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shiba5

I shed
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
15,777


GOP: "Did the President offer Zelensky a quid pro quo during his perfect phone call?"
HB: "I don't know. I wasn't on the call."
GOP: "CASE CLOSED! THERE'S NO EVIDENCE!"

Hunter Biden is completely irrelevant to Trump's abuse of power, but the GOP gonna GOP.
 

Bigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,618
I super don't like this. Accomplishing something this big with an EO seems like a mistake that would almost instantly backfire and hurt us really bad in the midterms.
I mean, how else could she do it? I'd love for a dem-majority senate but it's still pretty unlikely. And the midterms always suck for the party currently in power.

I'd rather an incoming dem president try to implement some real significant change with EOs instead of 8 years of basically nothing happening like Obama.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,883
I got to give credit to Pelosi. Not sure the articles won't still be immediately dismissed but I think her strategy lead to the best chance that they won't be.
They're going to vote to allow witnesses. I'm sure there'll be some horseshit attached, but even Schumer was signaling weeks ago that there was R support for it, and Noted Profile In Courage Mitt Romney straight up came out for it now.
 

AniHawk

No Fear, Only Math
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,123
They're going to vote to allow witnesses. I'm sure there'll be some horseshit attached, but even Schumer was signaling weeks ago that there was R support for it, and Noted Profile In Courage Mitt Romney straight up came out for it now.
gotta wonder if the iran disaster was a catalyst for some in safer areas (like the utah republicans) or in competitive/dem leaning places to break ranks in just the slightest of ways.
 

Rag

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,873
I mean, how else could she do it? I'd love for a dem-majority senate but it's still pretty unlikely. And the midterms always suck for the party currently in power.

I'd rather an incoming dem president try to implement some real significant change with EOs instead of 8 years of basically nothing happening like Obama.
I just think that regardless of who is in power, the executive branch has gotten too powerful. I suppose we need to take advantage of whatever levers of power we can pull on, but I'd still rather see it accomplished through congress.
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
That's a dumb and dishonest way to look at it.

"I support M4A, I also support a realistic way to get there" is not "I don't support M4A". Don't be an idiot.

Her plan was not at all a realistic way to get there, come on now XD


I mean, how else could she do it? I'd love for a dem-majority senate but it's still pretty unlikely. And the midterms always suck for the party currently in power.

I'd rather an incoming dem president try to implement some real significant change with EOs instead of 8 years of basically nothing happening like Obama.

Which is exactly what Biden proposes. He's for undoing Trumps EOs but has signaled that he won't use them beyond that.
 

Meauxse

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,237
New Orleans, LA
Rose Twitter's desperate attempt at #refundWarren seems to be turning itself on its head. The tag appears to be coopted by people making additional donations to Warren.
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
More realistic than holding a rally in front of Mitch McConnell's office lol

Sanders statements on it are more realistic than all of the things that Elizabeth Warren said would get done just to make her plan seem fairy dust feasible. Warrens plan is predicated on impossibilities. Sanders says 'the fight starts on day one and it's a long term goal of changing the culture in politics etc to make it happen'. Sanders is advocating a cultural, value, and framing shift in society, Warren is saying she'll make it work within the current context after some other impossible things get done within her time-frame.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,973
Golden Globes, but still. lol
MeN5gcHS-1920.jpg
Yeah that was it, thank you!

As for this training call thing and the debate being on CNN tonight, well fuck. Another chance to clearly explain what needs to be done with healthcare will be washed down the drain.
 

JVID

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,196
Chicagoland
Sanders statements on it are more realistic than all of the things that Elizabeth Warren said would get done just to make her plan seem fairy dust feasible. Warrens plan is predicated on impossibilities. Sanders says 'the fight starts on day one and it's a long term goal of changing the culture in politics etc to make it happen'.
Big lol.
 

Deleted member 2426

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,988
Neither plan is realistic without the Senate et al. If you are doing politics and you know you are selling an idea, you don't want to de-abstract it.

That was Warren's mistake and the main reason why she is not polling at 40% in Iowa (the potential was there).

Today it's Bernie's test. If he passes and defends himself better, then Biden should panic.
 

JABEE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,846
What do you think of the Bernie campaign lying about Warren again?
I don't think they should say Warren isn't for M4A even though if you have read my posts at the time, I believe her transition plan is a defecto endorsement of the public option and puts single-payer on the back burner in a cynical way. It appears the Sanders campaign concedes she says she is for M4A when pushed. There is a better way to make this point.

