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Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,729

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,215
People need to understand, to the extent that there is any freaking out about Bernie on non-Fox cable news, it's not because they are afraid of single payer healthcare, free college education or freeing migrants from dog cages. It's because they are afraid Trump will eat Sander's lunch and none of those things will ever happen.
This is actually Carville's entire thing. He doesn't think Bernie can win, and, even if he can, he's not convinced he can bring the House/Senate with him. He actually laid that out pretty clearly today. You can disagree with him, but he's not some secret Republican who really just HATES the idea of single payer healthcare.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
the courage democrats showed by supporting civil rights would be the same courage modern democrats would show supporting universal healthcare. don't equate their bravery to the current low expectations defense and the democrats who push it that this guy is saying we owe our respect to.
Are you really comparing supporting single payer to the civil rights movement?
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
27,956
How do i know the yellow you see is the same yellow that i see?

I mean really, what else could he be talking about in terms of it being over?
It's a 20 second clip. Watch it again. I don't watch the network, I've no idea what they were talking about right before it, because it's not in the clip. He references Carville being right. I don't know what Carville said. How could I?
 
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Wilsongt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,496
Mathews was quoting a quote too. But context and implication matters. We as the Democratic party should have higher standards for coverage of candidates than this.

Oh, I agree and I dunk on Chuck Todd every chance I get because he is garbage. But even the way the story was reported was garbage by people saying "chuck todd calls Bernie supporters brownshirts," which was false.
 

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,729
This is actually Carville's entire thing. He doesn't think Bernie can win, and, even if he can, he's not convinced he can bring the House/Senate with him. He actually laid that out pretty clearly today. You can disagree with him, but he's not some secret Republican who really just HATES the idea of single payer healthcare.
He doesn't need to bring the House. We already have it and won't lose it.

I was (more) nervous about the Senate until this week when I saw the SurveyUSA polls of NC. If the presidential nominee carries, it Tillis probably loses.

+CO, AZ, ME, NC, -AL = 50/50, with maybe an upset in IA or KS to pad things a bit more.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
the courage democrats showed by supporting civil rights would be the same courage modern democrats would show supporting universal healthcare. don't equate their bravery to the current low expectations defense and the democrats who push it that this guy is saying we owe our respect to.
Equivocating these two is absolutely horrible. Democrats have paid very little long term political price for paying the ACA outside of the 2010 backlash wave that was inevitable anyway. Getting UHC in place would be no different. Passing Civil Rights made them a minority party for a half-century as there was a mass exodus of racist white voters.
 

Haubergeon

Member
Jan 22, 2019
2,269

twitter.com

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter

“Over & over again, I hear insider consultants say that investing in Latinx outreach is a “waste of time.” When I ran, people TOLD me “not to bother” with my own community. Bernie takes Latinx outreach seriously. He was often the only 1 showing up to Iowa satellite caucuses,too...


Bernie very deliberately reaches out to groups of inactive or under-served voters in a way I think genuinely scares people who view themselves as some sort of gatekeepers of conventional political wisdom.
 

Y2Kev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,838
I am moving my business to a more civil community, which could be the Anime Titty Discussion OT or perhaps the Knitting OT.
 

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,215
He doesn't need to bring the House. We already have it and won't lose it.

I was (more) nervous about the Senate until this week when I saw the SurveyUSA polls of NC. If the presidential nominee carries, it Tillis probably loses.

+CO, AZ, ME, NC, -AL = 50/50, with maybe an upset in IA or KS to pad things a bit more.
Well, Carville's whole thing is he thinks Bernie COULD lose us the House. I don't think that's accurate at all, but I can imagine maybe a few very close wins where it might be a bit harder to win with him at the top of the ticket than with a Biden or whatever. Do I think it's enough to matter? Hell no. I'm not saying I agree with him, but I can at least appreciate where he is coming from.
 

BWoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
38,264
Bernie very deliberately reaches out to groups of inactive or under-served voters in a way I think genuinely scares people who view themselves as some sort of gatekeepers of conventional political wisdom.

