I think these polls are starting to show the vulnerability of his 35-45% foundation of support, but people still should definitely not expect them to remain like this. So much can change before November.
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US PoliEra 2020 |OT6| I will not be closing this thread when the second wave hits.
- Thread starter TheHunter
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And notice Meghan McCain twisting herself to give it the worst faith reading possible
Am I the only one who read that as his campaign reaching out to small town police departments who do have funding needs and its citizens (specifically those who don't feel like they're the 'bad eggs')?
I dunno, get very safe politician trying to reach every demographic.
Defund the police would have more support on a city by city basis than it would Federally, though. One of the largest issues I have currently is it seems local-level Democrats are somehow more conservative than their Federal counterparts. It should be the opposite! Progressives need to get more involved in local politics as it is ridiculous that people like De Blasio and Garcetti are mayors of the country's two largest cities.
The point is, it's not a difficult message to twist. Ugh, I'm not speaking up for McCain...now I need to go take a shower.
Looking for data here and not just takes:
yougov polling link
Tl;Dr: Cutting police funding has less than 20% support across all political affiliations
That exact conversation between Harris and McCain is why Biden gave the statement he did and why he doesn't want to get caught up in a meaningless conversation splitting hairs over the definition of what certain words mean
and also why McCain would vote for Biden but not Harris despite them not being any different on the issue
and also why McCain would vote for Biden but not Harris despite them not being any different on the issue
Seriously, just getting 8can'twait done in four years in 80% of police departments will require a massive undertaking of local, state, and federal resources and state and local governments are getting the mother of all tax revenue collapses dropped on them.
"JuSt FiGuRe It OuT" doesn't actually pay for hard things. Hard things are hard for a reason, and require resources and grit through setbacks to accomplish.
regarding progressive candidates, I'll leave this from the Data for Progress dude, who was speaking for the context of Congressional races but it's really about open-minded problem solvers at all levels, they just don't get backing because they don't meet litmus tests that get them money.
"JuSt FiGuRe It OuT" doesn't actually pay for hard things. Hard things are hard for a reason, and require resources and grit through setbacks to accomplish.
regarding progressive candidates, I'll leave this from the Data for Progress dude, who was speaking for the context of Congressional races but it's really about open-minded problem solvers at all levels, they just don't get backing because they don't meet litmus tests that get them money.
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The newest Biden thread is just further proof that such threads are basically pointless at the moment. Whenever Biden does not take the maximalist, most progressive stance on an issue he is excoriated for not being Bernie Sanders basically, and whenever he does make moves towards more progressive positions he is met with "I don't believe him." If you want meaningful police reform, or at least what can be done federally, then you must concede that Joe Biden needs to win in November. And in order to win he cannot take maximalist positions on issues that will turn off large numbers of voters. In the short term this can be deemed as moral cowardice, but in the long term it ensures that something might actually be done.
Because remember, the other guy in this election is the guy who had protesters gassed for a photo op and who was ranting about "dominating" and wanting to turn the military on people. That is your alternative.
Because remember, the other guy in this election is the guy who had protesters gassed for a photo op and who was ranting about "dominating" and wanting to turn the military on people. That is your alternative.
I don't know what it is about the liberal movements coming up with the dumbest political slogans even if they mean something else. Like Republicans never have a slogan that goes Tax the Poor even though that is what they want to do. What is worse is support for these slogans being used as a litmus test by areas of the online left.
Thank God we have Biden who will never fall for that and not someone else as the nominee.
Thank God we have Biden who will never fall for that and not someone else as the nominee.
A high crime rate/string of murders/violence, etc is probably the thing a typical mayor has the most to fear politically. A lot of the other issues fly under the rater.
Everything makes sense when you look at it that way.
It wasn't until fairly recently that voter bases got less elastic locally, and Dem-leaners/indies aren't as rigid as Republicans and will vote for "moderate Republicans" to be governor in a blue state, etc.
Progressives don't like Biden, so any instance of Biden failing to meet some progressive standard is obviously going to elicit a negative response from progressives. I don't really mind. Go ahead; get it out of your system.
I would rather they complain that he's not progressive enough than yell that he's a rapist and we're all rapist enablers for voting for him. Thank God we're past that.
I would rather they complain that he's not progressive enough than yell that he's a rapist and we're all rapist enablers for voting for him. Thank God we're past that.
Abrams seems more likely. Harris' record as a prosecutor is bad though however may be slightly overblown, however she can't erase her reputation as a cop so the damage is done.
The "cop" rep worked way more in the primary. Mostly because she let it. Not sure it has much power in the main event.
It's still the first thing brought up about her in online circles, to the point it's a meme. I'm not sure what Kamala brings to the table is worth a slight enthusiasm risk esp over Abrams who is from a swing state and not California.
I bet most of them had no intention of voting for anyone, then if Biden doesn't win they'll say it was his fault not theirs, while Trump continues his scorched earth policy to everything.
Liberals and Progressives tend to, or try to, be very direct about what it is that they want.
