Yeah but the first guy to drop out shouldn't be talking trash. It's just embarrassing cause he is still the mayor of NYC with one foot out the door.
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US PoliEra 2020 |OT 3| "I think he's learned his lesson" says The Concerned Immoderate Darling Collins.
- Thread starter TheHunter
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Yeah but the first guy to drop out shouldn't be talking trash. It's just embarrassing cause he is still the mayor of NYC with one foot out the door.
He ran for president in 2020?! Waaaaaat..........
*googles*
*falls into time hole*
AHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......
MI looks very solid. PA fairly close, but the average of polls there, as well as recent election data, points to our winning it. Trump fails to exceed 45% anywhere against anybody.Table:
I think WI is truly a coin flip.
No that was Swolewell. Or Ojeda if you want to count before the debates.
Loving it.
Bloomberg's only narrative (that he can beat Trump, or get the job done) crumbling in real time.
Just think that if his ego was just a little bit smaller, he could have stayed out of the race and spent his hundreds of millions on voter registration/turnout/shit on Trump efforts. The sad thing is he won't even miss the half billion or whatever he's spent so far.
Most likely Yang. Maybe Warren depending on how things progress, but I don't see her dropping out before ST.
I'd personally be surprised if Booker did it, considering his Health Insurance industry ties. Not sure if he'd want to throw his weight behind the M4A candidate.
Extremely bad polls for us, we need to win by three points to win the GE, probably four to have Manchin be the swing Senator.
........
It was the mayor of New York City?
How is the extremely left leaning mayor of New York City so forgotten so constantly, lol.
De Blasio isn't high profile enough on the national stage to count. Hell, no one in New York even cared that he endorsed Bernie.
There is still time for him to do that if he drops out. He's SAID he would use all his staff/resources on whoever the Dem nominee is, but lets see if he's a Never Bernie and renegs on his promise.
No one in New York really cares about Di Blasio, because it kind of seems he is just using the job to try and make himself higher profile. Bloomberg at least really seemed to care about the job itself.
The several Bernie steps on all his positions just leave me with a lot of weird feelings.
Bernie: "I am proposing a tripling of the federal budget and elimination of several industries."
Bernie: "What I'm proposing is not radical, it's done in other countries!"
So let's go through this for a bit.
First of all, radical change to become similar to the norm is still pretty radical. If I'm an NFL player who is extremely out of shape, proposing that by next offseason, I'll be in as good of shape as Myles Garret would be super radical even if that's the level of shape I should be in. If we want to become similar to the UK or Japan, we're going to have to introduce more rationing of care to the middle and upper middle class, fewer medical devices, lay off the majority of insurance industry, cut doctor's wages by 60-70%, probably nationalize rural hospitals so they don't close, go to war with drug companies, lay off the majority of hospital admins, convince Americans that long wait times are worth much cheaper care... This is extremely radical in terms of transformation. This is an eight front war.
Second of all, Bernie's job guarantee, no emissions by 2030, no copays and no rationing and full coverage of everything are things that... are not done or purposed in pretty much any country. They would require truly massive payroll tax increases and a huge VAT. The people online who are doing the "you know, Bernie isn't as radical as you think because... Well he's not" are just kind of weird. I think the general voting populace would view a 15% VAT as very radical...
It's just such a weird combination of stances.
Note that Warren's proposals are just as radical but she doesn't do the "what I'm proposing is done in other countries" thing.
Bernie: "I am proposing a tripling of the federal budget and elimination of several industries."
Bernie: "What I'm proposing is not radical, it's done in other countries!"
So let's go through this for a bit.
First of all, radical change to become similar to the norm is still pretty radical. If I'm an NFL player who is extremely out of shape, proposing that by next offseason, I'll be in as good of shape as Myles Garret would be super radical even if that's the level of shape I should be in. If we want to become similar to the UK or Japan, we're going to have to introduce more rationing of care to the middle and upper middle class, fewer medical devices, lay off the majority of insurance industry, cut doctor's wages by 60-70%, probably nationalize rural hospitals so they don't close, go to war with drug companies, lay off the majority of hospital admins, convince Americans that long wait times are worth much cheaper care... This is extremely radical in terms of transformation. This is an eight front war.
Second of all, Bernie's job guarantee, no emissions by 2030, no copays and no rationing and full coverage of everything are things that... are not done or purposed in pretty much any country. They would require truly massive payroll tax increases and a huge VAT. The people online who are doing the "you know, Bernie isn't as radical as you think because... Well he's not" are just kind of weird. I think the general voting populace would view a 15% VAT as very radical...
It's just such a weird combination of stances.
Note that Warren's proposals are just as radical but she doesn't do the "what I'm proposing is done in other countries" thing.
We can't really put any stock in these +/- a few points until we're our of the primary. However +/-6 or so would be a killer
I don't understand the people who want to die on the "actually Bernie is not that radical" hill.
I think Bernie is more electable than Warren and Pete because of sexism and homophobia, but one policy that Bernie supports would more than double the federal budget and change the entire world economy to a massive extent. He and Warren are the most radical Dems of all time by a huge margin.
None of Bernie's stuff would ever pass congress in a million years, so there's nothing to worry about in that regard. Mind you, they'd still be shoved in his face during the campaign as radical despite being impossible. Worst of both worlds.
Yeah Dems should start at the center/center right on policies then negotiate more to the right like we usually do. That always turns out well for everybody!
Sure Titanpaul but... That's kind of the point?
