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Ignatz Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,741
It also helps that Trump is showing his ass all the time and no longer has the benefit of being the new guy.

I've said it before... "Make America Great Again" was a great slogan for unknown Trump because it's a rorschach test. If you wanted to think Trump was going to revive the Rust Belt, it could mean that. If you thought it meant win the culture war, it could mean that. But now there's no ambiguity; it means the latter. Hence a hard swing from the GOP in the midterms. It's why I think there's hope for Ohio.
 

Casa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,551
Romney is 100% going to run again in '24 as the "return of the real Republicans" candidate. Question is, will all the Trumper's rally around him? Robert Costa of WaPo said last week that many GOP senators absolutely hate him for standing up to Trump.
 

Basileus777

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,206
New Jersey
I wanted to also post this earlier. The NBC national poll is good too, but this MI poll really stood out for me. Independents there abandoning Trump en masse is a big tsunami warning elsewhere.

The snapback has been intense to watch in Michigan. It started in 2018 with the midterms and Whitmer and it just keeps growing. And it's believable that it's not some sort of polling error, not like in 2016, because we already saw Biden doing great there in the primary against Bernie, which was before any of the current crisis we're in even happened.

Arizona looks to also be the other early wall to close for Trump in the EC. While the margin isn't as big for Biden, it has been consistent. Coupled with the McCains hating Trump, loving Biden, and Kelly's campaign, Trump's campaign is going to have to make a big decision whether or not to even try to win it.
They have to contest Arizona, there is no real path without it, not unless you think they could lose Arizona and still win Pennsylvania.
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,924


Michelle Boorstein @mboorstein

Mitt Romney, marching down Penn Ave towards the White House, with about 1000 mostly evangelical protesters. They're chanting "black lives matter!" and singing "This little light of mine" ⁦@MittRomney

9UykahS.jpg


5:20 PM - Jun 7, 2020


Edit: video


I hope Romney is able to help direct the future course of the Republican Party in the event of a Trump defeat. For the betterment of all of us.
 

Ithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,392
Romney is 100% going to run again in '24 as the "return of the real Republicans" candidate. Question is, will all the Trumper's rally around him? Robert Costa of WaPo said last week that many GOP senators absolutely hate him for standing up to Trump.
He'd be almost 80 by then. Yeah Biden is old but that's not going to be the norm.
 

EvilChameleon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,793
Ohio
I've said it before... "Make America Great Again" was a great slogan for unknown Trump because it's a rorschach test. If you wanted to think Trump was going to revive the Rust Belt, it could mean that. If you thought it meant win the culture war, it could mean that. But now there's no ambiguity; it means the latter. Hence a hard swing from the GOP in the midterms. It's why I think there's hope for Ohio.

And also, "Keep America Great" is not the best slogan to have at the moment. If this is great, then I don't want to keep it.
 

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
2024 GOP primaries:

Mitt Romney
Tom Cotton
Solid Snake
Kanye West
Donald Trump Jr.
Diamond/Silk joint ticket
 

