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KHarvey16

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,193
tough questions don't go away if you just choose not to answer them. they become the news cycle and then they get brought up again anyway, often in less well-intentioned ways.

I don't think it would get traction at all if he didn't respond positively. He could literally respond any other way, including ignoring it or saying he's rethought it even if that's a complete lie. Make it a comment on how bad dictators are and how Trump is trying to be one and vote for democracy or whatever. It's super easy.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
They will try to smear Bernie because of his associations with people. it happened to Corbyn. it worked to a large extent. It's a bit different because Bernie has been ploughing his own furrow in comparison to Corbyn who cosied up to just about everybody you might expect him to in his previously low proifile career. you only need to get enough people to think "better the devil you know" in certain swing states for it to cost him.

He is more proactive and likable and seems to have mostly learned lessons, unlike Corbyn, and is trying to build a bigger coalition, but as a Brit I've seen this nightmare play out before and I'm nervous. hopefully the different electoral systems/calculus will mean i'm fussing for nothing.
The whole "Corbyn is being smeared" stuff coming from the UK left over any negative story about him was a complete head-in-sand ostrich moment, and that approach can't be repeated here, or the same thing will happen. You literally had a twitter account called "Stats for Lefties" being unironically posted in the election thread that was to the 2019 election what Karl Rove and "Numbers to make Right Wingers feel good" was in 2012 w/ Romney/Obama.
 

Crushed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,709

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,215
I was treating "Red Scare" and "Priors about Socialism" as two different things, since they are.
 

bluexy

Comics Enabler & Freelance Games Journalist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
14,514
I don't think it would get traction at all if he didn't respond positively. He could literally respond any other way, including ignoring it or saying he's rethought it even if that's a complete lie. Make it a comment on how bad dictators are and how Trump is trying to be one and vote for democracy or whatever. It's super easy.
i just completely disagree. sanders staying on-message, repeating sentiment he's stood by already for decades, and not making a bigger issue out of it is absolutely the best way to dismantle a bomb. not answering or flip flopping without justification are both explosively awful scenarios, especially for a frontrunner. being consistent, even regarding topics that could be considered controversial, is bernie's best strategy. he's got more than one "strong opinion" from his younger years and so far none of them have turned into a major issue in the press.

it wouldn't work for everyone. not one believes most politicians have conviction. but for sanders it does.
 

GoldenEye 007

Roll Tide, Y'all!
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,833
Texas
STOP SAYING THIS.

This isn't just directed at you, but Castro, Chavez/Maduro- countries being taken over and looted by nominally socialist/communist authoritarian figures, causing citizens to flee their country into places like the United States? That's not a "red scare", that's a very real situation that negatively impacted many, many people and left them with a very real and completely understandable distrust of anyone using "socialism" due to their experience. The "red scare" was in the 1950s. We've got an ongoing refugee crisis coming from Venezuela right this second!
So people won't have an issue with the authoritarian dictator thing, which is something we're actually much closer towards here in the US - with an executive shitting on refugees everyday. But they'll really only care about a "democratic socialist" label where he's clarified plenty of times is about social safety nets like the Nordic Model - not seizing the means of production. And they'll also not care about Trump's own hand-picked AG actually suggesting that this government should start seizing certain companies?
 

skullmuffins

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,419
trust me from personal experience. when you change a headline like that, it becomes the news story regardless of what the article is about, lol.

why y'all be so toxic sometimes.
it becomes the news story because, what, bernie supporters on twitter pass around screenshots, also devoid of context, because they're obsessed with finding instances of "bias"? the article is criticizing bernie and the progressive movement more broadly! it did not change from a pro-bernie piece to an anti-bernie piece by an editor adjusting a headline to more accurately represent the thesis. the headline change is not the problem, lol.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
Granted I don't know much about Cuba and I know praising Castro is a no-no in Florida but am I wrong in thinking Castro (even with suppression of dissent and press) was much better than the US-backed military dictator prior to him?
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Why are you using the word nominally?
Because I wouldn't describe authoritarians like Castro/Chavez/Maduro as actually being "socialist" in any serious manner beyond lip service, they just used the label to obtain power and then created a dictatorship while giving economic control to their cronies. This is in contrast to someone like Morales, who very much walked the walk on actual left policy that wasn't just hand-outs to political supporters in disguise even though there was a weeee little problem with him wanting to be President for life.
 

KHarvey16

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,193
i just completely disagree. sanders staying on-message, repeating sentiment he's stood by already for decades, and not making a bigger issue out of it is absolutely the best way to dismantle a bomb. not answering or flip flopping without justification are both explosively awful scenarios, especially for a frontrunner. being consistent, even regarding topics that could be considered controversial, is bernie's best strategy. he's got more than one "strong opinion" from his younger years and so far none of them have turned into a major issue in the press.

it wouldn't work for everyone. not one believes most politicians have conviction. but for sanders it does.

