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Oct 25, 2017
5,846
Not to be a debby downer, but if that ever did happen the GOP would be forced to finally cater to Hispanics, and there is a strong conservative bend in some Hispanic communities. Right now the Dems have a big advantage because Republicans actively hate anyone that isn't white, but if they ever get their shit together they could make big inroads into the community.

From a purely political strategy standpoint, the GOP have just handed away millions of votes in a strategic disaster.

I mean, on paper I'd be a Republican voter, but that would require them to actually practice what they preach, and that seems vanishingly unlikely. The GOP has known they should be targeting for Hispanics for years now, has lost elections because of that underperformance, and has done absolutely nothing except double down in the other direction. I don't think they're gonna' suddenly figure out how to not alienate nonwhite voters, especially after the damage Trump especially has done to their brand.

Young Hispanics follow the wider trends of the younger generations. There's not really any future in trying to appeal to old hispanic voters.

Besides, conservatism in the US becoming more inclusive and less white sounds like a win to me.
 

RolandGunner

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,520
Looks like Joy Reid is going to take Chris Matthews spot. This is good news as supposedly Comcast was looking at bringing in some right-wing hosts to balance out Maddow and Hayes and appease Trump.

 

ezekial45

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,736
Just curious: did anyone here get an Epoch Times newspaper sent to their house? My parents had one delivered to their place. It wasn't by name, it just said current resident.

I've been seeing more ads from them lately. It's blatant propaganda, more potent than Fox News. I'm kinda worried at how hard they're pushing it this year.
 

Ogodei

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,256
Coruscant
Not to be a debby downer, but if that ever did happen the GOP would be forced to finally cater to Hispanics, and there is a strong conservative bend in some Hispanic communities. Right now the Dems have a big advantage because Republicans actively hate anyone that isn't white, but if they ever get their shit together they could make big inroads into the community.

From a purely political strategy standpoint, the GOP have just handed away millions of votes in a strategic disaster.

GOP has to overcome the White Nationalist element in the party first. Yes, Hispanics do not vote as a bloc and some of them self-identify as white over time to become Republican, but the more virulent the white nationalists the harder it is for Hispanic voters to justify that even internally.

There will come a time when the GOP is able to pivot but they have to sideline the Neo-Confederates to do it.
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
Just curious: did anyone here get an Epoch Times newspaper sent to their house? My parents had one delivered to their place. It wasn't by name, it just said current resident.

I've been seeing more ads from them lately. It's blatant propaganda, more potent than Fox News. I'm kinda worried at how hard they're pushing it this year.
Yeah.
I got random junk mail from them before, but I only recently started getting unsolicited print editions. It doesn't seem to be regular, I get one every now and then.
My friends in Canada got them too.
 

CrocM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,583
I think McGrath getting a serious push from a further left opponent in the primary increases her chances against McConnell.
 

IggyChooChoo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,230
Not to be a debby downer, but if that ever did happen the GOP would be forced to finally cater to Hispanics, and there is a strong conservative bend in some Hispanic communities. Right now the Dems have a big advantage because Republicans actively hate anyone that isn't white, but if they ever get their shit together they could make big inroads into the community.

From a purely political strategy standpoint, the GOP have just handed away millions of votes in a strategic disaster.
Pete Wilson and prop 187 was in 1994. Feels like California Republicans have been in the wilderness a long, long time without being able (or willing) to successfully reform themselves, Schwarzenegger notwithstanding. It is not their destiny, but it is certainly suggestive.
 

Antrax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,265
If the House issues a subpeona and it's ignored, the person in questions is held in contempt of congress and can be arrested and brought to the chamber by the Sergeant-at-Arms of the House.

So that, at least, seems outside the DOJ's jurisdiction.

This came up during the impeachment, but it's too Perry Mason-y compared to what would actually happen. The S-a-A could walk up to the White House and threaten to drag people out of there, but the FBI, DHS, ATF, Secret Service, etc... all answer to Barr (and by extension, Trump). There's no universe where he hands such a subpoena over at the gates of the White House and gets in. So either he walks away limply or dies in a shootout.
 

