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metalslimer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,558
So does Biden being an alleged rapist just not fucking matter or something? It doesn't seem to have had any effect on his poll numbers, media has largely ignored it, and it seems like the collective response of the nation has been to just shrug and forget about it.

I fucking hate this country. Fuck. I always vote, and I'll be voting downballot this year, but I'm gonna write-in Warren for president. I cannot vote for someone I genuinely believe to be a rapist.

I had hoped this would cause him to drop out, but I guess Joe continues with the Trump strategy of never apologizing or admitting fault, and just waiting for the news cycle to move on.

The news media has had this other thing going on that is sucking the air out of the room. They are likely in the phase of trying to corroborate/investigate. Also no people are single mindedly focused on eliminating trump so unless there ends up being a deluge of more information that comes out people will ignore this because he is a white man.
 
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Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,604
The news media has had this other thing going on that is sucking the air out of the room. They are likely in the phase of trying to corroborate/investigate. Also no people are single mindedly focused on eliminating trump so unless there ends up being a deluge of more information that comes out people will ignore this because he is a white man.
Though at the same time I wonder how hard, if not impossible, it is to investigate something like this, talk to witnesses, hunt down relevant documents, etc. when you're not supposed to go anywhere or be near other people.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,973

The news media has had this other thing going on that is sucking the air out of the room. They are likely in the phase of trying to corroborate/investigate. Also no people are single mindedly focused on eliminating trump so unless there ends up being a deluge of more information that comes out people will ignore this because he is a white man.
[/QUOTE]
They've had Biden on a couple of times this week already, they had the opportunity to ask about it.
 

metalslimer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,558
Though at the same time I wonder how hard, if not impossible, it is to investigate something like this, talk to witnesses, hunt down relevant documents, etc. when you're not supposed to go anywhere or be near other people.

I mean it probably is but people do seem to keep breaking news stories so if they had the bandwidth right now I dont think it would be a huge impediment
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
Though at the same time I wonder how hard, if not impossible, it is to investigate something like this, talk to witnesses, hunt down relevant documents, etc. when you're not supposed to go anywhere or be near other people.
Per that Salon article, there were two people Reade told about the assault when it happened, her brother and a friend. Grim says he was able to talk to both of them, but Salon said they tried contacting the brother to no avail, and Reade wouldn't tell them who her friend was.
 

Ac30

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,527
London
Per that Salon article, there were two people Reade told about the assault when it happened, her brother and a friend. Grim says he was able to talk to both of them, but Salon said they tried contacting the brother to no avail, and Reade wouldn't tell them who her friend was.
That's very weird. The brother not wanting to talk after sharing with the intercept, I mean.
 

metalslimer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,558
The news media has had this other thing going on that is sucking the air out of the room. They are likely in the phase of trying to corroborate/investigate. Also no people are single mindedly focused on eliminating trump so unless there ends up being a deluge of more information that comes out people will ignore this because he is a white man.
They've had Biden on a couple of times this week already, they had the opportunity to ask about it.
[/QUOTE]

Well I mean it seems like a bad idea to go at him without having done your own investigation first. Once you do that you will probably lose access to ever do it again. Of course I wont deny that he is certainly getting special treatment. I just do think that everything else going on has definitely distracted the media from aggressively pursuing this.
 

Arm Van Dam

self-requested ban
Banned
Mar 30, 2019
5,951
Illinois

NEWS - Pro-Trump super PAC America First decided yesterday on a $10 mill ad buy over six weeks in PA, Wisc and MI, a mix of digital, cable and mail, per person familiar with it. The content will be exclusively anti-Biden. Comes as Priorities USA and other pro-Biden groups ramp up
White House officials and Trump advisers have complained for weeks about inaction from AF1, as Priorities USA has sharpened attacks against Trump. In a frozen political climate, campaign wanted super PAC to go at Biden now and allow campaign to husband resources.