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
23,829
Re: Slogan


Amid nationwide protests and a historic economic contraction, President Trump is running for reelection to "Keep America Great" — at least according to the hats he sells on his campaign website, the signs waved by his supporters and the television ads he's airing in key states.
But in recent weeks he has retreated to contradictory slogans with a less triumphant ring, repeatedly reviving his 2016 motto "Make America Great Again!" and trying out new catchphrases like "Transition to Greatness!" and "The Best Is Yet to Come," a Frank Sinatra lyric etched on the crooner's tombstone.
Phrases such as "Promises Made, Promise Kept," once a cornerstone of the reelection campaign, have been subsumed by current events. Economic messaging still used by the campaign online, including boasts about low unemployment, is now woefully out of date.
The search for a slogan, which Trump confidants say he is likely to resolve in the coming weeks, is a symptom of the president's larger problem: The booming economy that he assumed would be his chief argument for reelection has foundered for the moment, a casualty of a coronavirus crisis he initially downplayed and more recently has sought to move beyond.
On issues compelling to most Americans — health, economy and national unrest about police violence — Trump has offered few new proposals, relying on pointed warnings that Democrats and their liberal ideas would make the country worse. On Friday, asked whether he had a plan to address systemic racism that has sent millions of Americans to the streets — some in view of the White House — he replied: "That's what my plan is: We're going to have the strongest economy in the world."
The president and his top political advisers met Thursday afternoon to discuss how Trump should make his case and how he could improve his standing among voters, a person familiar with the meeting said. Participants included senior White House adviser Jared Kushner, Republican National Committee chairwoman Ronna McDaniel, White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, campaign manager Brad Parscale, his recently elevated deputy Bill Stepien and campaign pollsters. Trump was also presented with "tough" swing state polls from his political team in the Oval Office.
A larger group of aides then briefed Trump on their communications strategy — from how to sell the economic recovery to how to attack former vice president Joe Biden, according to people attending the meeting. Trump was described as in a good mood, forecasting that the economy would recover, people familiar with the larger RNC and campaign aides discussion said.
Some inside Trump's inner circle say the "Keep America Great" reelection brand and the "Sleepy Joe" nickname for Biden are not likely to be as prominent in the future. "When the president decides, there will be a new slogan and there will be new ads," said one Trump campaign adviser, who, like others interviewed for this story, spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations.
White House adviser Kellyanne Conway has used the slogan "Great American Comeback" to incorporate the recent economic setbacks and thinks there should be additional branding of Biden that focuses more squarely on what she said was his "decades-long lackluster establishment record," calling him "the Loch Ness monster of the Washington swamp."
-----------------------------------
The struggle to define Trump's reelection effort is a sharp departure from his first campaign for president, which was marked by biting branding that defined the election cycle. After a lifetime in business spent marking his brand on everything from hotels to steaks, he dispatched opponents with nicknames that stuck such as "Crooked Hillary" and "Lying Ted," while electrifying his crowds with unforgettable phrases such as "Build the Wall" and "Drain the Swamp."
So far this year, as multiple crises have forced Trump to shift direction, Republicans have reacted with concern and Democrats have celebrated the relative incoherence in Trump's strategy.
"I don't know what their core message is right now, because they are falling victim to having to respond every day to the crisis of the moment," said a former White House official. "This is a big issue because if you go back to 2016, the main strength of the Trump campaign was a consistent message. It's paradoxical because Trump is always all over the place, but there was a core that he was communicating."
-----------------------------------
But even before the crises hit this year, he was hosting debates about his best slogan, both in public at campaign rallies and in private meetings at the White House. Last July, during a meeting with campaign aides and political advisers, he expressed concern about switching from 2016's "Make America Great Again" to "Keep America Great."
"This better work, fellas," he told others in the room about the slogan switch, according to two people with knowledge of the exchange. "I'd be the only idiot in the world to give up a brand like that and then lose."
He also asked an aide to go into the Oval Office to get two hats. One said "Keep America Great" and one said "Keep America Great!" with an exclamation point. It was decided, people familiar with the meeting said, to not use the exclamation point on the hats, though the punctuation has remained on the campaign signage. One of the stated concerns was that former Florida governor Jeb Bush, a Trump antagonist, had used an exclamation point in his campaign logo in 2016.
"Everyone kind of agreed that Keep America Great is the way to go," said one of the people familiar with the conversation.
That was months before a viral pandemic, an economic collapse and a national outpouring of rage over racist policing practices reshaped the electoral battlefield and forced the campaign to reshuffle its stated strategy.
-----------------------------------
Though some of the positive spots include passing shots at Biden, other Democrats and the press, they are more notable for the variety of language they use. They include "Keep America Great" branding, but one of them also includes a voice-over of Trump saying "Make America Great Again." The most frequently aired spot calls Trump "a bull in a china shop," and uses a new set of tag lines, including "Mr. Nice Guy won't cut it" and "Donald Trump gets it done."
By contrast, Biden has stayed consistent since the start of the Democratic primaries with the central theme of his campaign: "Restoring the Soul of the Nation." His advisers have privately begun to make light of Trump's attempts label their candidate.
Biden's top political strategist, Mike Donilon, said Trump's inability to accomplish the planned shift from "Make America Great Again" to "Keep America Great" is a perilous sign for the Republican's campaign.
"He is scrambling. He has said something about 'transition to greatness,' which is an admission of failure," Donilon said. "There is no message from Donald Trump. What there is, is a demolition derby."
Trump's campaign advisers are banking on an economic recovery in the coming months to erase this deficit and resolve any confusion about the campaign's message. The president was ebullient on Friday when the Labor Department announced a surprise gain of 2.5 million jobs in May, against predictions of giant losses.
"The president is extremely confident that the economy will rebound quickly and forcefully. It will make his original economic argument even stronger," Trump campaign communications director Tim Murtaugh said. "The Democrats view economic recovery as bad politics for them."
The campaign also has been working to soften the edges of Trump's more aggressive statements about the need to "dominate" the protesters causing chaos on the streets. Two days after police used force on Trump's behalf to clear a plaza outside the White House of peaceful protesters, the campaign posted a video called "Healing, not Hatred" that coupled memorial images to George Floyd with words of sympathy Trump delivered last week after the launch of a U.S. space capsule.
The ad has been removed by Facebook, Instagram and Twitter following a complaint from the copyright holder of an image.


More in the link.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,628
"Keep America Great" is a woefully dated and out of touch slogan that will backfire immensely.
 

MetalMagus

Avenger
Oct 16, 2018
1,645
Maine
"Keep America Great" is a woefully dated and out of touch slogan that will backfire immensely.

It was always low effort compared to Make America Great Again. As much as I hate both the man who made it and the message behind it, MAGA was one of those lightining in a bottle slogans. On the same level as Obama's Hope, Reagan's references to a Shining City on a Hill or Clinton's call that it was Time for Change.

Thing is, slogans only work for getting you there, after that it's about performance. Especially because you can't really rely on using the same twice. Obama, Reagan and Clinton were proud to stand on their accomplishment. Trump's was previously only working for the base, now even that's shaky.
 

ZAKU-RED

Member
Oct 27, 2017
360
Covid-19 crisis and failure to properly prepare for it leaving over 100k Americans dead with more deaths coming as he still ignores the problem and blames it all on the Governors.

The BLM Protests and him hiding in a bunker and wanting to use Military force to break up the protests while not even showing an ounce of empathy to
George Floyd's family. Dude sits and hides and retweets racists shitheels and keeps screaming "Law and Order" and allowing peaceful protesters to get tear-gassed so he can do his eventual failed photo op in front of a church.

The Economy is fucked and went as far as bragging about the unemployment numbers being 13% even though that is an error and it's really 16%.

Hell this is with me just barely scratching the surface on how fucked up shit he has done in 2020 alone and I'm not even doing the BLM protests justice and how he has done nothing to even listen to their message, he just thinks there are all Liberal thugs and I'm sure he's called the African Americans much worse things that haven't been leaked yet. Hell, we already know how he feels going by his shitty dog whistles and retweets of other dirtbags.

"Keep America Great" yeah I want to see him try and use that. It will backfire spectacularly.
 

OfficerRob

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,117
"Keep America Great" during a time of depression era unemployment, a pandemic which has killed over 100k Americans (and climbing), and unrest across the country due to the latest killing of a black man by police captured on video, sure sounds like a winning message to me.

