Trump, I don't care who they bring out to continue sapping percentage points from Trump or at least force him to spend money to avoid sinking further.
Well, Bush would probably not be the best person to speak at the convention, given his own brother did not want to carry his baggage on his failed presidential campaign.

Biden is running on a unity platform and "restoring the soul of the nation." He will be the President of Republicans as well, and though they may disagree, it behooves his message to demonstrate an ability to bring people together across political aisles for the betterment of the country.

This is what always frustrated me. 50% of the electorate isn't going to just disappear because we want them to.
I appreciate these responses but here's my concern. Not to take anything for granted, but it's looking likely that Biden will win the election pretty convincingly. And while he has pretty solid support overall from the progressive wing of the party, he's also clearly going for the suburbanite voters that are more center and right leaning. And in this election he doesn't really have to do anything other than not shit himself to win their vote. He can still have a more left leaning platform and attract these voters because he's not Trump

But looking ahead, it's pretty unlikely the Trump wing of the GOP will disappear, and they may keep trying to push the party to outright ethno-nationalism. I think a lot of people here have thought that this will lead to sustained losses until we get back to a "traditional" GOP that's economically conservative but more socially liberal. And then the two parties would become those voters and some more conservative current Democratic voters (Manchin, etc) and some of the more center leaning democrats combining with the emerging progressive wing to be the new Democratic Party.

My worry is instead this could lead to the Democratic party looking to take over the middle of the political spectrum, grabbing all those former Republicans and combining it with the more technocratic/center wing of the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party would look back on this election and see all the support they got from the suburbanites and modify their platform to appeal to them, since simply being "Not Trump" won't be enough for their vote anymore. The left would really have nowhere to go, and the Democratic Party wouldn't really be incentivized to support progressive policy because they already have current established democrats plus all of the voters turned off from the current nationalistic, white supremacist GOP.

Essentially, my point is right now, Biden can accept endorsements and whatever from these Republicans to go after suburban/swing voters without making any policy concessions now. But in the future, when the GOP is still this ethno-nationalist party but with a more competent candidate who can appeal to those swing voters with dogwhistles, what's to stop Biden/Democrats from modifying their platform rightward to keep these voters? What's the incentive to continue pushing more progressive policies and risk losing these votes for an unreliable progressive vote? Sorry if this is a bit all over the place but hopefully my point comes across. His platform does have a lot of progress, but my worry is that future elections will slide back rightward instead of continuing left. He can get away with a more progressive platform because of who he's running against, but what will be the platform when he's running a tighter race and has to make a decision to appeal explicitly to the progressive wing or center/swing voters?
 

Polyh3dron

Prophet of Regret
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,860
Kasich speaking at the convention is pretty gross. I understand the political calculus, but at some point you have to draw a line in the sand. For the people that are okay with this, where is that line? For example, if Bush wanted to speak at the convention for Biden, would people accept that because it's good political points and shows he can cross the isle?
We already know where that line in the sand is and it's an endorsement from Joe Rogan.
 
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Tamanon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,729
Federal Marshals don't have that restriction. I was under the impression it was Federal Marshals they used in Portland, under the guise of "protecting federal buildings." For cities within 100 miles of a border though, I wholly expect CBP and ICE Rent-a-cops to be used in full force.

From what I read, it was a combination. CBP and ICE were involved too. It's just a goddamn mess.
 

Wraith

Member
Jun 28, 2018
8,892
This was a story from Friday evening; first I noticed it was this morning.

A proposed anti-trans rule would let homeless shelters judge who's a woman (Vox)
The Housing and Urban Development proposal instructs shelters to try to spot trans women by height, facial hair, and Adam's apples.
The rule's language, according to the leaked text, states that single-sex shelter staff "may determine an individual's sex based on a good faith belief that an individual seeking access to the temporary, emergency shelters is not of the sex, as defined in the single-sex facility's policy, which the facility accommodates."

In order to do this, HUD will allow shelter staff to take into account "factors such as height, the presence (but not the absence) of facial hair, the presence of an Adam's apple, and other physical characteristics which, when considered together, are indicative of a person's biological sex."

In essence, the proposed rule encourages women's-only shelter staff to use a visual appraisal of a woman's appearance to judge whether that person is woman enough to use the facility.

If a shelter operator judges a homeless woman's appearance to not fit what they believe is her assigned sex at birth, they would then be allowed to ask for proof of that person's sex before housing her in the women's facility.
 

BoboBrazil

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,765
Doesnt Tuberville have, like, a double digit lead over Jones? It's pretty much over.
If Democrats vote he will win and this helps alot of Democrats vote. It seems like the national Democratic Party wants to abandon him and not support him in this race, which is unfair to him after what he accomplished in 2018.
 

