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cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
23,821




Burgess Everett @burgessev



Here's some more spicy Mike Lee:


"One of the messages that we received from the briefers was: Do not debate, do not discuss the issue of appropriateness of further military intervention against Iran. And that if you do you'll be emboldening Iran"

"I find this insulting and demeaning. Not personally, but to the office that each of the 100 senators in this building happens to hold. I find it insulting and demeaning to the Constitution of the United States"



"I hope that they'll come back and say, 'you misunderstood us, we didn't say that at all.' I wish I could believe that"

Said he was undecided on Kaine's war powers resolution

"that briefing is what changed my mind ... I walked into the briefing undecided. I walked out decided"



"It is not acceptable ... to come in and tell us that we can't debate and discuss the appropriateness of military intervention against Iran. It's un-American. It's unconstitutional. And it's wrong. And I hope they will show more deference to their limited power in the future"

4:43 PM - Jan 8, 2020



PsSu6MY.jpg
 
Oct 27, 2017
934
Omaha




Burgess Everett @burgessev



Here's some more spicy Mike Lee:


"One of the messages that we received from the briefers was: Do not debate, do not discuss the issue of appropriateness of further military intervention against Iran. And that if you do you'll be emboldening Iran"

"I find this insulting and demeaning. Not personally, but to the office that each of the 100 senators in this building happens to hold. I find it insulting and demeaning to the Constitution of the United States"



"I hope that they'll come back and say, 'you misunderstood us, we didn't say that at all.' I wish I could believe that"

Said he was undecided on Kaine's war powers resolution

"that briefing is what changed my mind ... I walked into the briefing undecided. I walked out decided"



"It is not acceptable ... to come in and tell us that we can't debate and discuss the appropriateness of military intervention against Iran. It's un-American. It's unconstitutional. And it's wrong. And I hope they will show more deference to their limited power in the future"

4:43 PM - Jan 8, 2020



PsSu6MY.jpg



so good. now also vote for impeachment witnesses out of spite.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,816
Even if there was an imminent threat, how does killing Soleimani defuse it? It's not like there's a claim being made that he and he alone was going to be the attacker. Killing bin Laden on September 10th wouldn't have stopped 9/11. Killing the hijackers would've gone a lot further in doing that!

The mistake you and everyone is making is equating the Iranian government with a terrorist organization. Yes we can classify the Iranian military as a terrorist organization and they may even engage in some subversive plots. But the fact remains the Iranian military government is still a part of a full functioning government.

This means taking out a single top-level government official isn't going to have the same effect as taking out a top terrorist leader. In a functioning government, whatever plans that were on the desk will be there the next day for the deputy or next in line to pickup. Whatever advantage you get from taking out the special skills of the individual targeted, you end up rallying a whole sovereign nation against you and the risk is the replacements end up being more hardline.

Unless you plan to literally topple a government of a nation, just taking out a single government official doesn't do much to change the battlefield. Whereas with terrorist who mostly hide in the shadows, taking out a top leader can paralyze their organization more because often terrorist groups are glorified cult of personality with a largely uneducated following (Basically Trumpers in desert caves).

So this is the flaw with treating Soleimani as a typical terrorist target like Bin Laden. The Trump Admin is trying to square that circle by bringing up Baghdadi but it's illogical. But you are right in that if there was imminent threat, just killing Soleimani wouldn't be enough. You'd need to take out the entire military/rebel regiment that is about to engage in said imminent attack. You're right there. I'm just bringing up the point, the argument itself is flawed when we make comparisons between Soleimani and Bin Laden. You can't compare government officials of sovereign nations to terrorists hiding in caves.
 

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
23,821

Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,943
I guess Lee and Rand calculated and realized this shit is so unpopular that they won't lose significant votes from this so they can do their maverick thing.

Meanwhile Rubio has no qualms with being a stooge for the rest of his days in the Senate.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,620
The mistake you and everyone is making is equating the Iranian government with a terrorist organization. Yes we can classify the Iranian military as a terrorist organization and they may even engage in some subversive plots. But the fact remains the Iranian military government is still a part of a full functioning government.

This means taking out a single top-level government official isn't going to have the same effect as taking out a top terrorist leader. In a functioning government, whatever plans that were on the desk will be there the next day for the deputy or next in line to pickup. Whatever advantage you get from taking out the special skills of the individual targeted, you end up rallying a whole sovereign nation against you and the risk is the replacements end up being more hardline.

Unless you plan to literally topple a government of a nation, just taking out a single government official doesn't do much to change the battlefield. Whereas with terrorist who mostly hide in the shadows, taking out a top leader can paralyze their organization more because often terrorist groups are glorified cult of personality with a largely uneducated following (Basically Trumpers in desert caves).

