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Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
I don't think giving the Taliban everyting it wants will make the country a better place, no.
You can't pretend that you have some other magic solution to end this war in a better way. The US has been trying for 18 years and achieved nothing but death and misery. The US doesn't even have a idea what a win will look like, let alone how to achieve it, and our military and political leaders knew it for well over decade but lied to the American public about it.

America's options are to leave, or stay in a forever war.

I think it's okay to argue for the latter, but you can't pretend that this not what you're arguing for, because I think it's pretty clear there is no way the US win this war.

Personally, I think this war was a huge, costly mistake from the start, it serves no purpose, and the sooner the US get the fuck out there the better.
 

SpitztheGreat

Member
May 16, 2019
2,877
So how did the thread respond yesterday to Biden's win? I was at a party and couldn't check the thread in real time. His win was wider than I think most of us expected.
 

Vixdean

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,855
I feel like the narrative of Bernie getting a big win in CA will be more daunting than the actual delegate lead (similar to the first three states). If Joe can get his campaign operation chugging post-ST it's going to be a knife fight for the plurality all the way to the convention. I do think Bernie is the only one who could get a majority at this point.
 

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,215
So, I think if Biden can keep Bernie's lead after ST down to like 100 maaaaaybe 150 he might have a shot. Not a good shot, but a shot. So, he has to be viable in California, without question. If Warren and maybe Pete or Bloomberg are also viable that would help bigly.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,507
Will states with a high population of African American voters that go for Biden over Bernie not matter on Tuesday?

🤔
 
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SolarPowered

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,211
I'm still not clear how giving over Afghanistan to the taliban and releasing thousands of people who were no doubt labeled "terrorists" is being considered a "victory" by republicans. I must be living in opposite world.

i hate to bring up the "if Obama did it" point, but yeah...
They're flailing now that the stock market is suffering and the coronavirus is silently infecting hundreds if not thousands of Americans. Like, internally they know how huge of a bomb this could be for them and they'll try to manufacture wins however and wherever they can.
Also, spoiler, her secret is no longer a secret.
Abrams? I hadn't noticed it until someone blew the photo up.
So, I think if Biden can keep Bernie's lead after ST down to like 100 maaaaaybe 150 he might have a shot. Not a good shot, but a shot. So, he has to be viable in California, without question. If Warren and maybe Pete or Bloomberg are also viable that would help bigly.
Now that's just getting into implausible territory. Pete's not good with diverse audiences and Warren basically performed ritual sacrifice with Bloomberg's beating heart on national television. Poor Pete's getting chased out of fight for 15 rallies and the polls have been terrible for him in CA. Him hitting 15% in CA may be even more of a surprise than Klob's surprise showing in New Hampshire.
 

madstarr12

Member
Jan 25, 2018
2,568
I wonder if the issues surrounding the "no party preferences" needing to request a democratic ballot will affect Bernie's margins in CA. He's doing much better with polling in CA with non-democratic party-registered voters, but how many of them show up and actually turn in a democratic ballot could end up shaping the margins between him and who's in 2nd/3rd.

Also, the new CBS News CA poll shows that 9% of voters will take the SC primary results as a "major factor" in deciding who to vote for. 10% say it will be a "minor factor". Perhaps Biden can potentially reach the delegate threshold in CA with these people if they're undecided or simply "leaning" to someone else and they end up breaking his way. Of those 9%, 16% of those are Hispanics that will use the SC results as a "major factor" in deciding who to vote for, 11% of Hispanics will use SC as a "minor factor" in making their decision. 20% of African Americans will use SC as a "minor" factor in their decision.

But it could also affect other candidates who performed poorly in SC, like Pete, Amy and Liz.

I hope there's a lot of polling being done today, to give us an idea if the SC race affected much in CA, or anywhere else. Tho it may not be enough time for the news of SC to have an effect if it's there.
 

The Namekian

Member
Nov 5, 2017
4,877
New York City
What's the point of insisting on talking about ending this pointless war in those terms if not to push for its continuation?
I don't get this.

I see your point but I am just trying to wrap my head around what a total waste of life this all was. How many people was maimed, killed, or lost love ones and here we are having accomplished nothing. Even the exit negotiations accomplished nothing. Even the exit itself is barely being noticed. This war has been going on half my life or my entire adult life and the whole thing was ludicrous.
 

