• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Status
Not open for further replies.

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,215
Hilary Rosen is trash, and routinely steps in shit on TV. The Sanders campaign labeling her as a Biden surrogate and demanding Biden apologize is extremely sloppy, at best.
We all know what the play is. The next time (probably on a debate stage) someone brings up the poor behavior of Sanders' supporters online, Bernie will pivot to this. (That's not to say what she said is acceptable. It's not. She should never be allowed back on CNN ever again, but the play is to paint her as some kind of Biden surrogate so you can deflect to this. It's the Bernie play book.)
(But not the house. I guess I can stay there and do, uh, fun things with all the other people who have rentals in PS that weekend)
source.gif
 

Vector

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,657
I mean i can point out the obvious fact her electability argument is literally counter to reality right now. Call it whatever you want.
She's basing her argument on actual data, especially with regard to the latino vote which IS a core constituency that cannot be ignored. She's also right on independents according to polling we have.
 

FreezePeach

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,811
She's basing her argument on actual data, especially with regard to the latino vote which IS a core constituency that cannot be ignored. She's also right on independents according to polling we have.
Yes and when i look at what happened on Super Tuesday with all that wonderful data i see Biden as the guy that drew up turnout and new voters, along with succeeding pretty handily in key swing states, while Bernie couldnt draw out his base. Thats some good data too.
 

Vector

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,657
Yes and when i look at what happened on Super Tuesday with all that wonderful data i see Biden as the guy that drew up turnout and new voters, along with succeeding pretty handily in key swing states, while Bernie couldnt draw out his base. Thats some good data too.
But that doesn't contradict AOC's points! The bulk of Biden's base will turn out anyway because they're largely reliable voters - Sanders's base less so. She also has doubts Biden can turn out as many latino voters, which again, is a valid concern.

I don't get the need to immediately attack whatever she's saying as if she's clueless or hasn't looked at the data and that's exactly what you're doing. Frankly it's patronizing and you should stop.
 

FreezePeach

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,811
But that doesn't contradict AOC's points! The bulk of Biden's base will turn out anyway because they're largely reliable voters - Sanders's base less so. She also has doubts Biden can turn out as many latino voters, which again, is a valid concern.

I don't get the need to immediately attack whatever she's saying as if she's clueless or hasn't looked at the data and that's exactly what you're doing. Frankly it's patronizing and you should stop.
Don't know what need you are referring to, i'm usually supportive of her, but when i see her saying Bernie is more electable, i go 'lol'.
 

Wordballoons

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,061
Yes and when i look at what happened on Super Tuesday with all that wonderful data i see Biden as the guy that drew up turnout and new voters, along with succeeding pretty handily in key swing states, while Bernie couldnt draw out his base. Thats some good data too.
I'm leaning toward that these are new primary voters, but people who always show up for the general
 

Rampage

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,140
Metro Detriot
Would you like to talk to my Jewish friends and tell them they're not right to be offended?

No, I would like you to provide the actual Jewish slur entomology that you claim is correct, while ignoring the Irish entomology origins of the phrase that everyone else has provided.

Your Jewish friends, no matter how offended they are anecdotal evidence. They are not documented entomology that you are claiming. Just provide the proof.

This is the most detailed I've found, but it does not say "beyond the pale" is Jewish slur, where it say "Settlement of Pale" could be cause it is referring to ghettos in Russia.

You are conflating two similar sounding terms, one which has English roots, the other which has Russian roots to mean the same thing, when they clearer refer to two very different things.
 
Last edited:

Vector

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,657
Don't know what need you are referring to, i'm usually supportive of her, but when i see her saying Bernie is more electable, i go 'lol'.
She's a campaign surrogate and it's perfectly normal for her to make that argument. That reaction would be warranted if she didn't base her concerns on any data, but she did, so outright dismissing it is condescending.
 