I don't remember a previous "lie" the Sanders campaign made about Warren. There probably is a representation you disagree with out there though.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,927
I don't see the call center thing being brought up during the debate since it wasn't CNN's "scoop". They'll bring up their own story, but who knows how that will go and for how long because Sanders clearly doesn't want to dwell on it and Warren seemingly doesn't want to either given her statement. I don't see it being a huge thing, but we'll see.
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
I don't see the call center thing being brought up during the debate since it wasn't CNN's "scoop". They'll bring up their own story, but who knows how that will go and for how long because Sanders clearly doesn't want to dwell on it and Warren seemingly doesn't want to either given her statement. I don't see it being a huge thing, but we'll see.

With that call center thing it sounds like someone going rogue. 'If I got this far this is what I'd say'. Chances are that dude will be fired if they track him down.
 

Bigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,618
I hope by some act of god yesterday's news doesn't come up during tonight's debate
It's better that they bring it up and nip it in the bud rather than ignoring it.

If they don't bring it up then that gives places like CNN carte blanche to push bullshit like "TENSION GROWS AS BERNIE AND SANDERS TEAMS IGNORE OBVIOUS CONFLICT DURING DEBATE"
 

Deleted member 2426

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,988
I don't see the call center thing being brought up during the debate since it wasn't CNN's "scoop". They'll bring up their own story, but who knows how that will go and for how long because Sanders clearly doesn't want to dwell on it and Warren seemingly doesn't want to either given her statement. I don't see it being a huge thing, but we'll see.

I'd say that it would be good if they address it in a way that delivers a big moment for either Warren or Bernie and a finishing blow for the other one. That's the only way to overcome Biden, left cannibalism.
 

Geist

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,579
US PoliEra 2020 |OT 1| Is this Hell? No, it's the Democratic Presidential Primary
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,927
I'd say that it would be good if they address it in a way that delivers a big moment for either Warren or Bernie and a finishing blow for the other one. That's the only way to overcome Biden, left cannibalism.
I mean, that's not gonna happen. What is Sanders' finishing blow with the story? Sanders will tout his record, mention the millionaires and billionaires, and saw Warren is his friend. Warren won't have a finishing blow either since she'll say it's a distraction, that they're friends, and we need to work together and stop fighting over petty things. Would Sanders calling her a liar be a finishing blow? Would Warren saying Sanders and his staffers are sexist be a finishing blow? They will probably both take the high road and not move the needle much, would be my guess.

Vince comtemplating whom he wants to visibly watch burn on stage first after he torches the building.

He's giving the look to Meryl Streep for winning an honorary award during which she spoke ill of the president and defended herself and others from his twitter attacks. That's what caused those faces. lol
 

Sir Tsunami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,312
Imagine thinking a plan with steps is less realistic than changing the minds of millions on the sheer power of hopefulness
 

Arm Van Dam

self-requested ban
Banned
Mar 30, 2019
5,951
Illinois
New PPP North Carolina Dem primary poll, 509 LV NC voters, Jan 10-12


Our new North Carolina primary poll finds:
Joe Biden 31
Bernie Sanders 18
Elizabeth Warren 15
Michael Bloomberg 8
Pete Buttigieg 6
Andrew Yang 5
Amy Klobuchar/Tom Steyer 3: https://www.publicpolicypolling.com/polls/biden-cunningham-lead-in-north-carolina/



In the Democratic Senate primary it's:
Cal Cunningham 22
Erica Smith 12
Atul Goel 3
Trevor Fuller 2
Steve Swenson 1
60% are still undecided:
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984

Here's Sanders plan : Do whatever it takes, the fight starts on day one, and we go into details as it takes shape within government. I've also outlined ways to pay for it and the cost savings projected over the long term. This is a cultural fight that will involve changing the values in Washington to convince people and make M4A a reality. He has even said that yes, he would break Senate norms to do it.

It is a plan, quite literally. It's just not him getting into the weeds during the primary cycle. Sanders has put forth the argument and signaled his intents and tactics. This is exactly what you want to do in a primary, you don't want to get bogged down doing the stuff that should come after, because then you bungle it just like Warren did.

Warren doesn't get 'wins by default' on the 'Medicare for all' plan because she released a bad implementation road-map that isn't workable. Warrens plan is :

Nothing changes in Washington and you don't need to do anything.

But we can make it work by under estimating the cost by at least 10 trillion dollars, after passing immigration reform first that will magically generate hundreds of billions of dollars beyond what goes to the state and local level, after cutting defense spending by almost a trillion dollars, and after we successfully implement the Public Option with a laundry list of impossible caveats attached to that alone, and then, after the next round of elections where the Republicans would surely regain control of the senate or the house, Medicare for all.

Sanders battle plan is more realistic than any one of the items on Warrens list being attached as a prerequisite to Medicare for All, and if you can't see that or how this ship shod plan damaged her image as a policy wonk, I dunno what to say to you.
 
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