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,215
I gotta admit Larry Davd's Bernie Sanders on SNL saying "You know who was a good handwasher? Joseph Stalin" made me laugh way fucking harder than it should have.
 

madstarr12

Member
Jan 25, 2018
2,568
So Bernie is not gonna be in the presidential forum at Wallace College in Selma today?

Warren, The Klobb, and others are gonna be there, but I dunno if it's a good idea to skip out on this event, especially if you wanna reduce loss margins in the south....

....tho it might not matter too much in the end.
 

Iolo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,902
Britain


She is 39, a high school English teacher with a PhD and part of a voting demographic whose rebellion could upend the political map of the country: not just suburban women, not just white suburban women, but white suburban women in the South, whose loyalty Trump will need to remain in power.
It is the kind of loyalty that has always been expected of white Southern women, who have long played a role as allies of the status quo. This was true during the days of slavery, then the days of segregation, and held true when the women's rights movement arrived and white Southern women joined the conservative movement instead, rallying to the slogan, "Stop Taking Our Privileges." In all the decades that followed, it has been the votes of white Southern women that have defined and shored up the modern Republican Party.
Black women and Latino women consistently deliver huge margins to Democrats. And in the 2016 election, 52 percent of white women outside of the South voted for Hillary Clinton, according to a study by the University of Arkansas' Blair Center of Southern Politics and Society.
It is white women in the Deep South who have remained the loyalists, the research showed, giving Trump 64 percent of their vote in 2016, a figure that did not include Miranda Murphey, who had first started reevaluating her politics after the election of Barack Obama, even though she had voted Republican.
"It was all the comments I kept hearing, like, 'Change the channel, I don't want to see that black face,' " she said. "It was always that he was black, not that he was liberal, not that there was a problem with some policy. I always thought being a Republican meant supporting the military and lower taxes, not being racist and ignorant."
Then came Trump, who Miranda found so morally repugnant that for the first time in her voting life she wrote in the name of the Libertarian Party candidate and went to bed expecting that good and decent conservatives would do the same. She woke up realizing she was wrong. Church members had voted for Trump. Her parents had gone for Trump. Phillip: Trump.
And then came Liz, a new English teacher in her district who was outspoken and had a sticker on her cellphone with an image of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg and the word "Dissent." She was not like anyone Miranda had met before, a Republican who'd become a Democrat and who described her Trump-era self as a "full-on rage machine."
----------------------------------------​
Miranda was not sure how to describe herself anymore, other than at odds with a world she thought she knew, in an America that felt more fragile than ever, and now, a mile into the woods with Liz, that is what she began talking about.
"You don't find too many marriages around here where the husband is one way politically and the wife is another," Miranda said.
"Living outside expectations is like running a marathon — it's like being exhausted all the time because you have to work so hard," Liz said.
They trudged through damp leaves, and Miranda brought up a recent dinner with a relative who'd said that Trump should just "drop a bomb on the entire Middle East" and how hard it was for her to remain polite.
"It's those kinds of conversations. I'm looking around thinking, 'Am I the only one who thinks this is not okay?' " Miranda said.
"You just want to scream!" Liz said. She brought up a confrontation she'd had at school, over a white speaker who she felt was unfairly criticizing black activists. "I was like, 'Oh hell no.' But it's painful not to fit in. There's one woman I know at school, it's clear she questions things, but she is still in captivity."
Miranda listened. She was by now used to how Liz talked. Women in bondage, the white male establishment. Liz, the daughter of a minister, now described the evangelical church as a "fear-based cult permanently intertwined with a patriarchal power system."
Miranda was surprised by how often she found herself seeing what Liz meant. She had come around to Liz's view that being pro-choice did not mean being pro-abortion, for instance. She had stopped attending church partly because her Sunday school had turned into one long baby shower and she did not have children, and partly because of the day a teacher had gone on a rant about the growing Muslim population.
"The message to me was, 'They're here to out-populate us,' " Miranda said now. "I took it as: 'Wow, I guess I'm not doing my job having white children to add to the fight.' "
"It's like this way of life is threatened," said Liz. "This white way of life."