Conservatives have no issues being completely disingenuous with their focus-tested language and slogans if it gets them a win. It's how a massive de-regulation of polluters is called the Clean Air Act, your employer being to fire you at will for no cause is Right to Work, and anything that involves a massive increase in surveillance and security get's Freedom slapped on it.
If progressives could use doublespeak branding better then Defund the Police should be Fund our Communities. Abolish the Police might be Common Sense Civil Resources. I dunno, I'm just spitballing here - but you get the idea.
Experience, a bigger national profile, and a way better rep in offline circles. Which is more important.
Not going to argue with that, and Kamala is good in debates for sure. I still think Abrams is a better choice.
I think if anything that the primary season showed us is those online circles are relatively small and completely insular. People outside of those circles, which is the vast majority of the voting base, likely has no opinion about that part of her career.
I agree to an extent. Let them yell, and let them vote for him if they want, as I pretty much assume they won't vote anyway. They just need to realize out of all of their issues, this is likely the one mostly to see change if they actually bothered to engage with politics at the local level.
He should just drool some ice cream on a random zoom chat so they can spend a week dredging up that he's "clearly losing it". I like it when they help lower expectations that the GOP signal boosts out of dumb opportunism that Biden easily exceeds later, ty lower expectations.
There's a long time between now and August but even if Biden returns to a comfy +7/+8 mean then there's no way you risk an unforced error with Abrams.
As you insinuate, I think we're going to see the partisan divide solidify for local politics too. I don't care if it's for dog catcher, I can't vote for a Republican at any level because it's all a reflection of their support of Trump. They would have to do some much work to separate from Trump in both words and actions, that they would be better off running as a Democrat.
I worry that everyone is getting their hopes up too much for the change that we'll see from these protests. We've had great success and grabbed the moment, but revolutions require long-term efforts and coordination. 10+ days of large-scale protests are GREAT, but the police unions and inertia are in this for the long-haul. When we see polls that show that 20% of the population supports defunding the police, we can't let that be the end of the conversation. On one hand, don't be surprised that the number is 20%, this shit has only exploded to the forefront for most people in the last two weeks, it takes a LONG sustained effort to change a national mentality. But also, 20% isn't terrible, that's a base that you can build off of, so don't lose hope either.
Sometimes we all get so wrapped up in what we're watching that we forget that it was only 2 weeks ago today that George Floyd was murdered. Two weeks...that's all it has been. It feels like forever, but that's 2020 for you. All of us, but especially those of us that live too much of our lives online, need to re-calibrate our expectations and timelines for those expectations. I'm not saying that to discourage anyone, but rather to encourage everyone that we all need to be prepared to batten down the hatches and dig in for a war of attrition. Take your victories where you can, hope for the best, but be prepared for few breakthroughs in the near future. In November vote out the bastards you don't like, and then prepare to run yourself in 2021 or 2022 to be the change that you want to see.
Police reform is less confusing than defund the police, i thought they meant abolish the police until someone explained it to me.
The fact that 'abolish ICE!' was seen as a fringe position (even though it shouldn't be since ICE has only been a thing for <20 years and we did just fine without ICE prior to that) should tell you all you need to know about the political wisdom of adopting 'defund the police!' as a slogan.
If your slogan needs clarification, then it's not a very good slogan, is it?
I read a timely article on this just this morning: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/07/kamala-harris-biden-criminal-justice-reform-304534
Obviously the activists quoted in here can't speak for *all* activists, but this isn't the first such story I've read of Kamala meeting with activists directly and having productive conversations where their takeaway isn't more Kopmala memes.
@KFILE
https://twitter.com/KFILE/status/1270061866631532545
Trump called into CNN at the time and urged Romney not to apologize for the 47% comment, saying the media was making too big a deal out of it. https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1270060931243008000?s=21 …
14:35 - 8 Jun 2020
Walker is dumb, but:
Scott Walker @ScottWalker
Reform the police or defund the police? I pick reform.
What do you pick?
11:45 AM - Jun 8, 2020
Jonathan Martin @jmartNYT
Sign o the times news here is that this is the menu of options a former Repub governor is proposing.
https://twitter.com/scottwalker/status/1270019037792210944?s=21 …
1:47 PM - Jun 8, 2020
Steadman™ @AsteadWesley
It is a success of the movement that police reform is the scott walker position https://twitter.com/ScottWalker/status/1270019037792210944 …
2:27 PM - Jun 8, 2020
Reform the police or defund the police? I pick reform.
What do you pick?
11:45 AM - Jun 8, 2020
Jonathan Martin @jmartNYT
Sign o the times news here is that this is the menu of options a former Repub governor is proposing.
https://twitter.com/scottwalker/status/1270019037792210944?s=21 …
1:47 PM - Jun 8, 2020
Steadman™ @AsteadWesley
It is a success of the movement that police reform is the scott walker position https://twitter.com/ScottWalker/status/1270019037792210944 …
2:27 PM - Jun 8, 2020
People outright not even reading the Biden statement, then posting demanding things said in the statement. It's incredible.