Vector

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,657
We all know what the play is. The next time (probably on a debate stage) someone brings up the poor behavior of Sanders' supporters online, Bernie will pivot to this. (That's not to say what she said is acceptable. It's not. She should never be allowed back on CNN ever again, but the play is to paint her as some kind of Biden surrogate so you can deflect to this. It's the Bernie play book.)
When Bernie gets attacks re: his supporters it's perfectly fair game to flip it and show supporters of other candidates can be just as bad if not worse!
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,459
We all know what the play is. The next time (probably on a debate stage) someone brings up the poor behavior of Sanders' supporters online, Bernie will pivot to this. (That's not to say what she said is acceptable. It's not. She should never be allowed back on CNN ever again, but the play is to paint her as some kind of Biden surrogate so you can deflect to this. It's the Bernie play book.)
My guy, open the mentions of prominent leftists and tell me you don't see different flavours of Rosenesque rhetoric all over them — Bernie doesn't have a lock on internet shitheads
 

lush

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,804
Knoxville, TN
at least we'll get our tickets refunded :-\

(But not the house. I guess I can stay there and do, uh, fun things with all the other people who have rentals in PS that weekend)
I was planning to camp so I at least avoided that expense. Already purchased flights however and was waiting on the rental(prices have been dropping like crazy for W1 timeframe). This is a mess.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,550
We all know what the play is. The next time (probably on a debate stage) someone brings up the poor behavior of Sanders' supporters online, Bernie will pivot to this. (That's not to say what she said is acceptable. It's not. She should never be allowed back on CNN ever again, but the play is to paint her as some kind of Biden surrogate so you can deflect to this. It's the Bernie play book.)
She still was talking down to Turner to support Biden. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask Biden to denounce her behavior.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
The electability argument she's making is specifically Latinos in AZ- it's the only southwestern swing state. It's not a lie, it's just narrow.
 

FreezePeach

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,811
Exactly this, and she's not stupid or oblivious. She knows the polls show the opposite. She's just lying.
I mean she probably believes what she is saying, maybe, but the point really is its after significant voting has happened in more diverse states, and all i see is Bernie really really turning off older voters and not elevating his youth vote, along with almost everyone else endorsing Biden. So as things stand now, electability arguments are not in Bernie's favor.
 

Vector

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,657
Exactly this, and she's not stupid or oblivious. She knows the polls and the demographics show the opposite. She's just lying.
You can disagree with her on whatever point she's making but she's not lying in any way, just focusing on a few facets of the electability argument she considers to be important.
 

adamsappel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,503
No, I would like you to provide the actual Jewish slur entomology that you claim is correct, while ignoring the Irish entomology origins of the phrase that everyone else has provided.

Your Jewish friends, no matter how offended they are anecdotal evidence. They are not documented entomology that you are claiming. Just provide the proof.
You are a fun person to talk with. I didn't ignore the Irish origin of the phrase, I merely pointed out another. Wonderment provided a third. Yes, my evidence is anecdotal. I tend to take to heart what my friends tell me is problematic phrasing rather than rushing to the Internet to disabuse them of the notion they should be offended. Perhaps for your homework assignment you should visit a synagogue and throw the phrase around. Maybe it will mean nothing.

Oh, well, at least IggyChooChoo found something of interest in my posts. Take care, Rampage.

Also, "entomology" is the study of insects. No worries, I make that mistake too!
 

viskod

Member
Nov 9, 2017
4,396
I mean she probably believes what she is saying, maybe, but the point really is its after significant voting has happened in more diverse states, and all i see is Bernie really really turning off older voters and not elevating his youth vote, along with almost everyone else endorsing Biden. So as things stand now, electability arguments are not in Bernie's favor.

I just can't believe, or don't want to believe that she honestly thinks that. I like her a lot and if you've ever seen her question anyone in a hearing you know she is always on point, and always does her homework, and knows exactly what she's talking about. When it comes to her just not looking at any of the polling or primary results and talking without knowing anything or knowing what's what, and just propping up Sanders regardless I have to resort to believing the latter because I just can't believe she wouldn't be interested in the data.
 

shem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,955
I'm wondering if I'm going to the conference I spent a couple months writing a paper for last year. Hopefully but i'm not very optimistic.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,973
Well, maybe you learned something new today.

I know what the Pale of Settlement is. I had to correct Wonderment who said it was where Jews were prohibited. If you are "Beyond the Pale," you are where Jews are not allowed.

Would you like to talk to my Jewish friends and tell them they're not right to be offended?

We're getting into "bundle of sticks" territory here.