----------------------------------------​
----------------------------------------​




She was grading papers; he was working outside, and it was the kind of quiet and predictable day that gave Phillip the feeling of contentment he prized.
"It's just — easy," was how he described his relationship with Miranda.
They'd been through so much together — her graduate school, his new business, the deaths of his parents, serious illnesses, a thousand good times — and of all the things he was sure of in his life, he was surest of Miranda.
"I know I didn't marry a traditional woman," he said. "She's not Southern Living. She's very career-oriented. She's not lazy. She's a worker. She's a go-getter. I tell her all the time, 'Miranda, you are determined.' "
He accepted her, and he knew she accepted him, as he had always been accepted as the favorite son of parents he admired and never wished to disappoint. He had been a Boy Scout. He had never had a curfew because he never got in trouble. He had never lived anywhere but Columbia County, Ga., except for college and a brief stint after, which left him so out of sorts that he moved back into his boyhood room and saved money until he and Miranda married. He had never touched alcohol because he didn't want to like it. He had become a man who said of Miranda, "She's the only girl I ever kissed."
"I didn't know I had any feelings until I met Miranda," Phillip said.

----------------------------------------

Things Miranda had never told Phillip:
That she thought Trump was racist, and when he questioned the legitimacy of the first black president, she thought about her black students and how wrong it was to rob them of pride.
That she thought Trump was cruel, and when he mocked a reporter with disabilities, she felt the same surge of blind rage she had once felt when a boy called her sister a "retard."
She thought Trump was immoral, and when she heard Christians defending him, she wanted to say, "How? How do we worship the same God? There are so many things that we as human beings should not condone, should not excuse."
She had told Phillip about being sexually assaulted by a man when she was 8 years old, but she had not told him that when she heard Trump boasting about how he could kiss women "without even asking" and "grab them by the p---y," he had reminded her of the man who had grabbed her when she was walking to school, and the feeling of hands forcing themselves on her, and the feeling of struggling to break free, and the feeling of running for her life, and of "exactly that fear, that helplessness," and that when Trump got elected, she felt none of that mattering.
She had not told Phillip that when she saw Trump smiling on a screen in her living room, she felt physically ill. That she found him "revolting" and "vulgar." That Trump was the opposite of everything she had always believed her husband to be: decent, honorable, Christian, the sort of man who would find Trump offensive.
She had not told Phillip what she wanted from him: "I want to hear him say, 'The way he talks about women is not okay. The way he talks, period, is not okay.' "


More in the link.


Not to discount her experience, but in an article questioning whether southern white women will remain loyal to Trump, I question why they devoted so much space to a woman who didn't vote for Trump in the first place.
 

Casa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,552
Sanders is going to monster CA, isn't he? 😳

I may be alone here, but I actually want to see Biden continue to do well and stay competitive. If Bernie falters for any reason it would be nice to have an alternative I'd still feel good about.

Still believe Biden has the best shot at winning + giving us the Senate.
 

Iolo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,902
Britain
So Bernie is not gonna be in the presidential forum at Wallace College in Selma today?

Warren, The Klobb, and others are gonna be there, but I dunno if it's a good idea to skip out on this event, especially if you wanna reduce loss margins in the south....

....tho it might not matter too much in the end.

Well, Bernie spent the last 3 years in SC and ended up with almost no improvement in vote share amongst AA voters, so perhaps he gave up.
 

Arm Van Dam

self-requested ban
Banned
Mar 30, 2019
5,951
Illinois
There was also a new ECU/Lucid (B/C pollster) poll for NC today as well


#NorthCarolina, East Carolina University Poll:
Biden 29%
Sanders 25%
Bloomberg 14%
Warren 11%
Klobuchar 5%
Buttigieg 4%
Steyer 3%
Gabbard 1%
(Poll Conducted 27-28)

North Carolina Governor GE:
Roy Cooper (D-inc) 49% (+8)
Dan Forest (R) 41%
.
Roy Cooper (D-inc) 49% (+16)
Holly Grange (R) 33%

East Carolina University 2/27-28https://surveyresearch-ecu.reportablenews.com/pr/biden-and-sanders-in-close-race-in-north-carolina-presidential-primary-potential-general-election-matchups-competitive … #NCgov
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,136
So Bernie is not gonna be in the presidential forum at Wallace College in Selma today?

Warren, The Klobb, and others are gonna be there, but I dunno if it's a good idea to skip out on this event, especially if you wanna reduce loss margins in the south....