In response to the Politico article from last week about why America First PAC hasn't done any ads
 

Newlib

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,822
I also think that this is a type of story that would just get buried right now. I would expect it to get major press coverage this summer.
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,898
The allegations were sent to numerous campaigns, media outlets, AOC, and even Ronan Farrow. If it could proven or corroborated, it would have been.
Cynically, she tipped her hand last April by not going out with her full story. That means if it did occur, the Biden campaign has had a year to run down every lead and ensure nothing could really be proven which would probably why they'd be so confident to ask reporters to thoroughly vet the accusation.
 

Yoma

Member
Oct 25, 2017
638
The media is not "ignoring" the allegations. Allegations like this are handled very seriously and must be investigated thoroughly, the media would be incredibly foolish to just run a report that isn't substantiated enough. I will continue to assume no judgment on either party until there's more information.
 

KingK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,836
This might be a good article for you:

https://www.salon.com/2020/03/31/a-...-hell-breaks-loose-online-heres-what-we-know/



If there's more to the story, it'll come out when guys like Farrow have been able to thoroughly vet and corroborate it. I'm not saying that to pass judgment on whether Reade's accusation was true or not.
Thanks.

My issue with the "let's wait and see what happens" takes is that it almost always works against the victim.

If this happened in 1993 and nobody witnessed it other than the two involved, then what is further digging really going to reveal? It's just he said, she said. By all means, further investigation should happen to see what you can and can't verify. But to constantly pour cold water on the situation in the meantime with calls to wait for investigations before reacting, when those investigations will in all likelihood never be definitive, just really plays out to the disadvantage of the victim.

Between all of the previous sexual harassment allegations, and I recall a poster in here months ago claiming his wife's employee had her ass grabbed by Biden, Joe Biden absolutely displays a pattern that only reinforces the credibility of the new allegation.

I believe Reade, and unless there's some concrete evidence revealed that definitively proves she was making it up, I will not vote for Joe Biden. It was already a struggle to justify voting for him given all the harassment allegations, but I'm fucking done with him now.

All of that without even mentioning his shitty politics, record, and open disdain towards young people and disregard of their concerns. That's whatever, and I'd still vote for him without a second thought in November. But I will not cross the line of voting for someone I honestly think committed rape. I would not have voted for Bill Clinton either. I've really been struggling with this, because Trump is so disastrous and dangerous, but at least I live in Indiana so it ultimately doesn't matter.
 

Newlib

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,822
With corroboration, maybe. Without, no one will touch it but Republican fear mongering machines.

Even without corroboration, Trump will bring it up and then the allegations themselves would become a story whether or not the media can corroborate them. If you don't think the airways are going to be full of ads calling Biden a serial rapist all summer and fall you are deluding yourself. And they will likely work. What can Biden say? I said believe women but not this woman.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
Have Republicans even touched it? Fox put out the most milquetoast article ever on it and didn't even feature it.
On one hand Republicans are giant hypocrites who wouldn't mind hypocritical attacks on Biden's sexual assault history, on the other hand I wonder if they're holding back because they don't wanna highlight it bc Trump/Kavanaugh
 

Yoma

Member
Oct 25, 2017
638
Even without corroboration, Trump will bring it up and then the allegations themselves would become a story whether or not the media can corroborate them. If you don't think the airways are going to be full of ads calling Biden a serial rapist all summer and fall you are deluding yourself. And they will likely work. What can Biden say? I said believe women but not this woman.
We're talking about a man that has 20+ allegations himself.
 

SmokeMaxX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,336
Are people really worried about what Trump says? Trump also called most Mexican people rapists. It doesn't matter what the allegation is, people are going to be predisposed to either believing what Trump says no matter what or being skeptical of what Trump says no matter what. He's extremely polarizing and he's either not-trustworthy (if you live in reality) or Jesus reborn (if you don't live in reality). This is just like the concern-trolling about how Trump is supposedly going to demolish Biden in the debates. In reality, he's just going to mock Biden's dead family members and make fun of his stutter. Trump is a very stupid, very racist, very sexist bully and people giving him credit for anything positive is mind-blowing.
 