So this is the flaw with treating Soleimani as a typical terrorist target like Bin Laden. The Trump Admin is trying to square that circle by bringing up Baghdadi but it's illogical. But you are right in that if there was imminent threat, just killing Soleimani wouldn't be enough. You'd need to take out the entire military/rebel regiment that is about to engage in said imminent attack. You're right there. I'm just bringing up the point, the argument itself is flawed when we make comparisons between Soleimani and Bin Laden. You can't compare government officials of sovereign nations to terrorists hiding in caves.
You say this is a mistake I'm making and then make the exact same point I was getting at lol. I am not calling Soleimani a terrorist target like bin Laden, I only raised the comparison to illustrate the stupidity of the assertion that killing Soleimani prevents an imminent attack from occurring as if the ability to execute that attack rested on him and him alone.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,877
Man, I remember when Marco Rubio was a future POTUS.

Now he's just a water-guzzling goof who hates everything about the Senate except for licking the boots of one of the worst world leaders of all time.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,816
Yeah I saw the video of Mike Lee. He's hopping mad. Probably won't last though.

You'd think these GOP Senators could put 2 and 2 together and figure out that being subservient toadies to Trump constantly has consequences. When Trump thumbs his nose at the entire impeachment process, what makes you think he feels any need to give any real information to Congress on matters of military action? Reap what you sow and all....
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,886
I usually kinda shrug at speculation over Trump's weird speech behavior but yeeeeeahhh he was definitely on something here
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,963
South Carolina
I dont understand the angle on these four senators to ask for the articles while their GOP colleagues are cooking over the coals.

You don't get water in that situation, you get lighter fluid.

If Florida Man was doing what Russia wants the US would GTFO of Iraq and Syria.
Not everything is about Putin.

*looks back on the last few months in America's ME Policy*



Cuz, you know, how you said it, that's exactly where it's headed. In the WORST way.
 

UberTag

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
15,352
Kitchener, ON
Wow, you ain't bullshitting either.


As if we needed a reason to dislike her even more.
There is absolutely ZERO excuse that someone like Feinstein should be representing the Democrats in California. ZERO.
Primary her ass out of there. By any means necessary.
Ditto for Schumer in New York.

People like them should only be catered to in purple states like Arizona and West Virginia.
Leave the Manchins and Sinemas alone and go after this trash.
 

Avinash117

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,602
This. I think he hopes that economic sanctions will bring them to the table much like China tariffs are keeping those discussions open. What he doesn't realize is that they can simply outwait him. He also is not realizing that China is still winning in the tariff war and among real losers are American citizens who are paying higher prices. But he gets to look good, so there's that.


It is not just that there is very little reason for Iran to go back of no nuclear enrichment, they can't trust future administrations, and they don't know if the current administration will still attack them anyway. The USA already killed their most popular general, so the USA is already openly aggressive towards them. There is little reason to follow the current deal and more reason now to continue to achieve nuclear weapons. This year, we'll likely hear more and more about Iran getting close and because of that Israel and Saudi Arabia might do something drastic. The orginial deal was to prevent that from happening, now it seems an attack is very likely in the future. Trump was also very close to attacking Iran last year, I wouldn't be surprised if Trump would go ahead and try again.
 

lenovox1

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,995
There is absolutely ZERO excuse that someone like Feinstein should be representing the Democrats in California. ZERO.
Primary her ass out of there. By any means necessary.
Ditto for Schumer in New York.

People like them should only be catered to in purple states like Arizona and West Virginia.
Leave the Manchins and Sinemas alone and go after this trash.

She's 205. Is she running for reelection?
 

fragamemnon

Member
Nov 30, 2017
6,839
Warren in that vid is so good. I don't think her trajectory in the race would have been all that different, but I do wish she hadn't gotten near the stink of sanders' m4a garbaggio.
 

Vimes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,276
There is absolutely ZERO excuse that someone like Feinstein should be representing the Democrats in California. ZERO.
Primary her ass out of there. By any means necessary.
Because of the CA jungle primary, she actually ran against a progressive democrat in the general. But incumbency is a hell of a thing so people just voted for her again.

She's dreadful and it was a moral outrage that she didn't retire. It was long ago time for her to move on like Barbara Boxer did and let a younger person build themselves up in a safe seat, as Harris is doing.
 
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lenovox1

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,995
Warren in that vid is so good. I don't think her trajectory in the race would have been all that different, but I do wish she hadn't gotten near the stink of sanders' m4a garbaggio.

You're right, unfortunately. It's her lack of a strong footing with the base that sinks her. The highly educated white population is a bit too fickle and ideologically diverse to depend on as an anchor.

Without the foothold, if it wasn't M4A, it would have been literally anything else.
 
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