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US PoliEra 2020 |OT 3| "I think he's learned his lesson" says The Concerned Immoderate Darling Collins.

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Huncho_Houdini

Huncho_Houdini

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Dec 31, 2017
7,099
The upcoming debate is going to be a real test for Bernie going into SC, where he is trailing Biden, now that Bloomberg is out of the way. M4A is again going to be a major topic and I'm expecting daggers to come out, so he'll have to perform at peak frontrunner mode (better than the last debate, which was average for him).

He definitely wants to clinch it close to Biden heading into Super Tuesday; Biden still has a chance to come back with a strong victory in SC right before ST.
 
bluexy

bluexy

Comics Enabler & Freelance Games Journalist
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14,518
Huncho_Houdini said:
The upcoming debate is going to be a real test for Bernie going into SC, where he is trailing Biden, now that Bloomberg is out of the way. M4A is again going to be a major topic and I'm expecting daggers to come out, so he'll have to perform at peak frontrunner mode (better than the last debate, which was average for him).

He definitely wants to clinch it close to Biden heading into Super Tuesday; Biden still has a chance to come back with a strong victory in SC right before ST.
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it's definitely going to be interesting. if sanders goes up there and it's a firing squad, it could definitely help swing some momentum. on the other hand, if warren's still going to target bloomberg, if buttigieg and klobuchar still carry on their rivalry, and if steyer keeps his soft sanders support and general call for unity, sanders is going to come off as strong as ever.

it's also going to help sanders that the debate on CBS will likely be much less contentious. the last debate was designed for drama. cbs will likely remain much more neutral and issue-focused. sanders tends to perform much better in issue-focused debates where he can stump and do his "grandpa's got a good point" voice.
 
fontguy

fontguy

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Oct 8, 2018
16,154
bluexy said:
it's definitely going to be interesting. if sanders goes up there and it's a firing squad, it could definitely help swing some momentum. on the other hand, if warren's still going to target bloomberg, if buttigieg and klobuchar still carry on their rivalry, and if steyer keeps his soft sanders support and general call for unity, sanders is going to come off as strong as ever.

it's also going to help sanders that the debate on CBS will likely be much less contentious. the last debate was designed for drama. cbs will likely remain much more neutral and issue-focused. sanders tends to perform much better in issue-focused debates where he can stump and do his "grandpa's got a good point" voice.
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I think Buttigieg is smart enough to know how bad his spat with Klobuchar looked, and that if he or anyone else wants to win this thing, Bernie needs to be stopped immediately.

But my gut says that he can be goaded into another squabble if you hit the right nerve, and I think Klobuchar's got more shit to say to him.
 
fragamemnon

fragamemnon

Member
Nov 30, 2017
6,846
Pete as Biden's VP would be an extraordinary result for him.
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
I don't know if I want moderators to ask Bernie if he has any plan to pay for his climate change plan because it's so terrible I kind of want it to be buried so no one remembers it....

www.theguardian.com

Sanders to unveil $16tn climate plan, far more aggressive than rivals' proposals

Democratic presidential hopeful’s 10-year plan warns of devastating economic consequences if crisis is not addressed
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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I really wish Sanders would make a few patches/tweaks to his platform. His Green New Deal is 90% New Deal and 10% Green.
 
Dahbomb

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
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Oct 25, 2017
13,624
JesseEwiak said:
First national poll fully since the debate..and Waren is in 2nd.

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tenor.gif
 

Vector

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,657
I'd like to think that 5% supporting Klob is made up of just her constituents in MN + Bill Maher, otherwise...
 
The Namekian

The Namekian

Member
Nov 5, 2017
4,877
New York City
fontguy said:
I think Buttigieg is smart enough to know how bad his spat with Klobuchar looked, and that if he or anyone else wants to win this thing, Bernie needs to be stopped immediately.

But my gut says that he can be goaded into another squabble if you hit the right nerve, and I think Klobuchar's got more shit to say to him.
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what's really crazy about that spat in hindsight is it would have looked better for both of them if they hadn't been literally right next to each other. Further distance and cameras panning between the two wouldn't have allowed their body language look as bad between them.
 
Slim Action

Slim Action

Member
Jul 4, 2018
5,574
Feels good to see Sanders/Warren in 1st and 2nd in a poll, something everyone was dreaming about much of last year.

Very interested to see what the SC polls look like next week.
 
Huncho_Houdini

Huncho_Houdini

Member
Dec 31, 2017
7,099
JesseEwiak said:
First national poll fully since the debate..and Waren is in 2nd.

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This is good for Warren, but also she's up +3 compared to before, Bernie is up +4, Biden -1, and Bloomberg +1 (yeah...). It's great to see the 2 most progressive candidates up top though. Dream scenario.

I do think she's gonna get a bit of a bump, but I think the effects of that are yet to be seen.

bluexy said:
it's definitely going to be interesting. if sanders goes up there and it's a firing squad, it could definitely help swing some momentum. on the other hand, if warren's still going to target bloomberg, if buttigieg and klobuchar still carry on their rivalry, and if steyer keeps his soft sanders support and general call for unity, sanders is going to come off as strong as ever.

it's also going to help sanders that the debate on CBS will likely be much less contentious. the last debate was designed for drama. cbs will likely remain much more neutral and issue-focused. sanders tends to perform much better in issue-focused debates where he can stump and do his "grandpa's got a good point" voice.
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He will be attacked from everywhere, akin to Biden at the beginning of the campaign season. It's how he reacts that will help him. Admittedly Bernie overreacts sometimes and pivots back to his main classism spiel, and I think he might have to remain a bit calmer this time around.
 
fontguy

fontguy

Avenger
Oct 8, 2018
16,154
The Namekian said:
what's really crazy about that spat in hindsight is it would have looked better for both of them if they hadn't been literally right next to each other. Further distance and cameras panning between the two wouldn't have allowed their body language look as bad between them.
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It would have been great for one if the other demurred, the way Bloomberg did for Warren. But Buttigieg took exception and Klobuchar's always got a stapler at the ready, so instead of one of them looking bad, they both did.
 
