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US PoliEra 2020 |OT6| I will not be closing this thread when the second wave hits.
- Thread starter TheHunter
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Not with that speech invoking MLK's name to say "we didn't protest like this when MLK died". like... okay? shut up.
I'm such a tease!
Seriously though I've beaten on it before but dealing with police unions isn't going to be a comfortable thing for most local Democratic politicians and will be divisive among their allies. Small-c conservatives supporting the moves will help.
In 2020 even (the vast majority of) small c conservatives stand with the police above anyone else.
I agree but I also recognize he has to win an election and minimize any potential positions that would be political poison. I think that sucks, but it is what it is. That said, January 21, you have my sword, my liege.
I know your position and you know I'm a dirty capitalist boy. I simply want to ensure we are in an environment where we can at least make improvements with the confines that we are strapped to. I don't hate on socialism (I'll be honest I'm nowhere as versed as you), I just want to to start enacting change, however small it is.
The entire modern LGBT movement, and all the rights we have gained and the changes that have happened, came from a riot. Because people who had been silenced and beaten so often eventually pushed back in the only way they could.
And yes, they burnt buildings. And trashed police cars. And fought and kicked and screamed.
And, ultimately, *they won*.
So don't tell me that rioting accomplishes nothing.
Well, you know, there's a great place full of resources to read from...
The amount of genuine libertarians is vanishingly small. Police unions are probably the one kind of union Republicans like!
Virginia GOP on Twitter
“Today, the Republican Party of Virginia called on Delegate Lee Carter (D-Manassas) to resign for abusing his power as an elected official in the Commonwealth of Virginia to bully and intimidate law enforcement officers and threaten to cut police budgets. https://t.co/7RX54ImRl6”twitter.com
Good shit.
We need more politicians like Lee who aren't afraid to pull police funding if they don't reform
My existence in PoliEra is tenuous enough, want my career on Wall Street to come up in Socialism Era? Lol 😂
Anybody actually saying "just vote!" is definitely missing the point (tho I haven't seen nearly as many posts saying that as posts complaining about it, fwiw). Like, even at a most basic, non-crisis level, it's not like you're supposed to elect the right people and then tune out forever. You always have to keep folks' feet to the fire. There'll always be something new they're not addressing, something old they're not addressing well enough. No elected official is perfect, and constant community engagement on some level is always necessary.
What's going on now is a crisis. It's actually no fewer than 4 at once, off the top of my head. So, yeah, people are pushing for change now, and they're right to. Not all change that needs to happen can happen in the short term, but it has to start there. We can't wait until November for things to start getting better. By all means, everybody should vote, but that's not all that has to be done. For starters, we need to start putting enough pressure on local politicians that it outweighs the pressure they get from police unions. What's going on now (in the abstract) is a pretty great way to do that, tbh.
What's going on now is a crisis. It's actually no fewer than 4 at once, off the top of my head. So, yeah, people are pushing for change now, and they're right to. Not all change that needs to happen can happen in the short term, but it has to start there. We can't wait until November for things to start getting better. By all means, everybody should vote, but that's not all that has to be done. For starters, we need to start putting enough pressure on local politicians that it outweighs the pressure they get from police unions. What's going on now (in the abstract) is a pretty great way to do that, tbh.
So your point is that bc there was a riot early in the history of the LGBT movement, that's the reason for all of that community's gains? That's a take. How did they ultimately win? Through public opinion and local, state, federal gov't, and the SC enshrining their rights through elected power. And they are still under siege!
Violence can be a spark for change, but you're giving it way too much credit. I am not saying just vote btw. This disaster Voltron requires significant change.
He was employed because of voting though. We can't keep doing this every time a bad cop hurts or kills somebody. That happens a lot!
This situation has called for rioting, but the end state has to be voting in politicians who don't hire people like Chauvin. This was not even close to his first rodeo on abusing power.
Camden, NJ seems to have been doing pretty well after dissolving their city police (to dissolve the union contract they had) and instituting a much better county police department. That should be a common question for politicians ("will you consider that?") and it should be a big goal for activists. Long-term, we need to turn cops back into public servants instead of the prison guards they are now. They don't view citizens as people to protect and serve, they see people (predominantly black people) as dangerous cons just waiting to do crime. That's toxic as hell, and any cop currently employed was trained, hired, and paid in that system. We need to keep politicians honest on the trail, and vote them into office.
Sometimes it helps. Sometimes it helps get Richard Nixon elected. Sometimes it helps George Wallace. MLK specifically warned about it in '68.
GOP is spending 20million + to keep you from voting, that should tell you something.
If the cops want it to stop, they know what to do. And if they won't stop, they must be made to stop.
