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US PoliEra 2020 |OT 3| "I think he's learned his lesson" says The Concerned Immoderate Darling Collins.
- Thread starter TheHunter
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Ha I gotta say I would be very surprised to see something like that from Bernie.
My main concern with him is his entourage, whereas with Mélenchon my concern starts with him directly. Bernie's actually my third choice right now (I even voted for him last time!), whereas the only way I was voting for Mélenchon in the second round in 2017 was if he was facing Le Pen...
I see a lot more similarities between Bernie and Mélenchon supporters than I do between the two individuals themselves.
For sure, Bernie isn't anywhere near as hardcore as Melenchon and I have no concerns about him personally.
I remember Melenchon's big plan on EU reform being "if the EU doesn't agree with our reform, we hold a referendum on pulling out" which... well what's different from Le Pen's EU policy at that point? Both want to hold a gun to their perceived opponent's head.
Melenchon vs Le Pen would've been one dreary election. I do admit being a tad disappointed Hamon burned out so early.
I apparently had too much confidence in the average D primary voter if random throwaway lines and basic talking points were somehow considered to be the most memorable moments.
I couldn't watch the debate live, so I am in the process of doing so now. It's a bit of a mess. Whenever candidates talk over each other, it makes the exchanges difficult to follow. Duh, but apparently it needs to be stated. Why are the moderators performing one of their primary functions so ineffectively? Beyond that, the debate was chaotic. And not the good kind of chaotic we saw in Nevada. The latter half is a bit better.
Pete is annoying. He's doing most of the interrupting.
Pete is annoying. He's doing most of the interrupting.
Even CNN was shitting on CBS for their lack of control. CBS managed to do worse than Chuck Todd and MSNBC.
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I mean, to be fair so was Sanders.
But like you said, that's politics baby! And unlike Sanders Pete comes off as disingenuous and clunky when it comes to race politics.
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Yes.
Socialism =/= Communism however. No matter how badly some lefties argue otherwise.
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Bernie Sanders supporters stalk, harass Democratic congressional candidate
SPRINGFIELD, Ill. (NEXSTAR) — A handful of democratic socialists who support Senator Bernie Sanders for president stalked Democrat Betsy Dirksen Londrigan outside of a campaign event in Champ…www.wcia.com
(I tried to find a version of the tweet without the "bro" label, but I couldn't. If someone does let me know and I'll update my post accordingly. I'm ont trying to offend anyone with the whole Bernie Bro thing.)
Oh hey, dirtbag leftists.
The thing I've been warning about.
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That is not a good comment IMO.
You will get zero of his policies with the fillibuster in place.
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A cursory Google search, and posts on Resetera, tells me this is the general impression everywhere.
Sure. He started interrupting from the get-go, though. He went into this debate with that tactic in mind. I'm not convinced this was a smart strategy looking at polls posted on this thread and the off-topic threads. In one, Pete isn't deemed capable of beating Trump or unifying the party. The second poll (and this may be me reaching) places Klobuchar's 'democrats fighting' quote as a highlight of the debate. So, if we go back and try to determine who was, perhaps, the most confrontational or the most vitriolic, we can pinpoint the source of irritation or fear (going back to another poll about nervousness) among viewers. In other words, candidates who spent the most time bickering, fighting, interrupting, or whatever, may be perceived as a threat to the Democrats' chances in the general election. 'Most likely to win the general election' is probably also the most important trait for all voters.
You broke his quintuple streak!
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Ah, I missed the first 45 minutes, didn't realize he started off that way. Looking at the previous two debates, it's not like he had reason to preemptively do that, definitely not a good look for him.
I edited my post to add a few thoughts about the tactic. He's just lucky they ended up with inconsistent moderators, who didn't seem all too interested in facilitating a debate/discussion.
This honestly seems like an unsurprising end result of how happy everyone was with the field early on--it's easy to be happy with your options when you have 30 people running, 2 or 3 of whom closely align with you, and the sort of looming specter of Biden as the safety option.
It's a lot scarier when your favorites have all dropped out, your safety option has collapsed, and the frontrunner is possibly very ideologically different from yourself. Since we've basically collapsed to it likely being nobody with the majority and Sanders with a plurality, it's a big drop from the initial highs.
I just want to go hide until November and then just vote for the D on the ballot.
Why are some of us bending over backwards to explain the nuance and context of Pete's blunder but do not extend the same courtesy to Bernie? 🤔
You can't complain about Pete Derangement Syndrome while literally constantly doing the same to Bernie. If you looked in this thread you'd think Bernie had the worst debate performance in the history of this country, and yet he walked away with the most people impressed by his performance in the post debate poll!