....tho it might not matter too much in the end.
These forums do nothing to affect the actual outcomes. These primaries are all just demographics and Biden's VP advantage means he's going to do margins in the South despite how many events other people show up to.

These things are only good for getting like endorsements and intra party support.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,628
Bernie is where he is should be.. in San Jose CA rallying it up and trying to squeeze out as many delegates from CA as possible.
 

metalslimer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
So what happens comes down to a 2 person race with Biden and bernie being within 5 % of each other with delegate majority..... At this point I just want Bernie or Biden to win convincingly to not turn the convention into a shitshow

Biden not having any form of a good operation in California is insane. When he looks back at this race if he loses he will see that this was a reasonably clear path to winning that he just completely fucked up.
 

bluexy

Comics Enabler & Freelance Games Journalist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
14,521
So Bernie is not gonna be in the presidential forum at Wallace College in Selma today?

Warren, The Klobb, and others are gonna be there, but I dunno if it's a good idea to skip out on this event, especially if you wanna reduce loss margins in the south....

....tho it might not matter too much in the end.
Sanders is spending all day in California. Considering it could define the entire primary, it probably beats spending an evening disingenuously being asked why Biden's so much better than him with black voters.
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,969
South Carolina
kind or curious who started the no 1 trending #DropOutBernie and if they are Russian

The Machine is putting out garbled static now, but chaos is the goal, so...



This was the similar deal I heard being voiced during the turmoil and pain of the Kavanaugh hearings as well. Old wounds, callous understanding from the men in their lives, and general fed up rage at what had happened to their lives, "their" party, and their belief systems (read: +~16% to the Dems)

The Southern angle is another one: loudmouth ringleaders and rabblerousers pushing a ride or die mentality towards that racist criminal in face-to-face while Faux Noise, Onanism Channel, FB, and AM radio pump out radicalization. You white? You country? You Christian? You Southern? You GOP...or else say goodbye to things once word got out. Entire swaths of culture and livelihood held hostage and forced to bend the knee to evil.

There's this good article by this KY farmer (lifelong Dem) about him and his also Dem buddy and how said buddy's bumperstickers, yard signs, and full-throated membership in the county Dem chapter has slowly gotten him ostracized by others to the point he may have been denied a loan over it. All this despite every farmer in this guy's social circle getting worried as hell about the weather (having to delay planting due to later flood stage, longer hotter summers, etc) yet the instant "climate change" comes up its derision for liberals.

And this ain't just the South I fear, if the polls in IA, WI, and MN are anything to go by.



"Yeah, well hiring a thug to rough people up only takes an oath of loyalty, NYEH!"
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,136
Nobody's going to get southern black voters from Biden this primary. That ship has sailed. Maybe Booker or Kamala could've pulled it off with a win in the first 3 states but that ship has completely sailed.

My mom met with her church group and a lot of these older black women are just going to vote for Obama's VP and no one else this primary.

It's better for Bernie to be in CA.
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
32,786
Nobody's going to get southern black voters from Biden this primary. That ship has sailed. Maybe Booker or Kamala could've pulled it off with a win in the first 3 states but that ship has completely sailed.

My mom met with her church group and a lot of these older black women are just going to vote for Obama's VP and no one else this primary.

It's better for Bernie to be in CA.
I worry about what him potentially being non-viable in all of those states will do to the delegate counts. I'd rather Bernie over Biden, but I'm worried that if he can't get all of California's delegates then it could be bad.
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
I see your point but I am just trying to wrap my head around what a total waste of life this all was. How many people was maimed, killed, or lost love ones and here we are having accomplished nothing. Even the exit negotiations accomplished nothing. Even the exit itself is barely being noticed. This war has been going on half my life or my entire adult life and the whole thing was ludicrous.
I totally agree with all of this, and that's why I think it's important that we get the fuck out of there. And I'm not saying praise Trump or anything, I mostly hope that we don't jump to a pro war stance because we're (rightfully) used to be on the opposite side of most issues with this administration.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,136
I worry about what him potentially being non-viable in all of those states will do to the delegate counts. I'd rather Bernie over Biden, but I'm worried that if he can't get all of California's delegates then it could be bad.
Thing is, going to these events won't change that. Pete did every single SC event and outspent everyone in the state for 2% of black voters. Folks were just gonna vote for Biden.
 
Feb 14, 2018
3,083

This is the year NC goes the way of VA.