MetalMagus

Avenger
Oct 16, 2018
1,645
Maine
This came up during the impeachment, but it's too Perry Mason-y compared to what would actually happen. The S-a-A could walk up to the White House and threaten to drag people out of there, but the FBI, DHS, ATF, Secret Service, etc... all answer to Barr (and by extension, Trump). There's no universe where he hands such a subpoena over at the gates of the White House and gets in. So either he walks away limply or dies in a shootout.

True, while technically (and legally!) feasible, the reality just doesn't match up. We'd be looking at a legit Constitutional Crises as the Legislative and Executive branches would be in a high stakes game of chicken. Dems aren't willing to push things to the edge so close to the election, I only pray it's the correct path.
 

Antrax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,265
True, while technically (and legally!) feasible, the reality just doesn't match up. We'd be looking at a legit Constitutional Crises as the Legislative and Executive branches would be in a high stakes game of chicken. Dems aren't willing to push things to the edge so close to the election, I only pray it's the correct path.

The shootout part is mostly a joke, in that it's what would happen if such a person did attempt to forcibly enter the White House but anybody would be aware of that and wouldn't try it.

What's most likely is a bunch of people answer the door, say "hang on, let me take a look at this," they go back inside, and continue that until someone makes the right phone call to get the guy to go away. Likely that solution would be a court case and an injunction, and someone from DoJ hands the S-a-A a piece of paper that says "your paper is null until a judge rules and appeals are all made" and that's that.
 

SpitztheGreat

Member
May 16, 2019
2,877
If COVID numbers keep spiking in red and swing states, I wonder if Trump is going to try to bring back the daily press briefing. He's getting killed out there in the polls right now and that will bother him. Right now he reminds me of a cornered animal that is going to lash out. When he does, he'll only make things worse for himself.
 

Ithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,365
None of the people defending Albert Pike had ever heard of him before the statue came down.
 

CommodoreKong

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,694


My dad has a small business and reopened because he had to open again because of the government loans he took have to be used to pay his employees by a certain date or else the loans won't be forgiven and he would have to pay them back. The business is so slow its basically not worth it but he can't pay back the loans due to the lack of business so he had to open again. He doesn't know what's going to happen when those loans run out. I'm sure a large number of small businesses are in the same situation and once the government loans run out many will close their doors for good.
 

RussTC3

Banned
Nov 28, 2018
1,878


Right now...he be pretty fucked.


LIke you just got drafted to the Jacksonville Jaguars levels of fucked.

For anyone worried about the undecideds in that poll:

So with the Don't Know / No Opinion number at a fairly high 9%, I decided to 'unskew' the poll a little bit by 'pushing' those who chose that option. I did that by using party identification within that group (for anyone curious, this brings the total number down 7 points to 2 instead of 9). It didn't really change the final margin all that much:

Biden - 53%
Trump - 40%

When do pollsters typically switch to Likely voter models?
 
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Antrax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,265
My dad has a small business and reopened because he had to open again because of the government loans he took have to be used to pay his employees by a certain date or else the loans won't be forgiven and he would have to pay them back. The business is so slow its basically not worth it but he can't pay back the loans due to the lack of business so he had to open again. He doesn't know what's going to happen when those loans run out. I'm sure a large number of small businesses are in the same situation and once the government loans run out many will close their doors for good.

Yeah, the "recovery" we've seen is super inflated. It's a false prop-up job with the hope that maybe businesses/investors would jump in and hand out cash to keep it going. Naturally, they'd all rather the govt do it so that's not happening. If another stimulus bill isn't passed and signed (at least equal to the previous one), then July and August are going to be brutal.

I said this a few months ago, but the way to think about COVID and the economy is to go back to January and February. Consider each sector of the economy, and ask them how much of a haircut they can afford to take and stay in business. Then come back to the present day and see where demand for each of those sectors is sitting. Actual demand, not false hopes ("people are dying to get back into restaurants so demand is massive!"). Whatever the drop off is in demand from Jan to now, see how that stacks up against the revenue reductions you found in step 1.

That's what killed me about all those small business people who were protesting shutdown orders. Your customers don't all want to come back if there's a chance of catching COVID! So the whole idea from the GOP that the economy is just itching to get back to January is ridiculous. Their options are govt bailouts or bankruptcy (unless they're fortunate enough to be able to handle the haircut).
 

fragamemnon

Member
Nov 30, 2017
6,812
I think McGrath getting a serious push from a further left opponent in the primary increases her chances against McConnell.