He is the Democratic version of Trump in that regard. That's why I think he'd take it if he ran against him later this year.
 
Dec 31, 2017
7,087
Pete's entire strategy in the last debate was to pain Sanders as the Bloomberg of the left, and try to attack Klobuchar.

He's so good at politics.
 

studyguy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,282


Again absolutely anecdotal but Sanders has a campaign branch opened last year in my town which confused the hell out of me, we're the poorest city of the county but population wise we're larger than the next two largest cities put together. Normally branches are opened in the two more affluent towns near by or Santa Baraba or Thousand Oaks in the next over counties. Most of our town however is Spanish speaking. That said, the guy's staff has literally shown up at church and neighborhoods just out of the blue constantly. Literally have never had my parents talk about a candidate till this year which is just fucking wild, they normally don't give a single flying fuck. The Spanish language outreach effort regardless of what you think of Sanders should absolutely be lauded and considered going forward.
 

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,729
I don't think that's accurate at all, but I can imagine maybe a few very close wins where it might be a bit harder to win with him at the top of the ticket than with a Biden or whatever
And I doubt he can name specific districts.

If we lose NY-22, OK-05, and SC-01, we probably would've lost th em anyway.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,877
Honestly, the most recent polls in this thread showed Bernie running against Trump on par with Biden, so about +5 nationally and then +3-5 in multiple battleground states.

I'm questioning the idea that Bernie will run much worse than Biden would in general. I think he's on his way to successfully building the coalition that he will need to win nationally.
 

bluexy

Comics Enabler & Freelance Games Journalist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
14,514
Equivocating these two is absolutely horrible. Democrats have paid very little long term political price for paying the ACA outside of the 2010 backlash wave that was inevitable anyway. Passing Civil Rights made them a minority party for a half-century.
Are you really comparing supporting single payer to the civil rights movement?
oh we're really going here then. how many people y'all know who have died from not having healthcare? from having shit healthcare? how many people have you watched wilt away while you sit, knowing you can do nothing? how many friends have you lost to suicide, people you've begged to get help but have no answer for when they say they can't afford therapy, psychiatrists, or livesaving drugs?

i can't count the number of people i've lost on two hands anymore. and i'm seeing the inevitability of more joining that list within my family and friend circle as we speak.

68,000 people die literally every year from lack of health insurance and being underinsured. sixty eight fucking thousand people a year. so don't tell me universal healthcare isn't one of the most meaningful movements of the modern era. you can take that shit with you when you get out of my face.
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,513
I'm questioning the idea that Bernie will run much worse than Biden would in general. I think he's on his way to successfully building the coalition that he will need to win nationally.
This is where I'm at. I normally ignore the guy, but he said it best:



His numbers look very good. I still fear for his GE oppo but I can't make a better electability argument for anyone else. In a race this crowded, he's sitting at 31% with whites, 51% with Hispanics, and 25% with AA - a solid second to Biden.
 

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,085
Honestly, the most recent polls in this thread showed Bernie running against Trump on par with Biden, so about +5 nationally and then +3-5 in multiple battleground states.

I'm questioning the idea that Bernie will run much worse than Biden would in general. I think he's on his way to successfully building the coalition that he will need to win nationally.
He clearly has the most diverse coalition so far. SC will be revealing as to how far he has come with black voters overall, but in general these critiques of sanders coalition lacking diversity are 4 years old and need to be put in the curio cabinet for good.
 

SSF1991

Member
Jun 19, 2018
3,263
I saw someone post this in the primary thread, but uh

QLa5aqV.png


Bernie's definitely in good shape.
 

Y2Kev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,838
Honestly, the most recent polls in this thread showed Bernie running against Trump on par with Biden, so about +5 nationally and then +3-5 in multiple battleground states.

I'm questioning the idea that Bernie will run much worse than Biden would in general. I think he's on his way to successfully building the coalition that he will need to win nationally.
I'm mostly afraid of Bernard in the rustbelt. I feel like Old Joe would be a better bet there, but I dunno. It's probably not based on data.
 