Optimistic take: statewide demographic and political forces are causing that change independently of the national Democratic Party; therefore most remaining Democratic candidates (especially Bernie and Biden) would win the state in the GE and Cunningham will win the senate race regardless of the nominee.
 

Soul Skater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,201
If Biden and Bloomberg both manage to fall below viability party leadership gonna make sure the state goes back to being near dead last every primary for forever
 

Vector

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,657
NC looking very promising for Democrats in 2020. If Tillis, Gardner, McSalty and Sue all lose, oh boy...
 

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
23,831
mbKIOdu.jpg




nymag.com

Inside Bloomberg’s $6-Million-a-Day Spoiler Campaign

The ego and the altruism of the would-be savior of the Democratic Party.
Until the debate, the question on everyone's minds had been "Can the presidency be bought by the ninth-richest man in the world?," to which the answer seemed to be "Yes, possibly." He had even briefly managed to turn the caricature into a sort of strength, at least for niche audiences, churning out a raft of weird social-media memes that it took the internet's cool kids a few days to figure out but that amounted, ultimately, to Mike leaning into a reputation as an out-of-touch moneybags. But that was a kind of managed image, and the debate was disastrously unmanaged — as was the South Carolina reprise, though measurably less embarrassing. Afterward, the question became "Can the presidency be won by someone with negative charisma?" The answer to that was much less certain. After all, Trump performed a similar end run around the Establishment in the last presidential election, but he also knew how to command the camera, and who could stop rubbernecking whether one regarded him as a demigod or car crash?
So why did Bloomberg run? Love or hate him, he is an exceedingly rational creature, and, over the summer, his team identified a teeny-tiny crack in the door that opens to more power than anywhere in the world — about a 5 percent chance of gaining the presidency, I'd heard — and thought they'd try to wiggle through. Bloomberg had been under the impression that Biden had the moderate lane covered when he declared that he was skipping a run in March 2019. But Bloomberg spent the summer in the dumps (golfing, grandkids, no longer jogging but doing a lot of speed walking), increasingly anxious about another four years under the thumb of a man who had been the laughingstock among his elite friends for decades upon decades. Try to put yourself in the shoes of a $60 billion ego: If one had Bloomberg's fortune, and Bloomberg's resolve, and did not at least try to destroy the Cheeto with his own bare hands, what would that mean to history? Trump worked against the cause of progress, Trump was bad for the planet, Trump was a threat to rationalism, Trump revealed his indecency in Charlottesville, and who knew what terrifying animal spirits he'd stir up next? "Mike once said to me, 'The only way the Republicans abandon Donald is if he fucks a child or wakes up in bed next to a dead person,' " says an acquaintance, putting his spin on Louisiana governor Edwin Edwards's famous old line. The campaign responds, "Mike does not remember saying this."
Throughout 2019, Bloomberg, like many older politicians also feeling their mortality, John Kerry among them, watched as Warren became the presumptive nominee, then faded, and looked again at Biden and thought, How is this guy this bad, and this broke, and still winning? For years and years, Bloomberg had an apparatus continually monitoring his chances — maintaining, just as a kind of casual, on-the-side, not-so-serious exploratory team, as big a campaign as most candidates would have as they approached the Iowa caucuses. He also gathered intelligence anecdotally, canvassing his clique. "We had a couple pretty long conversations, with me quizzing him and him trying to get an evaluation for what the odds were," says Brokaw. "The more he looked at it, the more he thought, I do have a shot. And the more he felt a civic obligation." "My dad often tells me regret is not an emotion that he has," says Emma, Bloomberg's elder daughter. "I'm not sure how that's possible!" But the interregnum between saying he wouldn't run in March and then declaring he would indeed run in November was "the first time in my life that I would have pushed back," she adds. "I would've said, 'I think you regret making the decision not to run.' "

----------------------
----------------------
To anyone on the outside, it looked like Bloomberg was trying to buy the nomination, and indeed, he was. People at Bloomberg Philanthropies who'd distributed many of his millions to American cities were the same folks facilitating asks to the same mayors and other legislators about endorsing Bloomberg. And even only half-informed voters could see that it was probably impossible for Bloomberg to win the nomination outright and intuited, therefore, that the mayor's plan was to drive Democrats to generational infighting at a contested convention in Milwaukee in July, which struck fear in their hearts: If they didn't unite behind someone until July, the party stood a good chance of losing again to Trump.
Bloomberg must've known Democrats would figure this out eventually, and when they did, they'd be pissed — so, partially as a defensive maneuver, he made it clear he was only in this game to defeat Trump, and even if he didn't secure the nomination, he'd keep up his payroll and also rain millions upon millions on whoever trounced him, which is a crazy move for one of the world's most competitive people, but he promised.