Trump is in real deep shit here, he needs:

The V economic recovery (that isn't entirely based on cooking the numbers)
No second wave of COVID-19
Independents who are currently saying the will vote for Biden to switch back to him
A message on Biden that actually sticks
The George Floyd/BLM moment to go away
No other unexpected huge events or major Trump fuck-ups until the election

Trump can win, but the odds are really against him now
 

Strong Island

Member
May 11, 2020
656
The last thing (Trump not screwing anything else) is virtually impossible. I thought his mishandling of COVID would be his biggest screw up but he quickly proved me wrong with how he has handled Floyd's death.
 

fragamemnon

Member
Nov 30, 2017
6,855
That poll saying 80% of the country thinks we are spinning out of control is just absolutely wild.

Romney's father was run out of the Nixon admin for trying to uphold the Fair Housing Act via guerrilla war as HUD secretary and famously said that America's housing patterns were a "high-income white noose" around the black inner city. It's good to see Mitt out there with the protestors.
 

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
23,829




Kyle Griffin @kylegriffin1

John Bolton plans to publish his tell-all about his time in the White House in late June.

Bolton is planning to publish even if the White House does not give publication approval, people familiar with his thinking say.https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/john-bolton-plans-to-publish-a-tell-all-about-his-time-in-the-white-house-in-late-june/2020/06/07/c72fcb4a-a8f4-11ea-868b-93d63cd833b2_story.html …

6:55 PM - Jun 7, 2020




Josh Dawsey @jdawsey1

John Bolton is in talks with TV networks to do interviews in two weeks & plans to publish his scathing book about Trump on June 23, even if White House doesn't approve. They could take action against him. Book is caustic & 592 pages. W/⁦@thamburger⁩: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/john-bolton-plans-to-publish-a-tell-all-about-his-time-in-the-white-house-in-late-june/2020/06/07/c72fcb4a-a8f4-11ea-868b-93d63cd833b2_story.html …

6:53 PM - Jun 7, 2020
 
OP
OP
TheHunter

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774
This is mostly done in deep blue cities by Democratic mayors.
I live in Seattle, our mayor is Democratic and our city council doesn't have a single republican in it. Our shitty mayor is really really trying to make it about Trump, but it wasn't him who put the city under curfew and sent the cops and national guard to tear gas and flashbang us, he didn't set the SPD budget to the stupid levels that it is and it wasn't him that failed to get them under control.

It was municipal politicians, which in most of cities in America are Democratic.

Politicians siding with police against the people is sadly a bipartisan problem.

If the Democrats want to help, they can make the shitty Democratic mayors take serious action against the police, they don't need to seize shit for that, because they'll turn these protests into a fundraising and voter registration operation, because that's really all they know how to do anymore.
Don't look at muiniple government like federal or state government.

That D next to their name is meaningless. The issue a city faces are entirely different that state or fed. City politics is very aggrievement based as well.

Dems t city =/= Dems as a whole.
 