John Dunbar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,229
Equivocating these two is absolutely horrible. Democrats have paid very little long term political price for paying the ACA outside of the 2010 backlash wave that was inevitable anyway. Getting UHC in place would be no different. Passing Civil Rights made them a minority party for a half-century as there was a mass exodus of racist white voters.

haven't the democrats had the majority in both the house and the senate for most of time since the 60s, including all of the 70s? republican majorities seem to have been brief in comparison, so calling the democrats a minority party seems hyperbolic at best.
 

Crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,071
A) ALL Democrats want universal healthcare. ALL OF THEM. Single-Payer isn't the only way to do it and its not going to become law in the near term.

B) Don't compare stuff to the Civil Rights movement. 9/10 times it doesn't go over well. You can find a better analogy :P
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,127

twitter.com

MSNBC on Twitter

“"In my view, it's preposterous," fmr. Obama campaign manager Dan Plouffe says of the prospect of a contested convention. "Right now there's no evidence that would suggest that Bernie Sanders is so much less electable than the rest." https://t.co/rUFVLumD68”
 

bluexy

Comics Enabler & Freelance Games Journalist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
14,514
A) ALL Democrats want universal healthcare. ALL OF THEM. Single-Payer isn't the only way to do it and its not going to become law in the near term.

B) Don't compare stuff to the Civil Rights movement. 9/10 times it doesn't go over well. You can find a better analogy :P
dude you can't even tag me in your replies or address my words directly don't tell me what i should or shouldn't do.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,616
Pete in 8-12 years is going to be a power house when he does over time work to gain grounds with minorities and has developed the power/influence to gain the money he needs. He has shown himself to be a potential threat with enough prep time.
 

Teggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
Shut up dumbass:

www.wcvb.com

Boston mayor formally asks Sony to reconsider pulling out of PAX East

Mayor Marty Walsh sent a letter to Sony's president and CEO after the entertainment giant pulled out of the gaming showcase over coronavirus concerns.

Wait, Sony isn't showing up because they think Boston is like a plague zone?



Well huh, sounds like those people have economic anxiety. Like, legitimate economic anxiety.
 

JesseEwiak

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
3,781
68,000 people die literally every year from lack of health insurance and being underinsured. sixty eight fucking thousand people a year. so don't tell me universal healthcare isn't one of the most meaningful movements of the modern era. you can take that shit with you when you get out of my face.

UHC is important. Which is why I'll be happy when President Sanders signs Michael Bennett's public option bill, after it gets support from newly minted Senators Mark Kelly & John Hickenlooper, along with Manchin and Sinema.
 

BWoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
38,264


Again absolutely anecdotal but Sanders has a campaign branch opened last year in my town which confused the hell out of me, we're the poorest city of the county but population wise we're larger than the next two largest cities put together. Normally branches are opened in the two more affluent towns near by or Santa Baraba or Thousand Oaks in the next over counties. Most of our town however is Spanish speaking. That said, the guy's staff has literally shown up at church and neighborhoods just out of the blue constantly. Literally have never had my parents talk about a candidate till this year which is just fucking wild, they normally don't give a single flying fuck. The Spanish language outreach effort regardless of what you think of Sanders should absolutely be lauded and considered going forward.


Who the fuck are these "insider consultants" candidates are employing who don't recommend them do basic shit like this?
 

Crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,071
haven't the democrats had the majority in both the house and the senate for most of time since the 60s, including all of the 70s? republican majorities seem to have been brief in comparison, so calling the democrats a minority party seems hyperbolic at best.

They didn't have the presidency (and in fact would get blown out in President races until 1992) which you need to do stuff like Healthcare reform and Southern Democrats were basically all modern Republicans in ideology until just recently. The 2018 House Majority is the first time in decades the Dem Majority hasn't been made from a huge segment of rural/conservative districts.
 
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