User banned (1 day): hostility against another member
sorry that people hate TERF defenders
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US PoliEra 2020 |OT4| Disaster Voltron
- Thread starter Ogodei
- Start date
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sorry that people hate TERF defenders
And we're farther behind than New York.
Hopefully we shut down enough to keep us from peaking as high as they will, but it's going to be brutal in the coming weeks. The US is still on track to overtake Italy by week's end.
All the usual suspects are showing up, so duh. The brigading seems to be on a monthly schedule these days.
Adam should know better than to engage, however.
Dr. Ford's allegations were investigated by mainstream outlets, and other women such as Deborah Ramirez disclosed their allegations. People did believe her because of the weight of her own words and because the press's investigations corroborated her story (to the extent that they could), along with other victims.
People did believe her; it's just that the Senate GOP chose not to.
I completely agree with this. Regardless of party, we have to stand by victims and Biden already has a background in ignoring boundaries publically. I believe the same thing about Bill Clinton and looking back on that time, I am aghast that there were feminist organizations and so called liberals attacking Bill Clinton's victims. The scandal taught him nothing too because he was on Epstein plane. The same will be true of Biden if he survives this, he will learn nothing.
There's this idea in sociology called elite deviance, where the crimes and cruelties of the most powerful people in the world have far reaching consequences but a culture of letting it all slide encourages more of it. This is true of rape which is not in any way a white collar crime but similar structures protect the powerful people who engage in it.
That's all any of this is. Dumbass forum wars from people who should know better.
I can't really agree with that, because that ignores how investigations can be politicized/weaponized against the victim.
Like, look at Kavanaugh for instance. That was a case where there WERE witnesses/corroborating accounts of his actions... but the FBI ignored them, deliberately avoided asking them anything just so they could go "we couldn't find any evidence" (ignoring the fact that we literally weren't allowed to), and that was weaponized against his victims and used to be enough justification to put him on the Court.
This is a case where there are no witnesses from what I understand, just her and Biden. So what's an investigation supposed to, well, investigate as a result of that? What could such an investigation possibly conclude other than "no evidence, one way or the other"... which, unfortunately, because of how sexist our country is and stuff, is instantly weaponized against the woman despite that not meaning that she's not telling the truth, just that literally no evidence can be found one way or the other, but that's how that type of thing tends to be interpreted regardless, that the woman must be lying then, so I just don't get the point of saying "wait for an investigation."
That's just pretending that we don't know how that would go down from the word go, and we do. No evidence will be found one way or the other, because obviously that's impossible since it only involved Biden and her to begin with, and when people hear "no evidence" despite that not actually being what those words mean, they conclude the victim must have just been lying the whole time regardless.
Like, I felt the same way when the stuff regarding Al Franken was breaking, when people were proposing "no, no, don't step down now, just wait for an investigation, just wait for an investigation" and I felt the same way then... what would those hypothetical investigations and ethics evaluations and the like accomplish? No matter what they do or don't find, because of how these things go, how would that not inherently work in Franken's favor, if only to give stuff a time to "blow over"?
Like, either you believe them or you don't. Saying "wait for an investigation" in something that's literally he said/she said, that it's impossible for an investigation to turn anything up regardless is just PR speak for "yes, I might personally believe, but whether I believe you or not, I want a situation most advantageous to me which in this case is putting things on a delay favorable to me by calling for an investigation that allows me to survive the initial stories, and then wait for the "no conclusive evidence" stories to come out, which even if I believer her, will allow me to use that to make it all go away regardless."
Like, what am I missing here? Just like with Franken, I'm very confused by any calls for "wait for an investigation" because in a he said/she said situation like this, how is an investigation supposed to wind up any other way but discrediting the victim entirely, regardless of what actually is or isn't true?
If you're saying "just wait for the result of an investigation" you might as well skip right to dismissing her, because unfortunately that's how any such thing will be used in the end, there's no way it can find any evidence even if the claims are 100% true, there's no way that such a thing could be helpful to anyone not named Joe Biden, so trying to in any way pretend such a thing would be done out of any consideration of the victim whatsoever, that it's done to respect her when there's no way such a thing could actually help or validate or her claims in any way just comes off the wrong way, even if I'm 99% confident you don't actually mean it that way at all (and I'm very sure you don't).
But this is one of those things that regardless of how you mean it, I suppose how to put it, this is one of those things that seem like it might be common sense that really aren't? That like, calling for an investigation, that seems like something that would be respectful towards the victim to give their claim credence when you first say it and think about it...
But then, when you apply any more thought to it, when you realize it's a he said/she said with no witnesses, how both the delay caused by an investigation itself and the inevitable result of "no evidence" will go over, how is such a thing supposed to be respectful or helpful to the victim when there's practically no chance of it turning up anything and instead a way higher chance of it being weaponized against them right from the word "go"?
Like I said, I don't really like that answer when people started talking about it with Franken, and I don't like it here, no matter how well-intentioned the, well, intent and motives are of those proposing such things. Otherwise answer me: what will you response be when the investigation, like it 99% is likely to, turns back no evidence and is weaponized against her? What do you say then? Let's just skip to that part?