----------------------​
----------------------​
If he's not the nominee, Bloomberg has promised to keep field operations up in six battleground states, keep his digital operation up and running, and fund paid media with a focus on anti-Trump ads. But those promises might mean spending millions of dollars to elect a socialist whose campaign, when asked about the possibility of Bloomberg support last week, answered, "Hard no." This makes Sanders seem a bit rigid — but Sanders's supporters think Bloomberg himself is an ideologue motivated by his disdain of progressives. "He's on a mission to stop Bernie or Warren," says Waleed Shahid of Justice Democrats. "I would hope he would keep using his wealth to support democratic causes," but "I'm a little concerned that he and Tom Steyer may have hurt feelings."
Trippi feels confident Bloomberg will deliver. "I take his campaign at their word that they're going to keep all these headquarters open and keep fighting," he says. That did seem to be the conventional wisdom, both inside Bloomberg HQ and out; Bloomberg is not known to be petty, but someone who closely guards his legacy. But on February 27, in Houston, he said he'd shutter operations if the nominee rejected his support, as Sanders already had. "What do you mean, I'm going to send a check to somebody and they're not going to cash the check?" said Bloomberg. "I think I wouldn't bother to send the check."





Lot more in the link.
 

Slim Action

Member
Jul 4, 2018
5,575
OP
OP
TheHunter

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774


She is 39, a high school English teacher with a PhD and part of a voting demographic whose rebellion could upend the political map of the country: not just suburban women, not just white suburban women, but white suburban women in the South, whose loyalty Trump will need to remain in power.
It is the kind of loyalty that has always been expected of white Southern women, who have long played a role as allies of the status quo. This was true during the days of slavery, then the days of segregation, and held true when the women's rights movement arrived and white Southern women joined the conservative movement instead, rallying to the slogan, "Stop Taking Our Privileges." In all the decades that followed, it has been the votes of white Southern women that have defined and shored up the modern Republican Party.
Black women and Latino women consistently deliver huge margins to Democrats. And in the 2016 election, 52 percent of white women outside of the South voted for Hillary Clinton, according to a study by the University of Arkansas' Blair Center of Southern Politics and Society.
It is white women in the Deep South who have remained the loyalists, the research showed, giving Trump 64 percent of their vote in 2016, a figure that did not include Miranda Murphey, who had first started reevaluating her politics after the election of Barack Obama, even though she had voted Republican.
"It was all the comments I kept hearing, like, 'Change the channel, I don't want to see that black face,' " she said. "It was always that he was black, not that he was liberal, not that there was a problem with some policy. I always thought being a Republican meant supporting the military and lower taxes, not being racist and ignorant."
Then came Trump, who Miranda found so morally repugnant that for the first time in her voting life she wrote in the name of the Libertarian Party candidate and went to bed expecting that good and decent conservatives would do the same. She woke up realizing she was wrong. Church members had voted for Trump. Her parents had gone for Trump. Phillip: Trump.
And then came Liz, a new English teacher in her district who was outspoken and had a sticker on her cellphone with an image of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg and the word "Dissent." She was not like anyone Miranda had met before, a Republican who'd become a Democrat and who described her Trump-era self as a "full-on rage machine."
----------------------------------------​
Miranda was not sure how to describe herself anymore, other than at odds with a world she thought she knew, in an America that felt more fragile than ever, and now, a mile into the woods with Liz, that is what she began talking about.
"You don't find too many marriages around here where the husband is one way politically and the wife is another," Miranda said.
"Living outside expectations is like running a marathon — it's like being exhausted all the time because you have to work so hard," Liz said.
They trudged through damp leaves, and Miranda brought up a recent dinner with a relative who'd said that Trump should just "drop a bomb on the entire Middle East" and how hard it was for her to remain polite.
"It's those kinds of conversations. I'm looking around thinking, 'Am I the only one who thinks this is not okay?' " Miranda said.
"You just want to scream!" Liz said. She brought up a confrontation she'd had at school, over a white speaker who she felt was unfairly criticizing black activists. "I was like, 'Oh hell no.' But it's painful not to fit in. There's one woman I know at school, it's clear she questions things, but she is still in captivity."
Miranda listened. She was by now used to how Liz talked. Women in bondage, the white male establishment. Liz, the daughter of a minister, now described the evangelical church as a "fear-based cult permanently intertwined with a patriarchal power system."
Miranda was surprised by how often she found herself seeing what Liz meant. She had come around to Liz's view that being pro-choice did not mean being pro-abortion, for instance. She had stopped attending church partly because her Sunday school had turned into one long baby shower and she did not have children, and partly because of the day a teacher had gone on a rant about the growing Muslim population.
"The message to me was, 'They're here to out-populate us,' " Miranda said now. "I took it as: 'Wow, I guess I'm not doing my job having white children to add to the fight.' "
"It's like this way of life is threatened," said Liz. "This white way of life."