Kaitos

Kaitos

Tens across the board!
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Oct 25, 2017
14,707
How have only 60% of the votes been announced.

thank god someone won so easily. If this were as close as Iowa, it'd be embarrassing.
 
ArkhamFantasy

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,550
Can the DNC ban caucuses from their primary elections? Or refuse to acknowledge the results of a caucus? I want them to get rid of the caucus.
 
Dahbomb

Dahbomb

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Oct 25, 2017
13,624
ArkhamFantasy said:
Can the DNC ban caucuses from their primary elections? Or refuse to acknowledge the results of a caucus? I want them to get rid of the caucus.
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They already asked many states to cut caucuses and they cut down the number of caucuses by half. So the DNC definitely wants them gone and for good reason.
 
ChucklesB

ChucklesB

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,490
Dahbomb said:
They already asked many states to cut caucuses and they cut down the number of caucuses by half. So the DNC definitely wants them gone and for good reason.
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Then after we get ranked choice voting and voila, it's finally not broken anymore. Oh, and more absentee voting, less early voting. Then voila, it's fixed.
 
bluexy

bluexy

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14,518
Huncho_Houdini said:
He will be attacked from everywhere, akin to Biden at the beginning of the campaign season. It's how he reacts that will help him. Admittedly Bernie overreacts sometimes and pivots back to his main classism spiel, and I think he might have to remain a bit calmer this time around.
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maybe. personally i'd lean towards that being likely. but we've entered a different stage of the race now. everyone attacked biden when he was the frontrunner because everyone had a legitimate chance at the nomination. that's just not going to happen anymore. there are going to be very clear factions as candidates support their allies and attack their ally's opponents.

we just don't know the state of the game fully. it's made extra complicated by the possibility that everyone except sanders could be fighting not for first place, but for second place, hoping for a contested convention. we don't know who warren actually sees herself allied with. we don't know if buttigieg and klobuchar are genuinely competing still or are just part of the contested convention game.

it's going to be a wild debate, just you wait.
 
OP
OP
TheHunter

TheHunter

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Oct 25, 2017
25,774
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:


I don't understand the people who want to die on the "actually Bernie is not that radical" hill.

I think Bernie is more electable than Warren and Pete because of sexism and homophobia, but one policy that Bernie supports would more than double the federal budget and change the entire world economy to a massive extent. He and Warren are the most radical Dems of all time by a huge margin.
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To be fair, the end of the world as we know is the one thing to be radical on.
 
The Chosen One

The Chosen One

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Oct 26, 2017
6,818
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
I don't know if I want moderators to ask Bernie if he has any plan to pay for his climate change plan because it's so terrible I kind of want it to be buried so no one remembers it....

www.theguardian.com

Sanders to unveil $16tn climate plan, far more aggressive than rivals' proposals

Democratic presidential hopeful’s 10-year plan warns of devastating economic consequences if crisis is not addressed
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

"
Sanders says the plan will pay for itself over 15 years, including by "making the fossil fuel industry pay for their pollution, through litigation, fees, and taxes, and eliminating federal fossil fuel subsidies". He wants to cut emissions made in the US as well as some produced in developing countries."

The total net worth of the oil industry is $1.7T

Bernie's plan costs $1.6T a year

We're going to have to raise middle class taxes to deal with climate change but also no one wants to do that so we get these fantasies but...
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This is the other problem I have with Sanders. He has these very idealistic and aggressive plans but it almost seems like no real thought or analytical critique was done on them. That's just a perfect example of the oil industry being worth $1.7T a year and Bernie's plan costing $1.6T a year. It's like he's hoping no one really looks close enough into the numbers. I don't understand how Warren got torn to shreds for explaining how her M4A would be paid for, but Sanders still gets to live in Candyland with no hard critique of his obvious rhetoric full/paper thin plans. It just ends up making people even more jaded about government when we won't come close to doing 5% of what he's proposing.

Slader166 said:


10k in Virginia today, fairly certain that's his largest crowd yet.
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Originally I thought Biden had to be paired with a woman and preferably a woman of color for his VP.

But if Booty can at least register on the radar with black voters in SC and have a somewhat decent showing on Super Tuesday, a Biden / Booty ticket might actually make some sense. Booty offsets Biden's age tremendously and Biden offsets Booty's experience substantially. They might be a little weak with minority voters, but honestly minority voters aren't really excited about anyone left in the race, it's a pure pragmatic vote, not love. Booty has shown he has the ability to punch WAY above his weight. Plus I think we would all LOVE seeing a VP debate between Butti and Pence. It would probably rate higher than the Presidential debate.

The big downside to that ticket would be the Sanders crowd would absolutely hate supporting Biden / Butti and I imagine a lot of them will sit out. Especially since Bernie supporters can taste victory right now, I don't think they'll support a ticket that doesn't have a strong far left progressive in it.

What a mess.
 
SSF1991

SSF1991

Member
Jun 19, 2018
3,263
Just noticed that Bernie now has a double-digit lead in the 538 and RealClearPolitics poll averages.
 
bluexy

bluexy

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Oct 25, 2017
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she's so weird but she's at least bringing energy
 
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