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Nocturnal

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,321
So we're at a 4 person race, and I don't see that changing before the first few states

New Hampshire won't go for Biden, Iowa and Nevada being caucuses is also disadvantage for Biden. His only path is getting endorsements from Nevada's powerful unions in the lead up for the Nevada caucus. If he ends up losing all three early contests, he won't be able to rack up the numbers in SC and by the time Super Tuesday with Texas & Cali come he will be strapped for cash. Those two states coming so early is a disadvantage to anyone who is unable to compete in fundraising and so far all signs point to Biden being 3rd or 4th or worse, in fundraising in the next two quarters. Sanders and Warren have such a huge network of donors that are giving them a small amount every month and a lot of these people are politically engaged, volunteer and will be enthusiastically supporting their candidates during the caucuses. Pete will have a hard time convincing anyone besides old white men to vote for him. So despite being the choice for big donors, he will fizzle out after SC. So a 4 person race until the actual voting happens, 2 person race after Super Tuesday if not earlier - Biden's only hope is that somehow Nevada unions back him instead of Warren/Sanders and he somehow wins the caucus there. This will allow him to do better in SC. But if he loses all three he is done even if he ends up winning SC, it won't be by a big enough margin.

Nevada's total union membership in 2018—191,000—is about 13.9% of the total population of employed workers.

The Culinary Union's membership is diverse—54% Latino, 19% white, 15% Asian, 10% black and less than 1% from indigenous populations.
 

Dr. Feel Good

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,996
Maybe? But how would Trump becoming a Florida citizen have anything to do with the Rust Belt? You're conflating two different things.

the collapse of the blue wall was seen as the major downfall of Hillary's loss but it was the early flip of Florida that predicted the night. Lots of parallels of why Florida went to trump carried over to the rust belt which carried him over the line.

Florida and what it looks for in a candidate is a heavy predictor of other swing states.
 

BigWeather

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,426
Unfortunately the nominee in Bernie v. Warren is more likely to be determined by R and I spoilers in open primaries (how many states have these? I know NC does, but only for unaffiliated) than actual issues. Guess it depends whether fear of "socialism" (and in that matchup which one is perceived as "more socialist" at that time, my money is on Bernie) or bias against women. I imagine concerns about electability may be a wash between the two despite it being a huge driver this election.
 

OfficerRob

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,101
Everyone's looking back at Obama 2008 .

If you took Obama from 2008 and moved him into this primary, would he have the same success? I can easily see him being where Booker or Harris are now.
I think you massively underrate Obama's skill as a campaigner, which did and would allow him to break through. There is nobody in this field even close to his level of charisma and ability to connect on the stump. I know this place is all hot and bothered with Warren and Bernie, but no matter what you think of Obama the president, Obama the campaigner was a generational talent.
 

John Dunbar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,229
That honest and trustworthy number for Warren is depressing.
somewhat related, but are there any polls how people feel about that native american "scandal"? i don't think it's going to be an issue in the primary since i doubt any of the candidates are going to bring it up, but you know that in the general fox news and rest of the right wing propaganda machine are going to be blasting it 24/7, so i doubt we've heard the last of it. it's like how hillary got shit until the very end for her exaggerated anecdote about landing under sniper fire, which clearly proved she was by far the worst liar in the history of politics ever.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,545
somewhat related, but are there any polls how people feel about that native american "scandal"? i don't think it's going to be an issue in the primary since i doubt any of the candidates are going to bring it up, but you know that in the general fox news and rest of the right wing propaganda machine are going to be blasting it 24/7, so i doubt we've heard the last of it. it's like how hillary got shit until the very end for her exaggerated anecdote about landing under sniper fire, which clearly proved she was by far the worst liar in the history of politics ever.

Nobody arguing in good faith cares, just like nobody genuinely card about emails or benghazi, they just used it as an excuse to attack a candidate they hated.
 

shiba5

I shed
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
15,789
somewhat related, but are there any polls how people feel about that native american "scandal"? i don't think it's going to be an issue in the primary since i doubt any of the candidates are going to bring it up, but you know that in the general fox news and rest of the right wing propaganda machine are going to be blasting it 24/7, so i doubt we've heard the last of it. it's like how hillary got shit until the very end for her exaggerated anecdote about landing under sniper fire, which clearly proved she was by far the worst liar in the history of politics ever.