I mean, fuck, I'm not saying don't vote, lol. It's still a damn powerful tool, despite what the cynics would say.
It's just... not enough, by itself. Never has been.
All? No. A lot? Yes. Stonewall was huge, as were many other queer protests/riots before and after. I agree that you need to vote afterwards (as I posted above) but the first Pride was literally a riot
It wasn't directed at you. Voting is only one ingreditent in the recipe
There was nothing without stonewall. The riot was not the end point, but it was the match that lit everything afterwards. Gay people had been trying for decades for equal rights and had failed completely. After Stonewall, everything was different.
There's a reason it's the keystone of modern lgbt rights movements. Without the stonewall riots, you dont Have any of the other stuff.
Stonewall it such a weird example for the effectiveness of violent protest. It ignores that the gay community was more aggressively persecuted for the next 25 years until public attitudes finally changed. Andrew Sullivan is generally awful but his writing on how liberals gave up on LGBTQ rights in the 90's is completely on point.
The fact you're referencing Andrew Sullivan, known shit lord and holder of terrible views should tell you all you need to know. Someone who is terrible in every other aspect of their life (especially in how they talk about gay rights and gay people!) isn't to be trusted or listened to on one particular topic.
Like, I really suggest reading a book or two on the topic before you come out with views like this on topics you clearly don't understand. Sorry for sounding rude but this is silly.
p.s. I was campaigning for gay rights in the 90s...
:O my neighbors are pretty loud and I can hear them through my bathroom window sometimes. I just overheard them talking and the old guy in there is saying how Trump is being a fucking idiot for not listening to the protesters and is instead trying to further antagonize things. My mind is blown.
Dude he's become so brazingly dangerous, do brazingly racist.
Even the racist tip toers are going ( dude.. you.. need to stop. )
Ben Smith on Twitter
“CNN's Jeff Zucker is thinking about running for Mayor of New York next year https://t.co/SPH9ztdE4f”
At least the press conferences will be highly produced
Not a shot in hell.
They should dress the bunker up like the oval office and let him play pretend president down there for the rest of his life.
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No, in Minneapolis the police union is actually stronger than other cities.
Many activists and democrats have tried to bring it to heel. No absolving all cities or democrats but Police Unions have ridiculous power that if other unions had(outside maybe Chicago unions) business would be trembling in their boots.
Can't wait for tone deaf comments on race during the election. No way black folks vote for an of these clowns
Well, that just fits with my point then - change doesn't come from voting in "the right people", because even the best intentioned people struggle against institutional factors. The only way to overcome that is with mass pressure.
Do you actually care about black bodies or is everything about political ramifications?
"What has rioting accomplished"
I don't even know where to start there's so much wrong with this post. You are not helping.
Mass pressure on the right people? You can put mass pressure on most Republican politicians, but they don't care because likely the protesters in that case aren't going to vote for them anyway. Yeah I agree with that.
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Much like the GOP has to use coded words and dog whistles so do we Democrats.
We can actually condone the rioting and such but we can signal we support the cause. Yeah we have to "tsk tsk" the looting and crime but deep in our(politicians) hearts we support it. Some are shit yeah (cuomo I'm looking at you) but others have shown they believe in justice.
We have the moment and momentum; keep up the pressure until they(the police and white supremacy) screams out uncle. Then, keep the boot on white nationalism and fascism's throat.
If it were peaceful It would be ignored. Like it historically ( last 15+ years ) has been ignored.
It's not much but the shitty misogynistic asshole coworker that I despised got fired today.
He bought beer for a girl under 21 and got caught.
Feels good, some bit of justice at least
He bought beer for a girl under 21 and got caught.
Feels good, some bit of justice at least
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Oh I agree.
I just don't like this feeding the both sides narrative. You may see some Dem mayors being assholes and some dems put their foot in their mouth but the majority have been on the side of the protests overwhelmingly.
Don't tell people not to vote. Tell them to vote AND do something about it. Donate to just causes, speak out at the family dinner table or call out a shithead when you see them. Every small action helps towards a better tomorrow.
Some dems vs no Repubs. I am very disappointed in Tim Walz though. The union must have his ass hard.
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Unfortunately that's the case in a lot of places.
Police unions are easy wins for democratic mayors/govs. Look no further than IL. This is the last bastion of old union power in the US.
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Perfect is the enemy of good. Then when Biden doesn't win they'll say he didn't excite us, and it'll be four more years of everything getting worse and courts lost for generation. I agree with others here, he is handling the situation extremely well, about as well as could be expected. It'll never be enough for some though.
Not only that, it wasn't even him who called in the Guard, it was the Governor.
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