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,729
Even without corroboration, Trump will bring it up and then the allegations themselves would become a story whether or not the media can corroborate them. If you don't think the airways are going to be full of ads calling Biden a serial rapist all summer and fall you are deluding yourself. And they will likely work. What can Biden say? I said believe women but not this woman.
"Believe women" means you treat allegations as credible and investigate them; you don't dismiss them summarily, as happened with Cosby and Weinstein's accusers for decades. Biden has said he welcomes the investigation. Of course he denies it! Whether he did or didn't do it, do you really expect him to say, "Yeah, I did it, peace out"?

The term does not mean you pronounce someone guilty immediately. You look for evidence, establish a pattern of behavior, and try to find other accusers. Cosby and Weinstein? Scores of accusers. Kavanaugh? Two credible accusers and supporting documentation such as his calendars and Dr. Ford's therapist's notes. Franken? Multiple women saying he had groped or molested them in some way. Some of those crimes you couldn't prove in a legal sense - mostly Kavanaugh's - but you can show that they very likely happened. Case in point, the public believed Dr. Ford! The Senate GOP just plugged their ears.
 

less

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,835
Cynically, she tipped her hand last April by not going out with her full story. That means if it did occur, the Biden campaign has had a year to run down every lead and ensure nothing could really be proven which would probably why they'd be so confident to ask reporters to thoroughly vet the accusation.

If Biden campaign was smart they absolutely would have gone through everything with regards to Reade. I don't know whether his campaign was up to that task back in early 2019 with everything else going on.

Wouldn't it be really stupid of trump to bring this up when he himself has several accusations against him that Biden can bring up?

Yeah but Trump is stupid so it would be par the course for him to bring it up.
 

Ac30

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,527
London
Even without corroboration, Trump will bring it up and then the allegations themselves would become a story whether or not the media can corroborate them. If you don't think the airways are going to be full of ads calling Biden a serial rapist all summer and fall you are deluding yourself. And they will likely work. What can Biden say? I said believe women but not this woman.

Trump bringing this up isn't the slam-dunk some people think. Those videos of Biden touching people have been out for aeons and it did fuck-all for him. Besides, it's Uncle Joe!

And?! When has blatant hypocrisy ever blunted a Republican attack? We're also talking about the man who brought Bill's victims to a debate with Hillary, despite those 20+ allegations against himself.

Yes, and you'll notice he's not particularly popular with women.
 

thethickofit

Member
Feb 1, 2018
558
"Believe women" means you treat allegations as credible and investigate them; you don't dismiss them summarily, as happened with Cosby and Weinstein's accusers for decades. Biden has said he welcomes the investigation. Of course he denies it! Whether he did or didn't do it, do you really expect him to say, "Yeah, I did it, peace out"?
Yes, I expect him to resign just like Al Franken did.
 

KingK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,836
Wouldn't it be really stupid of trump to bring this up when he himself has several accusations against him that Biden can bring up?

Except that's exactly what he did against Hillary in 2016 and he won, so....I don't see it deterring him (and those weren't even her victims, they were her husband's).
 

less

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,835
Yes, I expect him to resign just like Al Franken did.

Al Franken was railroaded into resigning. He himself was calling for an investigation to be done. Since then some of the people that called for him to resign have expressed that they would have done things differently if they had the chance. I.e. having an investigation done instead of straight up calling for a resignation.

I don't see that happening this time.
 

Newlib

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,822
We're talking about a man that has 20+ allegations himself.

When has Trump being a hypocrite stopped him from doing anything? The point of the ads won't be win the anti-rape vote for Trump. The people who vote for Trump have already chosen they don't believe accusers. Bad faith ads aren't going to change their mind.

Instead, the point of the ads are to keep women home on Election Day. You don't think an ad saying "Do you want to vote for a serial rapist?" won't keep some people at home? Of course it will. Will the Hispanic woman who is already questionable on her Biden support choose to still vote for him when he may have raped someone.

Once again, Biden has no counter. Trump did it too is an incredibly bad argument. So is don't believe this woman when Biden is on the record saying women should be believed.
 

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,729
Al Franken was railroaded into resigning. He himself was calling for an investigation to be done. Since then some of the people that called for him to resign have expressed that they would have done things differently if they had the chance. I.e. having an investigation done instead of straight up calling for a resignation.

I don't see that happening this time.
He CHOSE to resign before the ethics investigation!
 