You can't complain about Pete Derangement Syndrome while literally constantly doing the same to Bernie. If you looked in this thread you'd think Bernie had the worst debate performance in the history of this country, and yet he walked away with the most people impressed by his performance in the post debate poll!
The thread in the OT side for debates/primaries and this thread end up looking pretty different and I find that kind of interesting without much explanation.
Pete got shit on quite a bit in the official debate thread, while Bernie was defended. Here it was a bit of the opposite, but towards the end Pete for shit on too haha.
Pete isn't going to be the nominee though and Bernie probably will be. So it's (justifiably imo) more concerning when Bernie opens the door to problematic answers on things like cherrypicking the good parts of Fidel Castro's regime, because that'll absolutely be used as a cudgel against him in the general. He needs a better way of talking about it and it's worrying to me that he doesn't seem to have that yet.
That said, if more people come out of the debate thinking he won it rather than not, that is relieving lol
It's an impediment to any agenda.
A GOP led Senate will filibuster any meaningful legislation that comes out of a Dem House. See: right now. It really doesn't matter what it is anymore.
If you ever want to see anything passed in the Senate again it has to go. McConnell's lasting legacy.
Pundits all thinking it's weird that Warren looked over at a billionaire presidential candidate and basically said to him "Why are you still here?"
Do the questions in these debates matter much when the candidates pivot the question to bring up their unrelated campaign talking points?
The moderators give way too much slack in letting them avoid topics entirely.
In a general election against Trump? The guy who is regularly talking about his dictator love stories and "maybe we'll try that here some day" with the authoritarian community of the world? Eh.
Trump would have to make a very nuanced argument that Bernie is as much of a king answering to nobody as he is, but in a "bad and dangerous way".
The moderators give way too much slack in letting them avoid topics entirely.
In a general election against Trump? The guy who is regularly talking about his dictator love stories and "maybe we'll try that here some day" with the authoritarian community of the world? Eh.
Trump would have to make a very nuanced argument that Bernie is as much of a king answering to nobody as he is, but in a "bad and dangerous way".
Any hope Warren can claw back in to the running or is Super Tuesday looking to be the final nail?
Would be interesting to see the dynamic if Dems do get to 50 Senators, but then can't win the Senate, because one of them is now President. At least until the special election (six months max).
Either way, 50 Dems won't get rid of the filibuster. Needs to be ~53 or so, because of the moderates.
Either way, 50 Dems won't get rid of the filibuster. Needs to be ~53 or so, because of the moderates.
Why even filibuster it? Mitch will just continue not bringing any of it to a vote.
Iowa was the final nail, but, by then, her campaign had already been dead for a couple months. The naive hope that she'll bounce into relevance (like Clinton) is cute, and that's just about it. Also, Pete is done. As is Klobuchar. As is Steyer. They know it, too.
So Biden vs Bernie it is. Super Tuesday will be telling
Bloomberg is still competitive in some states as well. But some polling may have come out before his massive flops on national TV. And, yeah, I'm not counting Biden out. I don't want to underestimate what a South Carolina win could do for his campaign.
She needs a good showing and needs others to start dropping out. She seems to be the consensus second choice for supporters of other candidates so maybe if they start dropping she'll get a bump in her numbers. She's still going to be in a hole that's hard to dig out of but there is a very narrow path for her.
Oh good, he'll be holding a press conference this afternoon. That'll surely fix everything and not end as a self own.
Dave Weigel @daveweigelSome caution about SC polling: It often under-rates the candidate with support from older black voters.
Final SC poll margin in 2008: Obama +12
Actual margin: Obama +29
Final poll margin in 2016: Clinton +28
Actual margin: Clinton +48
8:04 AM - Feb 26, 2020
Alayna Treene @alaynatreeneExclusive: Pro-Trump super PAC America First Action has been tracking favorable/unfavorable ratings in FL, GA, MI, NC, OH & PA for Biden, Sanders, Warren, Buttigieg & Bloomberg—under the theory that if Trump wins each of these 6 states he wins re-election https://www.axios.com/pro-trump-pac-democrats-ads-post-super-tuesday-6286bace-4843-4c6d-aa6d-2a57dad07e46.html …
8:09 AM - Feb 26, 2020 · Washington, DC
I don't think it's good politics to go up against a guy who cherrypicks things he likes about dictators with a nominee who also cherrypicks things he likes about dictators. Bernie's side of it may be more nuanced, but nuance dies in conversations like these, and this kind of false equivalency neither helps Bernie nor hurts Trump, it just muddies the waters, which also redounds to Trump's benefit.
All I'm saying is, Bernie needs a better way to talk about this stuff because it's absolutely going to come up over and over again in the general. And if some people are already spinning the impact of these comments as, "well let's just consider Florida lost to us anyway," then that's an admission that the way Bernie talks about this right now is a losing argument.
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