My mom was saying Warren was a liar for that, so I dared her to take a DNA test to see if she had Native American blood. She (and I) have been told our whole lives that we had a NA ancestor. We have a picture of her and what tribe and everything. Test came back negative. She took a different one. Same answer. So I do a little digging and the ancestor turned out to be whiter than white and just had an "Indian" sounding name. I laughed my butt off.
My mom doesn't call Warren a liar anymore.
 

The Namekian

Member
Nov 5, 2017
4,877
New York City
"I have a follow up question because I'm annoying"

"It's something that seems scary at first, but you actually like it, like sushi, or butt stuff"

"Cuts military spending, so it's dead in the water"

I will say they have a funny "character" for Warren, and that's like, half the battle with the media and swing voters. Sadly.

Their Warren was great, I think in the first one she basically said Biden needed to go back into retirement to pick taffy out of his veneers.

They keep killing it
 

NoName999

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,906
The Tiresome Demand to Coddle Republicans

Then social media happened, and all the conversations the Left had been having all along, in coffee shops, in college, at meetings of activist groups, at parties, in LiveJournals and blogs, were suddenly being had in full view of everyone. And it wasn't just that people were still mad about bigotry, but that they were so much further along in their analysis and understanding of these issues than they were the last time the Right checked in. They were talking about privileges and microaggressions and intersectionality and ways people could discriminate without even knowing it. All of a sudden, as far as conservatives were concerned, people would think they were jerks if they made fun of a woman for being a "slut" or overweight. Women didn't want to be catcalled. Trans people wanted to be treated like human beings instead of the shocking twist at the end of a Kinks song.

Liberals, they discovered, were even offended by all the things people on the Right had been saying about them all these years. That when we heard someone say something like, "Gay people cause hurricanes with their gay sex," we did not think, "Oh, well, they just have traditional values and beliefs. Live and let live!," and instead thought they were terrible, terrible people.

They found out that the vitriol did, indeed, go both ways. We didn't like them any more than they liked us. We were not being tolerant of their intolerances. And that was a tough pill to swallow. And they got angry. So angry, supposedly, that they elected Trump in hopes that he would make it "OK" for them to be themselves again without any social repercussions.

The fact is, the more you treat people as if they are made of glass, the more they will behave as if they are made of glass, and right now these people are Fabergé eggs.

If the Right hadn't been coddled all along, hadn't been mostly protected from ideas and legislation that might "frighten" them, if they had been made aware that we found most of the things they said about us extremely insulting, perhaps there wouldn't have been as big of a culture shock when social media came around. Perhaps the Right would have developed a slightly thicker skin and there wouldn't be this huge double standard where they get to go around saying cruel things, walk around wearing T-shirts that say "Fuck your feelings," and then fall into heaving sobs the second they think someone is being "mean" to them or "their president." Perhaps they wouldn't "need" Trump as they feel they do now.

At the very least, we sure as hell know the other way didn't work. So maybe it's time to put the high road under construction.

TD;LR: Even when conservatives thought liberals weren't as antagonizing, it helped little with winning them over.
 

Vector

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,657
Harris polling at 2% is shocking considering reputable polling analyst Nate Silver had her at #1 as most likely to win the nomination not that long ago.
 

Zach

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,712
somewhat related, but are there any polls how people feel about that native american "scandal"? i don't think it's going to be an issue in the primary since i doubt any of the candidates are going to bring it up, but you know that in the general fox news and rest of the right wing propaganda machine are going to be blasting it 24/7, so i doubt we've heard the last of it. it's like how hillary got shit until the very end for her exaggerated anecdote about landing under sniper fire, which clearly proved she was by far the worst liar in the history of politics ever.
Nobody arguing in good faith cares, just like nobody genuinely card about emails or benghazi, they just used it as an excuse to attack a candidate they hated.
While my son and his mom are liking Warren more and more, this still sticks in their craw. They're Cherokee. I think it's kinda crummy of you to dismiss these concerns outright.
 

shiba5

I shed
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
15,789
This is amazing. Jared's thoughts on Kim Jong Un:



From here: https://www.foxnews.com/media/kim-jong-un-trump-doug-wead

"'It's a father thing,' Kushner observed. 'You can see from these letters that Kim wants to be friends with Trump, but his father told him never to give up the weapons. That's his only security. Trump is like a new father figure. So, it is not an easy transition.'"