The response has become Flanders-like in predictability and lack of nuance, I'll give it that -- even when it comes to charged and extremely important issues, to be sure.
It is, but the argument is "we've tried police reform, nothing's changed, we need to do more." hence abolish and defund. This is literally a case where there is no consensus because we can't agree on fundamental concepts - something exacerbated by bad faith actors who insist on painting things in the worst possible light (Fox and the right wing pundits).
It's so much fun to have the adults explain away the poop tossed by the bad half of the squad (referring to Omar's namedropped in the McCain video today).
Tlaib's Bernanake grilling of Jerome Powell where she literally didn't understand the Federal Reserve independence from fiscal policy was something.
Edit: Scott Walker not advocating for the abolishment of a public sector union given the chance tells you EVERYTHING you need to know about police unions, lol.
Tlaib's Bernanake grilling of Jerome Powell where she literally didn't understand the Federal Reserve independence from fiscal policy was something.
Edit: Scott Walker not advocating for the abolishment of a public sector union given the chance tells you EVERYTHING you need to know about police unions, lol.
Benjamin Crump, Esq. @AttorneyCrumpListening to one another is what will begin to heal America. That's just what VP @JoeBiden did with the family of #GeorgeFloyd – for more than an hour. He listened, heard their pain, and shared in their woe. That compassion meant the world to this grieving family.
2:49 PM - Jun 8, 2020
These are the same people that would rather stay at home and let Trump continue to make the lives of minorities a living hell.
I wouldn't waste my breath on them.
Messaging and bad faith arguments are the exact same issues people had with Obamacare. Mostly everyone can read the room and agrees that the police need some form of accountability. But "defunding the police" has already been heavily distorted by the right and moderates. So instead of "death panels and long wait lines" you have "zero police and complete lawlessness."
🤔
2:55 PM - Jun 8, 2020
Senator John Cornyn @JohnCornynEarlier today I spoke with George Floyd's family. I gave them my deepest condolences and offered to help however I can. But mostly I listened – it's critical now more than ever that we all take the time to listen.
I'm dedicated to rooting out racial injustices so no other family has to experience what George Floyd's family has. It will require bipartisan commitment across the country & listening to the voices of those who have been most affected is the first step – we must not fail to act.
I'm dedicated to rooting out racial injustices so no other family has to experience what George Floyd's family has. It will require bipartisan commitment across the country & listening to the voices of those who have been most affected is the first step – we must not fail to act.
2:55 PM - Jun 8, 2020
I'm not talking in the abstract, I'm talking about the actual federal programs that give money to police departments. I'm not sure that I'm familiar with every single one of those programs, but those that I do are all really really bad, and they're the biggest engine of both police militarization.
I think those programs need to be terminated.
More than anything else, my issue with the Biden statement is the stuff about many departments wanting to reform but needing money. A lot of stuff is policy changes, not something you need a ton of money to do. "Stop choking people" does not require a long and expensive training class. At the very least, he should have more in there about departments who will not change, like, for example, the ones publicly kicking the shit out of protesters asking them to be the slightest bit accountable.
It's not a great statement, and nobody has to act like it is. It won't sink the campaign to push him on this a bit.
It's not a great statement, and nobody has to act like it is. It won't sink the campaign to push him on this a bit.
I'm pretty sure his platform goes into a lot more detail than that statement.
Im struggling to see how they are strapped for cash when they literally dwarf other similar spending and services with their bloated budgets
Isn't it a general problem in politics?
Tax cuts. One side think its good and can vitalize the economy. The other side just say its enrichement of the rich. (just one extreme example.)
Etc
I think its a huge problem of the 2 party system of the US. There exists only black or white. Never grey. Because most politicians and news are almost ever in campaign mode or at least it seems they are. And to distinguish themselves from their compition its necessary to take the opposite view. So people can see and feel a difference even though in reality they might not be that big.
I was employing understatement. It's bad. Not campaign-endingly bad, but like, bad. Saying as much is not some crazy ass thing to do.
People saying "well, now I'm not voting for him" are... well, I would disagree with them, to put it mildly. But like, them's the breaks.
Then the statement fails to reference the necessary material from the platform.
FWIW, education is actually the biggest spend of most municipalities, it's just counted differently so it doesn't show up in those charts. But yeah, it's true, they already get a ton of money.
Ryan Struyk @ryanstruykApproval rating in June of election year via @CNN:
74% - Johnson '64
71% - Eisenhower '56
59% - Nixon '72
58% - Clinton '96
55% - Reagan '84
52% - Obama '12
49% - W Bush '04
45% - *Ford '76
38% - Trump '20
38% - *Carter '80
37% - *HW Bush '92
*lost re-election bid
74% - Johnson '64
71% - Eisenhower '56
59% - Nixon '72
58% - Clinton '96
55% - Reagan '84
52% - Obama '12
49% - W Bush '04
45% - *Ford '76
38% - Trump '20
38% - *Carter '80
37% - *HW Bush '92
*lost re-election bid
9:10 AM - Jun 8, 2020
- Status