Ac30

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,527
London
Also, from the Salon article:
It's important to understand here that Time's Up Legal Defense Fund only provides support beyond these referrals — such as PR assistance — if a client obtains a lawyer and moves to take legal action against workplace harassment. But Reade told Salon she wasn't interested in suing Biden. Instead, she was angry "about the smears about being a Russian agent" from Biden supporters and was hoping a lawyer could find a way to stop them.

One law firm Reade spoke with confirmed that they would not take a case with the ambiguous goal of trying to shut down people on social media who were speculating about an accuser being a "Russian agent."

Carrie Goldberg runs a firm dedicated to defending women against sexual abuse. Time's Up helped Reade set up a meeting with her. Goldberg told Salon that she would not "comment on who reaches out to our firm for help" but said that "our firm never hesitates to take on powerful adversaries." She said her firm is not, however, in the business of threatening "to sue conspiracy theorists for potentially protected speech."
I get it, stopping trolls from harassing you is something we can all get behind, but why go to Time's Up for that?
 

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,729
He had several accusers already before this! It was just all harassment up until now, but let's not pretend we have absolutely no evidence of a pattern.
Biden has had trouble respecting personal boundaries, has made women uncomfortable, and has engaged in behavior that can be construed as harassment.

That's a couple of leagues away from rape, penetration, which Ms. Reade has alleged. I think we should allow the claim to be investigated.
 

Adder7806

Member
Dec 16, 2018
4,121
If you care about women's rights you vote for Biden.

If you don't care about women's rights you don't vote or vote for Trump.

One of the two will be President next January. There are no other options.

One of those two will replace RBG. Only one will replace her with someone that will protect women's rights.

It is so extremely short sighted not to vote for Biden. If you don't, despite his massive shortcomings, you don't really care about women's rights.
 

AndyD

Mambo Number PS5
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,602
Nashville
"Believe women" means you treat allegations as credible and investigate them; you don't dismiss them summarily, as happened with Cosby and Weinstein's accusers for decades. Biden has said he welcomes the investigation. Of course he denies it! Whether he did or didn't do it, do you really expect him to say, "Yeah, I did it, peace out"?

The term does not mean you pronounce someone guilty immediately. You look for evidence, establish a pattern of behavior, and try to find other accusers. Cosby and Weinstein? Scores of accusers. Kavanaugh? Two credible accusers and supporting documentation such as his calendars and Dr. Ford's therapist's notes. Franken? Multiple women saying he had groped or molested them in some way. Some of those crimes you couldn't prove in a legal sense - mostly Kavanaugh's - but you can show that they very likely happened. Case in point, the public believed Dr. Ford! The Senate GOP just plugged their ears.
This. To treat "believe the victim" otherwise would open you up to malicious attack from actual liars. It should mean investigate and cooperate, not give up.
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
Al Franken was railroaded into resigning. He himself was calling for an investigation to be done. Since then some of the people that called for him to resign have expressed that they would have done things differently if they had the chance. I.e. having an investigation done instead of straight up calling for a resignation.

I don't see that happening this time.
Yeah no, fuck this. Franken was my hero but him resigning was absolutely the right thing to do. The picture was the most damning evidence but if it had ended there, he probably could have weathered it, but it was the near-dozen women who accused him of playing grab-ass (with documented social media posts dating back years, suggesting it wasn't just an out-of-the-blue allegation) that did him in.

Biden's up to one accuser who's made her story public, a story that has yet to play out fully in the press and the court of public opinion. It's hardly an equivalent situation.

"Franken was railroaded" fucking hell.
 

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,729
Hmm. According to an article I had read a while back my understanding was that he was under pressure from Schumer and Dem brass to resign which kinda makes sense due to the optics of Roy Moore and the AL race going on.
What were they gonna do, leave a horse head in his bed? Primary him? His next election was three years away!

He chose to resign before the investigation.
 

Clowns

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,858
there is insufficient blaming of Kirsten Gillibrand for Al Franken's bullshit going on here.
 

Sou Da

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,738
This whole thread right now just reminds me of that Pam Keith tweet that for some reason was passed over so that y'all could lose your minds over yet another Briahna Gray tweet.
 
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