RolandGunner

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,528
Re: Slogan


Amid nationwide protests and a historic economic contraction, President Trump is running for reelection to "Keep America Great" — at least according to the hats he sells on his campaign website, the signs waved by his supporters and the television ads he's airing in key states.
But in recent weeks he has retreated to contradictory slogans with a less triumphant ring, repeatedly reviving his 2016 motto "Make America Great Again!" and trying out new catchphrases like "Transition to Greatness!" and "The Best Is Yet to Come," a Frank Sinatra lyric etched on the crooner's tombstone.
Phrases such as "Promises Made, Promise Kept," once a cornerstone of the reelection campaign, have been subsumed by current events. Economic messaging still used by the campaign online, including boasts about low unemployment, is now woefully out of date.
The search for a slogan, which Trump confidants say he is likely to resolve in the coming weeks, is a symptom of the president's larger problem: The booming economy that he assumed would be his chief argument for reelection has foundered for the moment, a casualty of a coronavirus crisis he initially downplayed and more recently has sought to move beyond.
On issues compelling to most Americans — health, economy and national unrest about police violence — Trump has offered few new proposals, relying on pointed warnings that Democrats and their liberal ideas would make the country worse. On Friday, asked whether he had a plan to address systemic racism that has sent millions of Americans to the streets — some in view of the White House — he replied: "That's what my plan is: We're going to have the strongest economy in the world."
The president and his top political advisers met Thursday afternoon to discuss how Trump should make his case and how he could improve his standing among voters, a person familiar with the meeting said. Participants included senior White House adviser Jared Kushner, Republican National Committee chairwoman Ronna McDaniel, White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, campaign manager Brad Parscale, his recently elevated deputy Bill Stepien and campaign pollsters. Trump was also presented with "tough" swing state polls from his political team in the Oval Office.
A larger group of aides then briefed Trump on their communications strategy — from how to sell the economic recovery to how to attack former vice president Joe Biden, according to people attending the meeting. Trump was described as in a good mood, forecasting that the economy would recover, people familiar with the larger RNC and campaign aides discussion said.
Some inside Trump's inner circle say the "Keep America Great" reelection brand and the "Sleepy Joe" nickname for Biden are not likely to be as prominent in the future. "When the president decides, there will be a new slogan and there will be new ads," said one Trump campaign adviser, who, like others interviewed for this story, spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations.
White House adviser Kellyanne Conway has used the slogan "Great American Comeback" to incorporate the recent economic setbacks and thinks there should be additional branding of Biden that focuses more squarely on what she said was his "decades-long lackluster establishment record," calling him "the Loch Ness monster of the Washington swamp."
-----------------------------------
The struggle to define Trump's reelection effort is a sharp departure from his first campaign for president, which was marked by biting branding that defined the election cycle. After a lifetime in business spent marking his brand on everything from hotels to steaks, he dispatched opponents with nicknames that stuck such as "Crooked Hillary" and "Lying Ted," while electrifying his crowds with unforgettable phrases such as "Build the Wall" and "Drain the Swamp."
So far this year, as multiple crises have forced Trump to shift direction, Republicans have reacted with concern and Democrats have celebrated the relative incoherence in Trump's strategy.
"I don't know what their core message is right now, because they are falling victim to having to respond every day to the crisis of the moment," said a former White House official. "This is a big issue because if you go back to 2016, the main strength of the Trump campaign was a consistent message. It's paradoxical because Trump is always all over the place, but there was a core that he was communicating."
-----------------------------------
But even before the crises hit this year, he was hosting debates about his best slogan, both in public at campaign rallies and in private meetings at the White House. Last July, during a meeting with campaign aides and political advisers, he expressed concern about switching from 2016's "Make America Great Again" to "Keep America Great."
"This better work, fellas," he told others in the room about the slogan switch, according to two people with knowledge of the exchange. "I'd be the only idiot in the world to give up a brand like that and then lose."
He also asked an aide to go into the Oval Office to get two hats. One said "Keep America Great" and one said "Keep America Great!" with an exclamation point. It was decided, people familiar with the meeting said, to not use the exclamation point on the hats, though the punctuation has remained on the campaign signage. One of the stated concerns was that former Florida governor Jeb Bush, a Trump antagonist, had used an exclamation point in his campaign logo in 2016.
"Everyone kind of agreed that Keep America Great is the way to go," said one of the people familiar with the conversation.
That was months before a viral pandemic, an economic collapse and a national outpouring of rage over racist policing practices reshaped the electoral battlefield and forced the campaign to reshuffle its stated strategy.
-----------------------------------
Though some of the positive spots include passing shots at Biden, other Democrats and the press, they are more notable for the variety of language they use. They include "Keep America Great" branding, but one of them also includes a voice-over of Trump saying "Make America Great Again." The most frequently aired spot calls Trump "a bull in a china shop," and uses a new set of tag lines, including "Mr. Nice Guy won't cut it" and "Donald Trump gets it done."
By contrast, Biden has stayed consistent since the start of the Democratic primaries with the central theme of his campaign: "Restoring the Soul of the Nation." His advisers have privately begun to make light of Trump's attempts label their candidate.
Biden's top political strategist, Mike Donilon, said Trump's inability to accomplish the planned shift from "Make America Great Again" to "Keep America Great" is a perilous sign for the Republican's campaign.
"He is scrambling. He has said something about 'transition to greatness,' which is an admission of failure," Donilon said. "There is no message from Donald Trump. What there is, is a demolition derby."
Trump's campaign advisers are banking on an economic recovery in the coming months to erase this deficit and resolve any confusion about the campaign's message. The president was ebullient on Friday when the Labor Department announced a surprise gain of 2.5 million jobs in May, against predictions of giant losses.
"The president is extremely confident that the economy will rebound quickly and forcefully. It will make his original economic argument even stronger," Trump campaign communications director Tim Murtaugh said. "The Democrats view economic recovery as bad politics for them."
The campaign also has been working to soften the edges of Trump's more aggressive statements about the need to "dominate" the protesters causing chaos on the streets. Two days after police used force on Trump's behalf to clear a plaza outside the White House of peaceful protesters, the campaign posted a video called "Healing, not Hatred" that coupled memorial images to George Floyd with words of sympathy Trump delivered last week after the launch of a U.S. space capsule.
The ad has been removed by Facebook, Instagram and Twitter following a complaint from the copyright holder of an image.


More in the link.


Great American Comeback is definitely the kind of thing Trump's base would latch on to. But the country has to stop being a dumpster fire for a few weeks for it to make any sense. They really are running out of time to put together any kind of coherent message. Stuff like that can't come together overnight.
 

Lo-Volt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,435
New Yawk City!
Kyle Griffin @kylegriffin1

John Bolton plans to publish his tell-all about his time in the White House in late June.

Bolton is planning to publish even if the White House does not give publication approval, people familiar with his thinking say.https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/john-bolton-plans-to-publish-a-tell-all-about-his-time-in-the-white-house-in-late-june/2020/06/07/c72fcb4a-a8f4-11ea-868b-93d63cd833b2_story.html …

6:55 PM - Jun 7, 2020





Josh Dawsey @jdawsey1

John Bolton is in talks with TV networks to do interviews in two weeks & plans to publish his scathing book about Trump on June 23, even if White House doesn't approve. They could take action against him. Book is caustic & 592 pages. W/⁦@thamburger⁩: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/john-bolton-plans-to-publish-a-tell-all-about-his-time-in-the-white-house-in-late-june/2020/06/07/c72fcb4a-a8f4-11ea-868b-93d63cd833b2_story.html …

6:53 PM - Jun 7, 2020

This really is a blockbuster fourth season of The Trump Show, with everyone coming out the woodwork from old episodes to finish their arcs. Mattis, Kelly, and now Bolton.
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
Don't look at muiniple government like federal or state government.

That D next to their name is meaningless. The issue a city faces are entirely different that state or fed. City politics is very aggrievement based as well.

Dems t city =/= Dems as a whole.
So I don't know all cities, but I know Seattle and Washington State politics pretty well I think, and who specifically in the local government are you talking about?
Jay Inslee, which I like a lot, sent the national guard on our asses after one day of one peaceful protest that the cops decided to beat up a bit because they were sad that they played Chief Keef in front of the burning 3rd precinct in Minnesota.

Jay Inslee is a democrat in name only?
The Democratic party has been pro police for a long time, I think they all got scared by Willie Horton and they decided that law and order is a winning strategy so they tried to out GOP the GOP. This is where the super tough crime bills of the 90s and the aughts come from, this is why they attack Bush senior for not going hard enough in the war on drugs.
I think there's a good chance that they were right and indeed that was a good tactic to win elections, but I personally cannot possibly justify the cost.
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,924
I don't think it's their slogan, but it's funny when he launched his campaign we all mocked "Restoring the Soul of the Nation."