That we're still right where we are now, except the victim is inherently in a much worse position despite the situation not actually having changed at all. We will still know just as much/little as we do now, but it will "feel" like we know more and "feel" like the victim's story is more rocky just by the fact the investigation was conducted and turned up such, despite technically still being in the position we are here and now.
So yeah, that's something that may seem like a good answer at first, it's something that might "feel" good, but knowing how those things tend to go, I really don't like at all, for those kinda reasons (and I definitely started rambling more than a little there, as I tend to do, especially on topics I'm especially passionate on or flustered by, so hope that makes sense despite the rambling).
It's like we have an amendment between the 24th and 26th ones that we've somehow decided just doesn't exist.
god, the amount of pregaming we're doing on justifying a November loss is a lot to deal with
Every woman should be heard. Every single one. Tying your testimony to a hashtag supporting another candidate is absurd and takes away credibility. That's all I'm saying.
Make your statement. Be heard. Don't attach it to Bernie Sanders because it makes you look untrustworthy when he is currently running against the guy you're accusing. Any good lawyer would have shut that down instantly.
You can make a fair case that watching the daily briefings are bad for your sanity, but I actually see it differently. It comforts me, bleakly, that, hey, at least my state is taking this more seriously, and that I feel way the crap safer under lockdown here because I don't have to obey the day-to-day instructions of this lunatic.
It's weekly numbers, yes? I thought the monthlies were on the first friday of every month.
We are assuming a lot based on an avatar. And sphagnum, that is not appropriate or welcome here. You might not like Hillary, a lot don't, but that doesn't give you the right to put others down.
Rep. Katie Porter on Twitter
“Over the weekend, I had a fever over 100.4 degrees. As instructed, I continued to isolate in my bedroom and phoned my provider. I carefully followed all instructions to visit my doctor and received a test for COVID-19. I am waiting for results. (3/4)”
twitter.com
Rep. Katie Porter on Twitter
“I will remain in self-quarantine until I have the test results back and until directed by my doctor that it is safe for me to leave my home. I am participating by telephone in Congressional business and listening to the concerns of our Orange County community. (4/4)”
twitter.com
If you have a problem with my post, go report it to a mod.
Trying to brute force though it sure in hell not going to help lol
Rep. Katie Porter on Twitter
“Over the weekend, I had a fever over 100.4 degrees. As instructed, I continued to isolate in my bedroom and phoned my provider. I carefully followed all instructions to visit my doctor and received a test for COVID-19. I am waiting for results. (3/4)”
Rep. Katie Porter on Twitter
“I will remain in self-quarantine until I have the test results back and until directed by my doctor that it is safe for me to leave my home. I am participating by telephone in Congressional business and listening to the concerns of our Orange County community. (4/4)”
Oh no
Thank you, it's not hard to stand with the victims. It's still gross to me that people like Trump, Clinton, and Biden are able to get away with things like this without any consequences. The downplaying I saw on the board today about the news today was disgusting, to the point some users were claiming it was fake news or derailing it about Bernie.
That news about Porter isn't great to hear, I hope she isn't too bad.
Rep. Katie Porter on Twitter
“Over the weekend, I had a fever over 100.4 degrees. As instructed, I continued to isolate in my bedroom and phoned my provider. I carefully followed all instructions to visit my doctor and received a test for COVID-19. I am waiting for results. (3/4)”
Rep. Katie Porter on Twitter
“I will remain in self-quarantine until I have the test results back and until directed by my doctor that it is safe for me to leave my home. I am participating by telephone in Congressional business and listening to the concerns of our Orange County community. (4/4)”
Aw hell.
First Ben, and now Katie.
We're not having good luck with our freshmen from swing districts.
We're not having good luck with our freshmen from swing districts.
Shout out to our friend Sue.
Rep. Katie Porter on Twitter
“Over the weekend, I had a fever over 100.4 degrees. As instructed, I continued to isolate in my bedroom and phoned my provider. I carefully followed all instructions to visit my doctor and received a test for COVID-19. I am waiting for results. (3/4)”
Rep. Katie Porter on Twitter
“I will remain in self-quarantine until I have the test results back and until directed by my doctor that it is safe for me to leave my home. I am participating by telephone in Congressional business and listening to the concerns of our Orange County community. (4/4)”
That's my local rep, canvassed for her in 2018... hoping for the best.
Just to add on to what other posters said, this is a 28 year old accusation with no witnesses, that I'm aware of. You can't investigate it. It's her word versus his (I believe he hasn't addressed this accusation specifically?) The only thing I would say corroborates this is that Joe Biden has a public record of not respecting the personal boundaries of women, and being publicly inappropriate with them. I don't like his politics, wasn't planning on voting for him in the general election regardless, but this accusation, along with the others plus his public behavior, looks awful.
What if-
(bear with me here)
we stan a TERF instead?