I think it's a bigger tell that she couldn't consolidate support, both grassroots and institutionally, so that the primary was kind of a walk for her.

My dad has a small business and reopened because he had to open again because of the government loans he took have to be used to pay his employees by a certain date or else the loans won't be forgiven and he would have to pay them back. The business is so slow its basically not worth it but he can't pay back the loans due to the lack of business so he had to open again. He doesn't know what's going to happen when those loans run out. I'm sure a large number of small businesses are in the same situation and once the government loans run out many will close their doors for good.

It was always the case that there was going to be businesses that closed down almost immediately and businesses that simply can't operate on pandemic level traffic + depression unemployment and close three to six months after the lockdowns started.

The reality is that we needed to throw money at the businesses, owners, and employees to stuff them in a sort of time travel machine where they could stay closed, and not reopen until the business environment supported their existence once again.
 

MetalMagus

Avenger
Oct 16, 2018
1,645
Maine
I'm trying to find the Our Dumb Century storyline where Nixon and Agnew are on the run from the Federal Marshals but my google-fu is failing me.

That's one of my favorites

ti0tzhuwsvs9pnaai46p.jpg


from https://www.theonion.com/july-10-1974-1819587585
 

RussTC3

Banned
Nov 28, 2018
1,878
Fwiw on this 24th day of June, I decided to take the poll averages from 538 and apply them to a map at 270toWin using the following measures*:
Toss-up: 0-2.99%
Leans: 3-4.99%
Likely: 5-9.99%
Safe: 10+%

wL9nz


*Any state that I couldn't find polling for is assigned Safe 2016 Party. ME-CD2 and NE-CD2 I set as Toss-ups.

And
here's what happens when you 'tilt' the toss-up's to the poll leader.
 
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Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
Fwiw on this 24th day of June, I decided to take the poll averages from 538 and apply them to a map at 270toWin using the following measures*:
Toss Up: 0-2.99%
Leaning: 3-4.99%
Likely: 5-9.99%
Safe: 10+%

wL9nz


*Any state that I couldn't find polling for is assigned Safe 2016 Party. ME-CD2 and NE-CD2 I set as Toss Ups.
lol that fucking Arkansas poll.
 

Joeytj

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,673
lol that fucking Arkansas poll.

That got me thinking about Bill Clinton's 1992 victory in parts of the South, but not all. His map was weird by 2000s standards, but I think still weird by late 20th Century standards.

I get that rural and blue collar whites in Arkansas, Missouri, Tennessee, Kentucky, etc, are different from deep south whites in some ways, and it helped that Bubba was the Governor of Arkansas, but is there still any difference between the white demographics in southern Bill Clinton states and the deep south States? Is it the baptist/evangelical thing? Or just a racist thing from the times of the Confederacy? Why was Carter able to win the deep south but not BIll?

Anyway, my point is: maybe there are still some differences in Arkansas that makes it friendly to Biden than Alabama and WV.
 

Deleted member 17092

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
20,360
Gah just went into a literal den of libertarians. Sucked hard. Maybe made some headway with one dude. Overall they suck.
 

Terra Torment

Banned
Jan 4, 2020
840
Fwiw on this 24th day of June, I decided to take the poll averages from 538 and apply them to a map at 270toWin using the following measures*:
Toss-up: 0-2.99%
Leans: 3-4.99%
Likely: 5-9.99%
Safe: 10+%

wL9nz


*Any state that I couldn't find polling for is assigned Safe 2016 Party. ME-CD2 and NE-CD2 I set as Toss-ups.

And
here's what happens when you 'tilt' the toss-up's to the poll leader.
Looks good but don't get too cocky. Anything can happen. This virus is going to have unpredictable effects in November and the Republicans will be suppressing votes as hard as they can get away with.
 

Naijaboy

The Fallen
Mar 13, 2018
15,239
I see Texas going more of the way of California than Florida. Texas doesn't have a Cuban population equivalent that is reliably Republican. And there's a higher floor of potential voters here. The rural vote is nearly maxed out while the cities have further to fall for Republicans.
 

Terra Torment

Banned
Jan 4, 2020
840
The shootout part is mostly a joke, in that it's what would happen if such a person did attempt to forcibly enter the White House but anybody would be aware of that and wouldn't try it.