And it hasn't been as bad as a message as people thought.
 
OP
OP
TheHunter

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774
So I don't know all cities, but I know Seattle and Washington State politics pretty well I think, and who specifically in the local government are you talking about?
Jay Inslee, which I like a lot, sent the national guard on our asses after one day of one peaceful protest that the cops decided to beat up a bit because they were sad that they played Chief Keef in front of the burning 3rd precinct in Minnesota.

Jay Inslee is a democrat in name only?
The Democratic party has been pro police for a long time, I think they all got scared by Willie Horton and they decided that law and order is a winning strategy so they tried to out GOP the GOP. This is where the super tough crime bills of the 90s and the aughts come from, this is why they attack Bush senior for not going hard enough in the war on drugs.
I think there's a good chance that they were right and indeed that was a good tactic to win elections, but I personally cannot possibly justify the cost.
No I mean how they are responding to this.

Yes the Dems supported law and order because most people did. This is the first time police haven't been viewed favorably.

Mayor's are gonna continue to be shit on this.
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
No I mean how they are responding to this.

Yes the Dems supported law and order because most people did. This is the first time police haven't been viewed favorably.

Mayor's are gonna continue to be shit on this.
They are responding the way Democratic party always responded to this.
Ferguson happened under Obama.

I think as long as they think that going against cops is political suicide, this will not change. I think most of them still think that, but hopefully their minds can be changed about it with some more protests.
 
OP
OP
TheHunter

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774
They are responding the way Democratic party always responded to this.
Ferguson happened under Obama.

I think as long as they think that going against cops is political suicide, this will not change. I think most of them still think that, but hopefully their minds can be changed about it with some more protests.
Because the popular opinion was pro police back then.

You really aren't seeing how much things have changed.
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
Because the popular opinion was pro police back then.

You really aren't seeing how much things have changed.
Jim Crow was popular in the south and a lot of politicians supported it because of that, I think history rightfully judged them very harshly, and I really can't think of a reason why I should cut the Mayor of Seattle any more slack than I cut them.
If anything else, she should know better, because we've been here before.
 

MarioW

PikPok
Verified
Nov 5, 2017
1,155
New Zealand
The advantage for Trump in 2016 was a large proportion of the voting population was doing generally "okay". A generic "Make America Great Again" and "Drain the Swamp" message (with a touch of "Build the Wall" to keep people coming and taking things from you) was general enough that people could layer in their own specific wants and fears without needing the reassurance of details or an actual plan.

In 2020, everybody has specific and very personal problems, related to health, rights, community unrest, employment, business owner pressure, immigration status of friends and family, etc. He isn't going to be able to win over people with a single catch all slogan like he was able to in the past.
 

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
23,829


www.axios.com

Concerned about "brutal" internal polling, Trump's top aides plot new theme

Trump is at a low point in his presidency and re-election campaign.

Behind the scenes: During a meeting of top political advisers at campaign headquarters on Thursday afternoon, the president's 2016 campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, raised a question that many close to the campaign have been asking themselves recently: "What's our message?"
  • Lewandowski, who called in on Zoom, later clarified in the meeting that he was asking specifically about the messaging to communicate Trump's second-term priorities.
  • But the original — very basic — question sounded relevant to some of the president's senior advisers, who worry about the president's political position.
  • Advisers settled on a theme of the "Great American Comeback" underpinned by words like "renewing," "recovering," "restoring" and "rebuilding."
  • Friday's surprisingly good jobs report gave them a chance to road test the theme with a new ad: "The great American comeback has begun. ... Renewing. Restoring. Rebuilding. Together, we'll make America great again."

Between the lines: Right now Trump is at a low point in his presidency and re-election campaign.
  • A source briefed on his internal polls called them "brutal," showing a significant drop-off in independent support.
  • He has a "woman problem" in the words of another adviser.
  • And Trump's more incendiary rhetoric and actions — "when the looting starts, the shooting starts" and his calls for the military to enter cities — trouble some of his top aides.

What they're saying: "There's a thought that we need to shift to be much more cohesive in terms of a message of healing, rebuilding, restoring, recovering ... a theme that goes with COVID and the economy and the race stuff," said a senior adviser to Trump.
  • "The messaging that works for the red-MAGA-hat base doesn't resonate with independents."
  • "He has to tone down the most incendiary rhetoric, talk about law and order in the context of riots, and at the same time say the country's united that what happened to George Floyd can never happen again," a second adviser familiar with the internal discussion said.
  • "He's starting to hear from a lot of people, political people, who are saying, 'Simmer down. ... You are not helping the situation by talking about only sending the military in.'"
  • "We need to say police are an integral part of society, but we've gotta dial it down a bit," the adviser added.
  • But a third adviser familiar with the conversation cautioned: "Nobody would have been invited to that meeting who truly thinks they can stop Trump from saying anything."
----------------------------------------

What's next: The group agreed they needed to build some goodwill with the African American community.
  • They plan to emphasize policies Trump has approved that may appeal to African Americans, including support for Historically Black Colleges and Universities, opportunity zones (tax incentives for low-income communities), and criminal justice reform.
  • To that end, on Friday, Mike Pence participated in a "listening session" with African American faith and community leaders.
  • The Trump campaign also plans to try to go on the offense — tagging Biden with progressives' emerging "defund the police" rhetoric, per a campaign official.
  • Yes, but: Biden has not called to defund the police, but the Trump campaign will press him to denounce the idea, assuming he will alienate some of his base. (See a crowd of activists boo and reject Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey after he refused to commit to defunding his city's police force.)
 