No "best strategy" involves forfeiting Florida.
 

Bobson Dugnutt

Self Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,052
The whole "Corbyn is being smeared" stuff coming from the UK left over any negative story about him was a complete head-in-sand ostrich moment, and that approach can't be repeated here, or the same thing will happen. You literally had a twitter account called "Stats for Lefties" being unironically posted in the election thread that was to the 2019 election what Karl Rove and "Numbers to make Right Wingers feel good" was in 2012 w/ Romney/Obama.

He was smeared sometimes, but yeah I agree that palming off every issue to do with him like that didn't help. Thankfully Sanders has better approval ratings in general than Corbyn ever did and I'm hoping if he is the nominee he has the campaign and surrogates to reach beyond the converted.
 

bluexy

Comics Enabler & Freelance Games Journalist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
14,514
No "best strategy" involves forfeiting Florida.

that's a heck of a take lol.

it becomes the news story because, what, bernie supporters on twitter pass around screenshots, also devoid of context, because they're obsessed with finding instances of "bias"? the article is criticizing bernie and the progressive movement more broadly! it did not change from a pro-bernie piece to an anti-bernie piece by an editor adjusting a headline to more accurately represent the thesis. the headline change is not the problem, lol.
yes, it becomes the story. how it's shared doesn't so much matter as that it's shared. specifically among the crowd that's most likely to take greatest offense to it. outlets put out sanders-critical articles all the time and it's water under the bridge. the new york times editng a headline to be distintly more anti-sanders post-publication is bigger news. that's just the way it is.
 

SSF1991

Member
Jun 19, 2018
3,263
Honestly, if the Russia crap and the Castro comments don't stop Bernie's momentum, then nothing will.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
So people won't have an issue with the authoritarian dictator thing, which is something we're actually much closer towards here in the US - with an executive shitting on refugees everyday. But they'll really only care about a "democratic socialist" label where he's clarified plenty of times is about social safety nets like the Nordic Model - not seizing the means of production. And they'll also not care about Trump's own hand-picked AG actually suggesting that this government should start seizing certain companies?
If you want to make a distinction between Nordic Social Democracy and crony authoritarianism, it helps to distance yourself from the assholes who used left ideology to turn their countries into authoritarian hellscapes so that you can help push back against "both side-ing".


...this is going to go over well.

Yeah, a hyper-energized minority (#s-wise) faction (aka the Sanders core base) will do better in lower turnout elections. Look at how AOC won her seat.
 

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,215

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,616
How is "No One" an option?
That shows who will win the majority of delegates and thus the nomination. You need 1991 to have a majority which is 50% + 1 delegate.

To see who will win the plurality, you can select the option in there and it will show who will have the plurality (most delegates).
 

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
Granted I don't know much about Cuba and I know praising Castro is a no-no in Florida but am I wrong in thinking Castro (even with suppression of dissent and press) was much better than the US-backed military dictator prior to him?

You're not wrong, even with Castro's own authoritarian faults. Reminds me of the Philip Agee quote about Ecuadoreans and Uruguayans he'd recruited for the CIA: "I sent them there to spy, and they came back praising the Cuban revolution."
 

Y2Kev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,838
I really don't want him to say anything positive about socialists anywhere just because low information voters and the media are easily distracted. I don't care if it's a nuanced take. Obama didn't say, "well actually reverend wright had a good point," even if we agree in principle that Bernie is correct (and I think we all do).
 

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,215
51,570 by my count (32,470 if we forgive your crush).
AcclaimedMelodicIndianskimmer-size_restricted.gif
 

KHarvey16

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,193
aight, i'm always for talking out any subject, but this is several replies now where you've been very condescending. cheers.

It really didn't seem like you were contextualizing the criticism, that's all. Florida's an important state and the comments are really only downside. There's no benefit in Florida or anywhere else, or at least no relative benefit, versus the downside of losing an important electorate in the state by making (or supporting) positive comments about Castro.

I'll also note that post was in response to what was a purely dismissive comment.
 

Madison

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,388
Lima, Peru
Granted I don't know much about Cuba and I know praising Castro is a no-no in Florida but am I wrong in thinking Castro (even with suppression of dissent and press) was much better than the US-backed military dictator prior to him?
No doubt in hell lol. You can a conversation about the things Cuba has and hasnt done well after 1959, there is definitely lots to talk about about.

But before 1959? With Batista in power? No way.
 
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