I found it interesting/ironic that Biden defended a Jewish man with a phrase that also has anti-Semitic origins.

I implied Biden's phrase could be misinterpreted, you inferred I said he was anti-Semitic.

No weaseling. He said the equivalent of "peanut gallery."

I was going to let it go, but adamsappel you're wrong. There were places in the zone where Jews were not allowed to live.

And no, that was not the origin of the phrase. Like I said, an attachment had developed over time.
 

plagiarize

It's not a loop. It's a spiral.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,555
Cape Cod, MA
I do not like Bernie's strategy of counter attacking. It is a valid strategy and we know it works but I don't like it.

I still prefer it over Biden's issues as a candidate, but I don't like it one bit.

He should stop. Apologizing is not weaknesses.
 

Rampage

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,140
Metro Detriot
You are a fun person to talk with. I didn't ignore the Irish origin of the phrase, I merely pointed out another. Wonderment provided a third. Yes, my evidence is anecdotal. I tend to take to heart what my friends tell me is problematic phrasing rather than rushing to the Internet to disabuse them of the notion they should be offended. Perhaps for your homework assignment you should visit a synagogue and throw the phrase around. Maybe it will mean nothing.

Also, "entomology" is the study of insects. No worries, I make that mistake too!
Well, I did your work for you

https://www.jewishpress.com/sections/features/features-on-jewish-world/beyond-the-pale/2015/05/08/


What's in a phrase? The familiar "beyond the pale" has an interesting history that may surprise many Jews whose families came from Eastern Europe. While today it means "outside agreed-upon standards of decency," in the past it meant, literally, to be outside the area accepted as "home" or "civilization." A pale was a stake or pointed piece of wood that was often used to build a fence. Inside the fence was the safety of one's known world. Beyond the palings was the great unknown.

An early political use of the word was the Pale in Ireland, also known as the English Pale. Within the boundaries of this medieval Pale located in eastern Ireland, English law was the rule. But perhaps the most famous Pale was the one founded by the Russian ruler Catherine the Great in 1791 to deal with her "Jewish problem." After this Pale was established, the vast majority of the Russian Empire's Jews were forced to live within its boundaries, and at its peak the Pale was home to about five million Jews, about 40 percent of world Jewry at the time.

Among those who suddenly found themselves confined within the Pale were Ukraine's Jews. But this end-of-the-century edict was just the last blow in what had been a tumultuous century, an era that began with edicts of expulsion, including one signed by an earlier empress who was also named Catherine.

More history at link.............


Yeah, I learned something new today. The phrase "beyond the pale"- to go beyond the boundies of the pale (pole/fence post) is clearly not the same as "Settlement of Pale" where Jews were confined in Russian city of Pale (aka a ghetto).

You should be ashamed that you are using your Jewish friend's horrible history to defined you trying to call Biden anti-Semitic, when he was clearly using the English meaning of the phrase. And no you are stilling using them as a guilt trip to cover up your mistake.

Whatever- you're on ignore.
 
Last edited:

Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
14,707
I was planning to camp so I at least avoided that expense. Already purchased flights however and was waiting on the rental(prices have been dropping like crazy for W1 timeframe). This is a mess.
Oh well at least you don't have to deal with the rental. Ours is non refundable so I'll be in the desert regardless.
 

CrabDust

Member
Nov 16, 2017
1,257
Walkin on eggshells in this thread. AOC is amazing, but she's wrong about Bernie being MORE electable.

In her examples she's laying out an EC path that Bernie puts into play which might be right, but it's certainly not any more electable than the path that Biden has carved out.

Bernie did better with Latinx on Tuesday, but he isn't the only candidate with favorables in the SW - Biden is polling ahead of Bernie in AZ and obviously would beat trump in CA and probably CO. As far as the industrial mid-west, Biden just won MN and is ahead in MI, OH, WI polling.

So it's fine for her to make a case for her guy to be electable, but it does nothing to convince me that Bernie would succeed where Biden would not. I don't see any reason folks here shouldn't be able to point that out.
 

Wonderrade

The Wise Ones
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,217
I will say, a strong attempt to reach out to latino voters by the Biden campaign seems like it would be a smart idea
 
Status
Not open for further replies.