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TheHunter

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774
Jim Crow was popular in the south and a lot of politicians supported it because of that, I think history rightfully judged them very harshly, and I really can't think of a reason why I should cut the Mayor of Seattle any more slack than I cut them.
If anything else, she should know better, because we've been here before.
I said cut the dem party as a whole slack, not individuals who fail.

Mayors need to be dragged because they are not the same as the party as a whole. The sooner people stop treating municipal government the same the better.
 

GrapeApes

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,493
Josh Dawsey @jdawsey1

John Bolton is in talks with TV networks to do interviews in two weeks & plans to publish his scathing book about Trump on June 23, even if White House doesn't approve. They could take action against him. Book is caustic & 592 pages. W/⁦@thamburger⁩: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/john-bolton-plans-to-publish-a-tell-all-about-his-time-in-the-white-house-in-late-june/2020/06/07/c72fcb4a-a8f4-11ea-868b-93d63cd833b2_story.html …

6:53 PM - Jun 7, 2020
Who cares?
 

thefro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,996
It was always low effort compared to Make America Great Again. As much as I hate both the man who made it and the message behind it, MAGA was one of those lightining in a bottle slogans. On the same level as Obama's Hope, Reagan's references to a Shining City on a Hill or Clinton's call that it was Time for Change.



"MAGA" was stolen from Reagan
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
I said cut the dem party as a whole slack, not individuals who fail.

Mayors need to be dragged because they are not the same as the party as a whole. The sooner people stop treating municipal government the same the better.
I protest mostly against my mayor, I think it's first and foremost a municipal issue and I think it will be huge mistake to try to fight it on the federal level, for many reasons.
But why should I cut the party slack?

They have done shit and all to support these protests, they are sitting on a mountain of cash that they got from us and they can't even set a bail and legal fund for people arrested here.
And that's on all levels, Patty Murray can get the person who was arrested for filming cops pepper spraying a kid out of jail in one phone call.

I think if we keep excusing them for being wrong this issue, this will not change, and I think the Democratic party as a whole has very wrong on law and order for a long time. If we want to change that, we can't ignore that.
 

fragamemnon

Member
Nov 30, 2017
6,855
Going after Biden for defund the police isn't coherent-it's mayors and city councils that make that decision. The response is super clear-the administration wants to play a part in funding state and local experiments-which can include defund and reorganize per the design of our federal system; and provide basic top-down commonsense reforms that are widely popular.

Also none of the Trump policy advisor leaks feel meaningful. They are intended to try to get their message across to their candidate, because he won't listen to them.

But a third adviser familiar with the conversation cautioned: "Nobody would have been invited to that meeting who truly thinks they can stop Trump from saying anything."

This+Fox News won't get behind this kind of messaging, it doesn't get the viewers, and Trump gets his angry messaging that does so much damage straight from Fox.
 

Hopfrog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,956
I am surprised that people did not know that MAGA was not original, especially on here. My students always chuckle when I show that Reagan campaign material using it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,973
I said cut the dem party as a whole slack, not individuals who fail.

Mayors need to be dragged because they are not the same as the party as a whole. The sooner people stop treating municipal government the same the better.

Cities and mayors vie to be the host cities of party conventions and retreats. In some states they have the majority of voters for the party, but those voters are taken for granted. Lack of party pressure helps mayors continue to zone and police in the current manner.

Debbie Wasserman-Schultz was DNC head not long ago, and the de-facto head of the party at the time (Obama) felt he had to go around her organization in order to get anything done. The most recent DNC chair also-ran Keith Ellison was slow to speak out about George Floyd as AG of Minnesota. The people who are considered thought leaders in the party these days, with few exceptions, are newer and/or younger. The VP candidate selection includes too many people who either have a current record responding to the BLM protests with force, or a past record in a discriminatory legal system. These candidates, and many more party stalwarts, continue to accept speaking slots on news networks where they are made (or paid) to talk over activism activities that the party will seek to take advantage of pretty soon.

The party should absolutely continue to get dragged until their constituents are no longer taken for granted and/or harmed by civil servants.
 

Ithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,392
Tell-all books are absolutely worthless until Trump is no longer in office. They'll still be self-aggrandizing rubbish but they'll always hold back til then.
Course then there will be eighty "I was the ONE PERSON holding back even worse disaster the whole time!" books from every dipshit who did nothing.
 

studyguy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,282
Marched out in Simi Valley yesterday, as far as counties goes, it's by far the reddest in the area. Easily over 2000 people there and a city official got lit the up over making a joke about running protesters over.
 