IggyChooChoo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,230
But looking ahead, it's pretty unlikely the Trump wing of the GOP will disappear, and they may keep trying to push the party to outright ethno-nationalism. I think a lot of people here have thought that this will lead to sustained losses until we get back to a "traditional" GOP that's economically conservative but more socially liberal. And then the two parties would become those voters and some more conservative current Democratic voters (Manchin, etc) and some of the more center leaning democrats combining with the emerging progressive wing to be the new Democratic Party.

My worry is instead this could lead to the Democratic party looking to take over the middle of the political spectrum, grabbing all those former Republicans and combining it with the more technocratic/center wing of the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party would look back on this election and see all the support they got from the suburbanites and modify their platform to appeal to them, since simply being "Not Trump" won't be enough for their vote anymore. The left would really have nowhere to go, and the Democratic Party wouldn't really be incentivized to support progressive policy because they already have current established democrats plus all of the voters turned off from the current nationalistic, white supremacist GOP.

Essentially, my point is right now, Biden can accept endorsements and whatever from these Republicans to go after suburban/swing voters without making any policy concessions now. But in the future, when the GOP is still this ethno-nationalist party but with a more competent candidate who can appeal to those swing voters with dogwhistles, what's to stop Biden/Democrats from modifying their platform rightward to keep these voters? What's the incentive to continue pushing more progressive policies and risk losing these votes for an unreliable progressive vote? Sorry if this is a bit all over the place but hopefully my point comes across. His platform does have a lot of progress, but my worry is that future elections will slide back rightward instead of continuing left. He can get away with a more progressive platform because of who he's running against, but what will be the platform when he's running a tighter race and has to make a decision to appeal explicitly to the progressive wing or center/swing voters?
I don't think you have to have any theory about the GOP at all to want to seize the middle of the electorate if you can. All you really need is to know that the undemocratic structure of the senate cripples any effort to pass legislation by a party that doesn't have 51 votes. And getting to 51 votes requires regularly getting votes from suburban moderate purple state morons — and not only when openly racist failure pigs like Trump are on the ballot, but in midterms and random off-years, too. So I'm for the farthest-left party that can actually get legislation through the senate, whatever that takes.
 

thuway

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,168
So tomorrow I am guessing Trump will be beating his chest over the vaccine available in September and take credit for it.


Should we be worried that his polling will improve and voters will once again forget everything?
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
27,956
The GOP stimulus bill (the top 1% already salivating at their all-time high stocks going even higher on more free money stimulus), includes liability protection for businesses and healthcare providers.

McConnell says, "We don't need an epidemic of lawsuits."

So they did nothing to stop an actual epidemic, but if it's an epidemic of lawsuits against businesses, that's where the line is.
 

Zona

Member
Oct 27, 2017
461
Contrary to that image, Canda does not own the entirety of the great lakes. With the exception of Lake Michigan, the US-Canada border straddles the great lakes.

With Lake Michigan being 100% in the US, Chicago is not within 100 miles of the international border.
It is however an international port, so it counts.
 
May 26, 2018
24,006
The GOP stimulus bill (the top 1% already salivating at their all-time high stocks going even higher on more free money stimulus), includes liability protection for businesses and healthcare providers.

McConnell says, "We don't need an epidemic of lawsuits."

So they did nothing to stop an actual epidemic, but if it's an epidemic of lawsuits against businesses, that's where the line is.

GOP dream is a country filled with pristine empty skyscrapers, apparently.

...kinda sounds like Mirror's Edge.
 

Drakeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,273
The GOP stimulus bill (the top 1% already salivating at their all-time high stocks going even higher on more free money stimulus), includes liability protection for businesses and healthcare providers.

McConnell says, "We don't need an epidemic of lawsuits."

So they did nothing to stop an actual epidemic, but if it's an epidemic of lawsuits against businesses, that's where the line is.

Whatever they can do to enrich their donors (and thereby enrich themselves). It's all about protecting corporations and their own political power at all costs. That's it, that's their ideology.
 

Deleted member 14312

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
220
So tomorrow I am guessing Trump will be beating his chest over the vaccine available in September and take credit for it.


Should we be worried that his polling will improve and voters will once again forget everything?
Even if the vaccine gets out this year, the economy is not going to improve overnight. The current lack of confidence in the administration will also make the widespread distribution of the vaccine difficult and thus negate the benefits of being vaccinated.

We don't live in a magical wonderland where important details like logistics and coordination are solved immediately just by wishing for it, and this particular administration has demonstrably proven that they wouldn't be able to handle such a massive scale operation like this effectively in order to reverse the trend.
 

schuelma

Member
Oct 24, 2017
5,901
Even if the vaccine gets out this year, the economy is not going to improve overnight. The current lack of confidence in the administration will also make the widespread distribution of the vaccine difficult and thus negate the benefits of being vaccinated.

We don't live in a magical wonderland where important details like logistics and coordination are solved immediately just by wishing for it, and this particular administration has demonstrably proven that they wouldn't be able to handle such a massive scale operation like this effectively in order to reverse the trend.

right. we can't even get testing chain of supply right after 5 months.
 
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