Health insurers, doctors, drug companies, engineers, and hospital admins are massively ripping off Americans and have to have their wages cut dramatically and most of their industries either closed or nationalized with a huge amount of layoffs as well.
That's... very radical in terms of change.
I support single payer because I think health insurers, doctors, drug companies, engineers, and hospital admins should be paid less and far fewer should be employed, but people who present that idea as non-radical are just very strange to me.
Health insurers, doctors, drug companies, engineers, and hospital admins are massively ripping off Americans and have to have their wages cut dramatically and most of their industries either closed or nationalized with a huge amount of layoffs as well.
That's... very radical in terms of change.
I support single payer because I think health insurers, doctors, drug companies, engineers, and hospital admins should be paid less and far fewer should be employed, but people who present that idea as non-radical are just very strange to me.
Also, I'm really impressed by Bernie's outreach this time around vs 2016 in NC.
We've gotten multiple folks coming to our neighborhood and community and delivering fliers written in English and Urdu.
That certainly didn't happen around here in 2016.
We've gotten multiple folks coming to our neighborhood and community and delivering fliers written in English and Urdu.
That certainly didn't happen around here in 2016.
I am disturbed these polls are as close as they are
also single payer is likely what we will get in a system close to Canada and maybe the nationalization of rural hospitals. I honestly think attempting to do anything else would "break" healthcare because there isn't even an infrastructure for it
No one actually gives a shit about the costs of things, certainly not in a campaign
Voting against someone because they're proposing something "too expensive" is always a secondary reason
Voting against someone because they're proposing something "too expensive" is always a secondary reason
They don't have to report a $5 sub
as for the bots, well idk what anyone expects to see on twitter these days
I'm pretty sure you're going to need massive payroll taxes and a big VAT to pay for these things and people would care if sales taxes went from 7% to 22%.
Of course, they won't pass but on paper, they're very radical things... Don't understand the point of trying to frame these things as non-radical when they obviously are.
Would be interesting on the healthcare side to see the numbers with the current health insurance premiums taken into account and put into a single massive pool.
I also wonder the effect on doctors who now may be concerned what a Medicare programs pays for services who would also have their massive student loans wiped out - removing a massive pain point of paying those types of bills.
The republicans never pay for their tax cuts. It's asymmetric warfare and we are losing.
just make it a stimulus program and don't think to hard about it. The problem I have with GND spending versus say, increased SS, M4A or UBI type spending is more of it will go to corporations than working people by the nature of the spending (infrastructure, solar, power etc)
I mean the state of the healthcare debate should give you some indication...
Even pete has adopted some variant of M4A and bidens "compromise" position is something we couldn't even achieve in 2009.
Bernie, more than anything else, is clearly running on a platform revitalizing the left in the country after its been destroyed for decades. And he's mostly been successful. Does he need to clearly state that he needs a 22% VAT to get that stuff done? No I don't think so. The fact that people want a green new deal, improved infrastructure, universal coverage are the goals. Legitimizing these views and positions that many other, poorer than america, countries have managed to make work in one form or another, you can get ticky tack about the type of implementation, while we the richest country ever seemingly can't is the position Bernie has always been running on.
And speaking on why people cast bernie as "More pragmatic than people give him credit" is his entire legislative history. He's been there for compromise positions when he is the critical vote and when he's not he lets it known he thinks there's something more that he thinks we as a country can aspire towards.
He's not that complicated and getting bogged down in tax proposals and policies isn't the point. He knows when to be pragmatic and he knows when to be idealistic. Running a campaign for president isn't a time to hedge your bets.
Again, the scope of Bernie and Warren's proposals is massively beyond the scope of any Republican spending proposal ever. The Green New Deal would cost around 35x the Trump tax cuts. This would be a truly unprecedented reorganization of the United States tax code, federal government, economy, and society.
Why don't we just claim Mexico will pay for the GND? I mean, that worked for any questions about hoe we'd pay for the wall.
Where am I arguing that? And do you care to actually address my concerns?
I don't think Bernie will govern much differently than other Dems and would compromise frequently. I just don't understand Bernie and other pundits trying to phrase these extremely radical proposals as non-radical. The GOP is going to come out with a billion ads of "to pay for these programs, Bernie would have to raise sales taxes to 22%" and I'm not sure the "these proposals aren't radical" defense will work against the ads.
Somehow in a primary full of "more conservative than him" voters and candidates he's more popular. And in general election polling.
Like this is the most tested attack against bernie sanders plans and somehow he's still winning. Does it not seem like he clearly has the answer to that question by now?
Like I agree, it makes me somewhat nervous, but the GOP has been crying wolf for decades about dems raising the debt and deficits. They'll say that about literally anything we do ever and run billions of ads to say so. Bernie seems to have the answer and he's managed to not shy away from his policies either.
I mean, the only alternative would be to start with something more to the center in the first place if you're concerned with something passing Congress. How else would I take that?
As for addressing your concerns, I'm not sure there is anything to address. It's an impossibility to know. You made a declarative statement of the future that is impossible to address as nobody knows the future.
"How are you going to pay for that?" has gotten like a couple million of ads targeted exclusively at liberals voting in a primary.
Not sure a billion dollars of ads targeted at moderate voters will have as small of an impact.
Okay well I'm not sure how to peak into the future and assuage your concerns. Everyone knows bernies policies are expensive. And he still leads polls. You can be nervous about it and fair but like....what is there to be done? We had everything "paid" for theoretically in 2016 and we still lost.
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