bye

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,424
Phoenix, AZ
Re: Slogan


Amid nationwide protests and a historic economic contraction, President Trump is running for reelection to "Keep America Great" — at least according to the hats he sells on his campaign website, the signs waved by his supporters and the television ads he's airing in key states.
But in recent weeks he has retreated to contradictory slogans with a less triumphant ring, repeatedly reviving his 2016 motto "Make America Great Again!" and trying out new catchphrases like "Transition to Greatness!" and "The Best Is Yet to Come," a Frank Sinatra lyric etched on the crooner's tombstone.
Phrases such as "Promises Made, Promise Kept," once a cornerstone of the reelection campaign, have been subsumed by current events. Economic messaging still used by the campaign online, including boasts about low unemployment, is now woefully out of date.
The search for a slogan, which Trump confidants say he is likely to resolve in the coming weeks, is a symptom of the president's larger problem: The booming economy that he assumed would be his chief argument for reelection has foundered for the moment, a casualty of a coronavirus crisis he initially downplayed and more recently has sought to move beyond.
On issues compelling to most Americans — health, economy and national unrest about police violence — Trump has offered few new proposals, relying on pointed warnings that Democrats and their liberal ideas would make the country worse. On Friday, asked whether he had a plan to address systemic racism that has sent millions of Americans to the streets — some in view of the White House — he replied: "That's what my plan is: We're going to have the strongest economy in the world."
The president and his top political advisers met Thursday afternoon to discuss how Trump should make his case and how he could improve his standing among voters, a person familiar with the meeting said. Participants included senior White House adviser Jared Kushner, Republican National Committee chairwoman Ronna McDaniel, White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, campaign manager Brad Parscale, his recently elevated deputy Bill Stepien and campaign pollsters. Trump was also presented with "tough" swing state polls from his political team in the Oval Office.
A larger group of aides then briefed Trump on their communications strategy — from how to sell the economic recovery to how to attack former vice president Joe Biden, according to people attending the meeting. Trump was described as in a good mood, forecasting that the economy would recover, people familiar with the larger RNC and campaign aides discussion said.
Some inside Trump's inner circle say the "Keep America Great" reelection brand and the "Sleepy Joe" nickname for Biden are not likely to be as prominent in the future. "When the president decides, there will be a new slogan and there will be new ads," said one Trump campaign adviser, who, like others interviewed for this story, spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations.
White House adviser Kellyanne Conway has used the slogan "Great American Comeback" to incorporate the recent economic setbacks and thinks there should be additional branding of Biden that focuses more squarely on what she said was his "decades-long lackluster establishment record," calling him "the Loch Ness monster of the Washington swamp."
-----------------------------------
The struggle to define Trump's reelection effort is a sharp departure from his first campaign for president, which was marked by biting branding that defined the election cycle. After a lifetime in business spent marking his brand on everything from hotels to steaks, he dispatched opponents with nicknames that stuck such as "Crooked Hillary" and "Lying Ted," while electrifying his crowds with unforgettable phrases such as "Build the Wall" and "Drain the Swamp."
So far this year, as multiple crises have forced Trump to shift direction, Republicans have reacted with concern and Democrats have celebrated the relative incoherence in Trump's strategy.
"I don't know what their core message is right now, because they are falling victim to having to respond every day to the crisis of the moment," said a former White House official. "This is a big issue because if you go back to 2016, the main strength of the Trump campaign was a consistent message. It's paradoxical because Trump is always all over the place, but there was a core that he was communicating."
-----------------------------------
But even before the crises hit this year, he was hosting debates about his best slogan, both in public at campaign rallies and in private meetings at the White House. Last July, during a meeting with campaign aides and political advisers, he expressed concern about switching from 2016's "Make America Great Again" to "Keep America Great."
"This better work, fellas," he told others in the room about the slogan switch, according to two people with knowledge of the exchange. "I'd be the only idiot in the world to give up a brand like that and then lose."
He also asked an aide to go into the Oval Office to get two hats. One said "Keep America Great" and one said "Keep America Great!" with an exclamation point. It was decided, people familiar with the meeting said, to not use the exclamation point on the hats, though the punctuation has remained on the campaign signage. One of the stated concerns was that former Florida governor Jeb Bush, a Trump antagonist, had used an exclamation point in his campaign logo in 2016.
"Everyone kind of agreed that Keep America Great is the way to go," said one of the people familiar with the conversation.
That was months before a viral pandemic, an economic collapse and a national outpouring of rage over racist policing practices reshaped the electoral battlefield and forced the campaign to reshuffle its stated strategy.
-----------------------------------
Though some of the positive spots include passing shots at Biden, other Democrats and the press, they are more notable for the variety of language they use. They include "Keep America Great" branding, but one of them also includes a voice-over of Trump saying "Make America Great Again." The most frequently aired spot calls Trump "a bull in a china shop," and uses a new set of tag lines, including "Mr. Nice Guy won't cut it" and "Donald Trump gets it done."
By contrast, Biden has stayed consistent since the start of the Democratic primaries with the central theme of his campaign: "Restoring the Soul of the Nation." His advisers have privately begun to make light of Trump's attempts label their candidate.
Biden's top political strategist, Mike Donilon, said Trump's inability to accomplish the planned shift from "Make America Great Again" to "Keep America Great" is a perilous sign for the Republican's campaign.
"He is scrambling. He has said something about 'transition to greatness,' which is an admission of failure," Donilon said. "There is no message from Donald Trump. What there is, is a demolition derby."
Trump's campaign advisers are banking on an economic recovery in the coming months to erase this deficit and resolve any confusion about the campaign's message. The president was ebullient on Friday when the Labor Department announced a surprise gain of 2.5 million jobs in May, against predictions of giant losses.
"The president is extremely confident that the economy will rebound quickly and forcefully. It will make his original economic argument even stronger," Trump campaign communications director Tim Murtaugh said. "The Democrats view economic recovery as bad politics for them."
The campaign also has been working to soften the edges of Trump's more aggressive statements about the need to "dominate" the protesters causing chaos on the streets. Two days after police used force on Trump's behalf to clear a plaza outside the White House of peaceful protesters, the campaign posted a video called "Healing, not Hatred" that coupled memorial images to George Floyd with words of sympathy Trump delivered last week after the launch of a U.S. space capsule.
The ad has been removed by Facebook, Instagram and Twitter following a complaint from the copyright holder of an image.


More in the link.


he should just use MAGA again but unironically, works for everyone
 

Avinash117

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,602
From the NYTime article, how I see it, there isn't a strategy and llikely won't be one because Trump will ruin it and the situation is very fluid. The only strategy that they have is hoping the economy gets better, which isn't a strategy.
 