----------------------------------------​
----------------------------------------​




She was grading papers; he was working outside, and it was the kind of quiet and predictable day that gave Phillip the feeling of contentment he prized.
"It's just — easy," was how he described his relationship with Miranda.
They'd been through so much together — her graduate school, his new business, the deaths of his parents, serious illnesses, a thousand good times — and of all the things he was sure of in his life, he was surest of Miranda.
"I know I didn't marry a traditional woman," he said. "She's not Southern Living. She's very career-oriented. She's not lazy. She's a worker. She's a go-getter. I tell her all the time, 'Miranda, you are determined.' "
He accepted her, and he knew she accepted him, as he had always been accepted as the favorite son of parents he admired and never wished to disappoint. He had been a Boy Scout. He had never had a curfew because he never got in trouble. He had never lived anywhere but Columbia County, Ga., except for college and a brief stint after, which left him so out of sorts that he moved back into his boyhood room and saved money until he and Miranda married. He had never touched alcohol because he didn't want to like it. He had become a man who said of Miranda, "She's the only girl I ever kissed."
"I didn't know I had any feelings until I met Miranda," Phillip said.

----------------------------------------

Things Miranda had never told Phillip:
That she thought Trump was racist, and when he questioned the legitimacy of the first black president, she thought about her black students and how wrong it was to rob them of pride.
That she thought Trump was cruel, and when he mocked a reporter with disabilities, she felt the same surge of blind rage she had once felt when a boy called her sister a "retard."
She thought Trump was immoral, and when she heard Christians defending him, she wanted to say, "How? How do we worship the same God? There are so many things that we as human beings should not condone, should not excuse."
She had told Phillip about being sexually assaulted by a man when she was 8 years old, but she had not told him that when she heard Trump boasting about how he could kiss women "without even asking" and "grab them by the p---y," he had reminded her of the man who had grabbed her when she was walking to school, and the feeling of hands forcing themselves on her, and the feeling of struggling to break free, and the feeling of running for her life, and of "exactly that fear, that helplessness," and that when Trump got elected, she felt none of that mattering.
She had not told Phillip that when she saw Trump smiling on a screen in her living room, she felt physically ill. That she found him "revolting" and "vulgar." That Trump was the opposite of everything she had always believed her husband to be: decent, honorable, Christian, the sort of man who would find Trump offensive.
She had not told Phillip what she wanted from him: "I want to hear him say, 'The way he talks about women is not okay. The way he talks, period, is not okay.' "


More in the link.


A lot of whites out there like this.

This is basically me, but replace "votes GOP" with "only cared about climate change".

Post Trump was a culture shock, hangover and bad food poisoning all in one combo.
 

pollo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,442
Wife and I were warren voters switching to Biden. Election is too important and I think unfortunately Biden's the one to get it done.
 

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,729
Indeed, see for yourselves:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/nc/north_carolina_trump_vs_clinton-5538.html

Surely this time a ginned-up scandal won't be blasted out by NYT and co. in the last week. Surely not.
But that's a separate issue from "Were the polls right," which you seemed to be raising. They were right. The ones taken before the letter showed Hillary leading or tied, sometimes within the MoE. The ones taken after the letter showed Trump leading.
 

Teggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
I just realized that "first candidate to win the first 3 democratic primaries" thing is no longer true
 
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