Is it any wonder that these galaxy brains get rolled by every tin pot dictator on earth?
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,545
While my son and his mom are liking Warren more and more, this still sticks in their craw. They're Cherokee. I think it's kinda crummy of you to dismiss these concerns outright.

Yeah, your totally right to call me out on this. I was only thinking about the people who repeat fox talking points and not the actual native americans themselves.

My bad.
 

Zach

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,712
Yeah, your totally right to call me out on this. I was only thinking about the people who repeat fox talking points and not the actual native americans themselves.

My bad.
That's kind of what I figured. And that's the problem. We sometimes get hung up on defending against the obviously bad faith, politically motivated people and become blind to issues that affect minority groups and/or small voting blocs.

Anyway, I appreciate that you see the problem, too. And I think Warren's done an alright job since then. Hopefully she keeps highlighting American Indian concerns, which I think will be helpful to her cause and is the right thing to do regardless.
 

OmniOne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,063


The Democratic horserace in the new national NBC/WSJ poll:

Biden 27% (-4 pts from Sept)
Warren 23% (-2)
Sanders 19% (+5)
Buttigieg 6% (-1)
Klobuchar 5% (+3)
Harris 4% (-1)
Yang 3% (-1)
Booker 2% (unchanged)
Gabbard 2% (+1)

Democratic primary voters, +/- 4.8%

More or less ABC and NBC are in the same ball park.

Good GE numbers for Warren too.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,545


The Democratic horserace in the new national NBC/WSJ poll:

Biden 27% (-4 pts from Sept)
Warren 23% (-2)
Sanders 19% (+5)
Buttigieg 6% (-1)
Klobuchar 5% (+3)
Harris 4% (-1)
Yang 3% (-1)
Booker 2% (unchanged)
Gabbard 2% (+1)

Democratic primary voters, +/- 4.8%

More or less ABC and NBC are in the same ball park.

Good GE numbers for Warren too.


Tulsi support doubled, thanks hillary!
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,629
The World
why are you downplaying this? Florida was the catalyst for Hillary's loss in 2016.Regardless of the rust belt Florida has major influence across lots of swing voters and Trump securing it is very worrisome for any Dem candidate.

but yes continue to have your fingers in your ears pretending 2020 wont be too close for comfort.

you people need to stop living in a fucking bubble.

Trump can't win without Florida, Dems Can. And Dems will find it tough to win Florida if they could not in 2018.
 

Zip

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,027
Hm, weird. Last month they had Warren and Biden both leading Trump by 10 points.

Seems to me like the rhetoric against Warren has been amped up since she started to get close to Biden. Scary commie socialism and economy crasher and all that jazz. Maybe it has dragged her down a bit amongst people who don't like Trump...but will tolerate kids in cages and mass corruption etc. over a dirty commie.
 
Nov 20, 2017
3,613
Also, please note that Hillary bashing isn't some sort of guaranteed winning calculus in the Dem primary (shocker!). (And well especially Obama bashing, but that's probably clear to all but the most blinkered.)

 

Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,943
Hillary yaaaaaaaasssssssss motherfuckers deal with it

Also Michelle why you no interested in politics :(
 

MetalGearZed

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,928
In the Fox News poll, Biden is back to where he was in March (31%). Warren climbed 17pts in that same period but still 10pts behind Biden.

With Bernie back in the high teens, and Warren leveling off, you can definitely see how they're holding each other back.

Bernie is holding Warren back
 
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MetalGearZed

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,928
From the Fox News poll.

By a 69-21 percent margin, voters favor giving everyone the option to buy into Medicare.

Voters split 47-47 percent over getting rid of private health insurance and moving to a government-run health care system for everyone. Among Democratic primary voters, 80 percent favor allowing everyone to buy into Medicare and 65 percent favor a government-run system.
 

MetalGearZed

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,928

Key takeaway from NBC/WSJ poll:

Last month:
43% support impeachment & removal
49% oppose

This month:
49% support impeachment & removal
46% oppose
 

JABEE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,853
7.png
 

Slim Action

Member
Jul 4, 2018
5,573
Its just weird how Biden's general numbers haven't changed at all

Yeah, last year I thought "Biden's only strength is that old white people love him" but maybe that really is all you need, just like in 2015 I thought "Trump's only strength is media manipulation."

But I suppose even that initial assessment of Biden has proven false as he also continues to enjoy strong support from the AA Democratic base.
 
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