IggyChooChoo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,230
Wait. He stole MAGA?!
He didn't even come up with his greatest marketing line, lol
Weren't MAGA, drain the swamp, "deep state" and some other stuff focus tested and packaged by Cambridge Analytica with the intention of giving to Ted Cruz?

edit: here you go
 
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TheHunter

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774
Cities and mayors vie to be the host cities of party conventions and retreats. In some states they have the majority of voters for the party, but those voters are taken for granted. Lack of party pressure helps mayors continue to zone and police in the current manner.

Debbie Wasserman-Schultz was DNC head not long ago, and the de-facto head of the party at the time (Obama) felt he had to go around her organization in order to get anything done. The most recent DNC chair also-ran Keith Ellison was slow to speak out about George Floyd as AG of Minnesota. The people who are considered thought leaders in the party these days, with few exceptions, are newer and/or younger. The VP candidate selection includes too many people who either have a current record responding to the BLM protests with force, or a past record in a discriminatory legal system. These candidates, and many more party stalwarts, continue to accept speaking slots on news networks where they are made (or paid) to talk over activism activities that the party will seek to take advantage of pretty soon.

The party should absolutely continue to get dragged until their constituents are no longer taken for granted and/or harmed by civil servants.
Not when the dragging starts to go into "both sides are the same" or no one notices the federal level dems are shifting their rhetoric on this issue.

We have a presidential candidate coming out in support of black lives matter openly. That's huge. Hold the party accountable but the winds are blowing a different direction and these Dems are not the dems of the 90s or even early 2010s. The party is going through a dramatic shift thanks in part to Trump and Southern Strategy finally coming home to roost for the Dems.

Some issues will remain hard to naviagte. For instance "abolish the police". That means get rid of policing as we know it and replace it with better community driven health and safty measures. Regular people will hear it and go "you want criminals to run free?" Just the same someone like me is for police reform but to many on the left "reform" is a dirty word (even though I too want the police in America changed completely). This also means were still gonna have people at the national and state level who will lag behind the party or the voter consensus. Manchin is no progressive darling after all but you'd be hard pressed to see any serious politicos suggest removing him or tryin gto primary him.

So yes, drag the mayors and assholes who still aren't behind the movement. Don't sit there and go "well the dems are also the issue/both sides". That clearly isn't the case going forward. The dems are open to change. The GOP(sans Romney) aren't.
 
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Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
Not when the dragging starts to go into "both sides are the same" or no one notices the federal level dems are shifting their rhetoric on this issue.

We have a presidential candidate coming out in support of black lives matter openly. That's huge. Hold the party accountable but the winds are blowing a different direction and these Dems are not the dems of the 90s or even early 2010s. The party is going through a dramatic shift thanks in part to Trump and Southern Strategy finally coming home to roost for the Dems.

Some issues will remain hard to naviagte. For instance "abolish the police". That means get rid of policing as we know it and replace it with better community driven health and safty measures. Regular people will hear it and go "you want criminals to run free?" Just the same someone like me is for police reform but to many on the left "reform" is a dirty word (even though I too want the police in America changed completely). This also means were still gonna have people at the national and state level who will lag behind the party or the voter consensus. Manchin is no progressive darling after all but you'd be hard pressed to see any serious politicos suggest removing him or tryin gto primary him.
Seattle didn't have a Republican mayor since 1969, I don't think you can blame that on anyone but them, and I think they need to be dragged, that's how democracy should work.
I really don't think there is any reason to rush to defend them on this issue.
No one is saying vote Republican here, but we got to be able to criticize Democrats on areas where they're failing, and policing has been a long terrible failure of the party. And while the protests got some of them to maybe talk nicer about BLM (they still don't do much beyond that) it's only because that they got shit from people that they are moving on this, so I think we shouldn't stop.

The Democratic party had to be dragged by its hair by activists who broke way more windows and caused way more commotion than these protests to get on the right side of civil rights, Vietnam, the Iraq war, gay marriage and many other issues, and it's always always involve talking shit about their failings. This is how it's supposed to work in a Democracy. This is a healthy process.
 
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TheHunter

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774
Seattle didn't have a Republican mayor since 1969, I don't think you can blame that on anyone but them, and I think they need to be dragged, that's how democracy should work.
I really don't think there is any reason to rush to defend them on this issue.
No one is saying vote Republican here, but we got to be able to criticize Democrats on areas where they're failing, and policing has been a long terrible failure of the party. And while the protests got some of them to maybe talk nicer about BLM (they still don't do much beyond that) it's only because that they got shit from people that they are moving on this, so I think we shouldn't stop.

The Democratic party had to be dragged by its hair by activists who broke way more windows and caused way more commotion than these protests to get on the right side of civil rights, Vietnam, the Iraq war, gay marriage and many other issues, and it's always always involve talking shit about their failings. This is how it's supposed to work in a Democracy. This is a healthy process.
And my point is city politics are not federal politics.

The fed/state party can only do so much here. Like I said, keep them accountable for this and make sure we get it right but municipal government isn't the same voting or issue dynamics that GOP vs Dem is. Most of us who actively follow municipal politics don't even know why there are parties. Most of the issues in city governance are very localized and have little to do with macro scale party issues. For most cities (barring the major metros) 90% of the municipal government is budgeting, planning and basic infrastructure. Social issues and macro economic aren't really on the table most city council meetings and while a place like Seattle or Chicago can touch up with those issues (Unions, Stop and Frisk, policing and the like) most municipal governance doesn't even touch the party apparatus. The whole reason cities even try to get the "party" to come to their city is the same reason cities chase after the Olympics. That sweet sweet tax revenue.

It's not healthy when I see it put into the context of both sides are the same. And it's tiring always having to have this conversation. (This isn't directed at you but the greater whole).
 
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TheHunter

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774


This is another thing long time coming.

We don't need to give air to both sides of an issue if one side is clearly nuts/evil. We don't need to actually hear what Nazi's have to say on race relations NYT.
 
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