What's most likely is a bunch of people answer the door, say "hang on, let me take a look at this," they go back inside, and continue that until someone makes the right phone call to get the guy to go away. Likely that solution would be a court case and an injunction, and someone from DoJ hands the S-a-A a piece of paper that says "your paper is null until a judge rules and appeals are all made" and that's that.
I know it has been established that the president is de facto above the law while president but can he be retroactively stripped of his pension and post presidential benefits when he is out of office?
 

CrabDust

Member
Nov 16, 2017
1,257


In case you need another reason to be infuriated before you go to bed. This is the only time I can remember agreeing with Trump - this is what a traitor looks and sounds like.
 

Dr. Feel Good

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,996
"The reason I did not testify is because of how house democrats treated house republicans."

What fucking logic is that? He says they approached it as a partisan issue on the left yet sticking your head in the sand because they were mean makes you not partisan? And these people are considered the smartest people in the world. Goes to show you how dumb the average politician is.
 

sacrament

Banned
Dec 16, 2019
2,119
Looks good but don't get too cocky. Anything can happen. This virus is going to have unpredictable effects in November and the Republicans will be suppressing votes as hard as they can get away with.

I worry about fingers on scale, but jeez, why do people think Democrats are these non-voting flakes... We hand wring, but we vote when it matters. They out voted Trump last time too, but you know - EC. Anyways... I think we can be happy, be optimistic, AND vote. It's not complacency - it's confidence and when you are on the right side of history it's confidence you should feel.
 

CrabDust

Member
Nov 16, 2017
1,257
"The reason I did not testify is because of how house democrats treated house republicans."

What fucking logic is that? He says they approached it as a partisan issue on the left yet sticking your head in the sand because they were mean makes you not partisan? And these people are considered the smartest people in the world. Goes to show you how dumb the average politician is.
His response is just the laziest script and that's probably enough unfortunately. Colbert has the right line of questioning here, but Bolton's a robot and he's adhering to the #1 rule for these crooks: answer the question you wish you were asked.
 

Brinbe

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
58,030
Terana
yep. and people were actually worried about pa lol. told y'all, ppl absolutely love biden there. same with the midwest too.

good reminder that 2020 isn't 2016 and joe biden, personality-wise, isn't hilary clinton.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,619
The World
I do believe that the white without college degree support that has deteriorated for Trump will come back to him eventually which is where the polls will become closer. As per the write-up

White voters without a degree, the linchpin of the president's winning coalition, back Mr. Trump by a 16-point margin in the battlegrounds, down from a 24-point margin in October and a 26-point one in the final polls of the last election. Despite that slide, Mr. Biden's support among white voters without a degree has increased by only one percentage point since October.

The white no college support hasn't gone to Biden from Trump, they will eventually go back to supporting Trump once election is closer IMO. But just winning them back won't help Trump when he is losing women by 19 and White College by 21 and more importantly losing Seniors.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,970
Yeah that 50 in PA really makes me pretty confident that Trump is dead in the water. Unless there's huge never before seen systemic polling error resulting from poll chasing, the erosion of support is super clear. White people being only +1 Trump in the NYT/Siena poll is a nightmare scenario for Republicans, can you imagine Joe Biden actually winning the white vote as a Democrat?

These polls are becoming like the polling from the Taiwan election. The pollsters over there aren't good but the polling was consistently showing a blow out that the real question was the size of the victory. I'm actually at the point I won't be surprised if the Democrats win the senate, I wouldn't put money on it but it would not surprise me a whole lot. Just like the Taiwan election, it seems like the Republicans are dismissing them as fake news since they're not really doing anything to change course.
 

ZAKU-RED

Member
Oct 27, 2017
360
That Wisconsin and Florida numbers are yikes worthy for Trump.

If he loses Florida that quickly he's done.
 
OP
OP
TheHunter

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774
And you all laughed when I said Biden could win by 10+.

WHERE ARE YOUR GODS NOW?!?
 

Jasper

Member
Mar 21, 2018
740
Netherlands
So with 6% undecided participants Public Policy Polling had Biden leading in NC by just 2%, while NYT with 11% undecided participants has him leading by 9%. How many 'undecided' are actually going to break for Trump? Can't imagine how after all this time you're finally going to be convinced Trump is an idiot, given the enormous amount of evidence already provided.
 
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