What if-
(bear with me here)
we stan a TERF instead?
Yes, the FBI conducted a sham investigation to appease Trump, but the press conducted investigations, corroborated her story as much as they could, and worked with other victims. A great deal of the general public (not enough, I concede) believed her and opposed Kavanaugh's confirmation. The Senate GOP cravenly and callously stuck their fingers in their ears and confirmed him.
Credible investigations - by which I mean those not compromised like the FBI's - do help.
Biden probably did that shit, but he's also the only alternative to Trump, so he'll get my vote.
That he was a racist who worked to lock black kids out of equal education didn't stop me from supporting him, and I'm black. Yeah, this dude was an obvious piece of shit, especially in this time period where this allegation is coming from. So, no, this doesn't surprise me, but this is America! So people will look past this, and I'm going to hold my nose and pull the Goddamned lever for him, metaphorically speaking, because we live in a shithole country and these are the fucked up compromises that I have to make at a voter.
That he was a racist who worked to lock black kids out of equal education didn't stop me from supporting him, and I'm black. Yeah, this dude was an obvious piece of shit, especially in this time period where this allegation is coming from. So, no, this doesn't surprise me, but this is America! So people will look past this, and I'm going to hold my nose and pull the Goddamned lever for him, metaphorically speaking, because we live in a shithole country and these are the fucked up compromises that I have to make at a voter.
Trump is going to set a new record tomorrow. Something else he can claim over Obama. Highest ever weekly unemployment claims was 695K (Reagan). Trump is probably going to have multiple millions.
Rep. Katie Porter on Twitter
“Over the weekend, I had a fever over 100.4 degrees. As instructed, I continued to isolate in my bedroom and phoned my provider. I carefully followed all instructions to visit my doctor and received a test for COVID-19. I am waiting for results. (3/4)”
Rep. Katie Porter on Twitter
“I will remain in self-quarantine until I have the test results back and until directed by my doctor that it is safe for me to leave my home. I am participating by telephone in Congressional business and listening to the concerns of our Orange County community. (4/4)”
Damnit. Hope she recovers well. She's been such an excellent addition to congress =/
It was my fault for thinking it was a good faith discussion.
Hell, the fact that Collins will probably lose this November partly because of her Kavanaugh vote shows that people did believe Dr. Ford and oppose Kavanuagh. The comeuppance will just take two years.
Don't worry, I did. I just wanted to voice my thoughts on that what you did was wrong.
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I already said I think I'm not against an investigation. I'm also not talking about strengthening Biden politically, I'm saying it would very likely boost Biden's credibility and severely harm hers, in regards to the rape allegations (in the sense that there is no evidence so he looks like he's cleared and it's used against the accuser unfairly). Because that's the way this shit usually goes. Look at the Kav stuff. It ended up being her word against his, and people in power find ways to come out of it unscathed and in some cases even better than before in terms of reputation.
If corroborating evidence/information comes and boosts her credibility (in the eyes of the public), great. But my point is that the investigation will very likely be used as a bludgeon against the accuser. Because investigations in this context are very rarely just 1:1 about delivering all the information in a fair way. They're usually about using grey areas to form a narrative that hurts victims.
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Damn, that's some disappointing news for the day. I believe her, and I say that as someone who ended up voting for Biden (With the added caveat he wasn't anywhere close to my first choice in this primary.)
I just hope the news can work to corroborate the story.
I just hope the news can work to corroborate the story.
Well they owe it to actually do an investigation before the convention in order to know how to proceed.
This is how I feel. I'm surprised no other publication has printed this story, even highlighting the allegation. I assume they're doing their own due diligence on the matter, so I'll wait to see what comes out of this.
It's really odd, as you'd think even someone like Daily Caller would've had something on this in a heartbeat. We'll see I guess.
You're right in that it's an unfortunate situation, where the victim is almost always thrown under the bus. It's one of the reasons we should never elect men to anything. Just can't trust 'em. I just believe that a fair investigation is the best way to proceed. The issue is, as you said, "fair" is very subjective and hard to define in these situations which such an imbalance of power. At the end of the day, there's probably no good way to proceed. There's no harmless way to deal with things like this. Someone will be harmed, and more often than not, it is the victim.
I genuinely appreciate you engaging with me on this in good faith, though. Truly.
I'm not seeing this Biden accusation stuff anywhere on the major Twitter timelines, or the major websites. If this is the same woman who made an an accusation a year ago, nothing will probably come of this. If nothing was found then, (and there would have been incentive to find it then when you had several high profile female candidates still in the race) it won't be now.
But really, the fact that none of the major outlets is even giving it a mention is kind of a signal. They love drama and clicks, and if they're ignoring this, that says a lot.
But really, the fact that none of the major outlets is even giving it a mention is kind of a signal. They love drama and clicks, and if they're ignoring this, that says a lot.
Means testing the stimulus payment within JUST the range of $75-99k is absolutely ridiculous. The per child amount also goes down with higher incomes. A lot of middle-class white collar workers are going to get zilch.
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