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Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,621
What is everyone's opinion in here on reparations?

That's probably the progressive policy that the furthest down on my list for various reasons. I don't even how to implement this policy. Maybe someone can educate me.


Voted today in the early gubernatorial Louisiana election. Higher than normal turnout.
 

Dr. Benton Quest

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,367
What is everyone's opinion in here on reparations?

That's probably the progressive policy that the furthest down on my list for various reasons. I don't even how to implement this policy. Maybe someone can educate me.


Voted today in the early gubernatorial Louisiana election. Higher than normal turnout.
Butti has a line about systemic racism needing systemic solutions.

I think monetary compensation should also be a part of it.

People lose their fucking minds whenever you say that.

We could probably start by preventing police from indiscriminately murdering black people though.
 

spx54

Member
Mar 21, 2019
3,273


someone at the Intercept was playing with footsies with Steve Bannon (gee..I wonder who?)
 

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
23,821


someone at the Intercept was playing with footsies with Steve Bannon (gee..I wonder who?)

>


VYoF0Iq.png
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
I can think of at least one candidate who said open borders was a Koch brothers plot to depress the wages of the American worker as recently as 2016.

So you have to be careful with these candidates! They aren't trustworthy on immigration. You have to hold their feet to the fire every moment, and applaud them like a six year old when they remember to mention it. Otherwise they won't.
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
Aaron Noted on your post. I don't disagree with most of what is said and I agree that this is so far ahead into the future that it's not really our place to discuss the minutia of political leverage among congress.
Yeah, I mean it's not like I know shit about what goes on behind closed doors in Congress either, I'm just reminded too often of the healthcare fight in 09-10 when hobbyists in PoliGAF would say "well if only Obama had done THIS, we would have gotten the public option and yadda yadda" and those statements always seemed to just be thrown out devoid of any context. ACA, for all its imperfections, was probably the best we could have gotten with that exact Congressional composition. If anything, Martha Coakley blowing the special election in Massachusetts is probably the biggest catalyst for why the bill couldn't have been any better - it prevented the House and Senate from letting the bill go to conference so they could hash out their differences there, as opposed to having to fix stuff with reconciliation.

The reconciliation bill in the ACA actually does underscore one of the points I made though, that successful negotiation would likely require more sweeteners than just trying to bully wavering senators into supporting bills they don't like. There were plenty of progressives who were understandably miffed about the situation - several of them already voted against the ACA from the left in the House, and now they were expected to swallow the Senate bill as-is. Obama and the Dem leadership were able to win their votes not by making concessions on the healthcare policy, but by attaching some completely unrelated provisions regarding student loan reform to the reconciliation package, and it worked. Suddenly you had Dennis Kucinich of all people whipping votes for the ACA.

It's impossible to game any of this out without knowing what next year's Senate looks like - it'd be great if we could hit 52 so we could disregard Sinema or Manchin's votes, but even then there's no guarantee the filibuster will go away. But if we just flip ME, CO, AZ and NC while losing AL, we're at 50-50 and suddenly Manchin is the most powerful person in Washington. It's gonna suck, and we're going to need to check our expectations a bit (not in terms of what we expect from our representatives - we can still rally, protest, light up the phone lines and town halls, etc. - but rather just what will realistically happen).
 

ValiantChaos

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,112
Yeah, I mean it's not like I know shit about what goes on behind closed doors in Congress either, I'm just reminded too often of the healthcare fight in 09-10 when hobbyists in PoliGAF would say "well if only Obama had done THIS, we would have gotten the public option and yadda yadda" and those statements always seemed to just be thrown out devoid of any context. ACA, for all its imperfections, was probably the best we could have gotten with that exact Congressional composition. If anything, Martha Coakley blowing the special election in Massachusetts is probably the biggest catalyst for why the bill couldn't have been any better - it prevented the House and Senate from letting the bill go to conference so they could hash out their differences there, as opposed to having to fix stuff with reconciliation.

The reconciliation bill in the ACA actually does underscore one of the points I made though, that successful negotiation would likely require more sweeteners than just trying to bully wavering senators into supporting bills they don't like. There were plenty of progressives who were understandably miffed about the situation - several of them already voted against the ACA from the left in the House, and now they were expected to swallow the Senate bill as-is. Obama and the Dem leadership were able to win their votes not by making concessions on the healthcare policy, but by attaching some completely unrelated provisions regarding student loan reform to the reconciliation package, and it worked. Suddenly you had Dennis Kucinich of all people whipping votes for the ACA.

It's impossible to game any of this out without knowing what next year's Senate looks like - it'd be great if we could hit 52 so we could disregard Sinema or Manchin's votes, but even then there's no guarantee the filibuster will go away. But if we just flip ME, CO, AZ and NC while losing AL, we're at 50-50 and suddenly Manchin is the most powerful person in Washington. It's gonna suck, and we're going to need to check our expectations a bit (not in terms of what we expect from our representatives - we can still rally, protest, light up the phone lines and town halls, etc. - but rather just what will realistically happen).

The House is not going to be the problem. They are likely to pass ambitious progressive bills. It's the senate where the bills get watered down or die. Reason being the house has more members to spare on votes while in the senate if its 50-50 or 51-49 its a bigger issue. If I was Schumer I would get the PR, DC statehood passed pronto so you can get some extra seats in by Summer 2021 to cushion. Even greater if other territories can be added like Guam etc.
 

Rag

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,874
What is everyone's opinion in here on reparations?

That's probably the progressive policy that the furthest down on my list for various reasons. I don't even how to implement this policy. Maybe someone can educate me.


Voted today in the early gubernatorial Louisiana election. Higher than normal turnout.
I think it's the right thing to do, but I think it is politically impossible and that the racial resentment in this country would solidify even more than it has. From the far right on up to older 'liberals' like Joe Biden, you've got people who see black folks as synonymous with poor folks, and most of those people already think that anyone taking advantage of any kind of government assistance are scum leaching off of society. We almost have to solve income inequality before we can tackle reparations. If you don't tackle income inequality before you do reparations, you'll get a Trumpian White Nationalist winning in a wave election immediately after that happens.
 

spx54

Member
Mar 21, 2019
3,273


republicans are going to do their debt fear mongering again and Pelosi (and Biden if he's elected) are totally going to buy into it

yuck
 

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,729
LOL Pelosi is just posturing for all the ~~~How do we pay for it?~~~ people in the suburbs who gave us the House. We had PayGo last time. It was ignored when we really wanted to pass something. She'll do her best to pass any Democratic president's agenda.

This is the woman who literally got people to end their careers to pass healthcare reform - including a public option, I might add.
 

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
23,821


Nick Confessore @nickconfessore

The thing President Trump singles out for the most frequent praise on twitter, by far, is himself. https://twitter.com/robertmaguire_/status/1190657528297902080 …

3:12 PM - Nov 2, 2019



Robert Maguire @RobertMaguire_

This is amazing.

More than half of President Trump's tweets attack someone or something, but he also uses his Twitter account to express admiration and praise, most notably...of himself. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/11/02/us/politics/trump-twitter-disinformation.html …

za6VciC.jpg


nUFWf4h.jpg


11:50 AM - Nov 2, 2019
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
I think it's the right thing to do, but I think it is politically impossible and that the racial resentment in this country would solidify even more than it has. From the far right on up to older 'liberals' like Joe Biden, you've got people who see black folks as synonymous with poor folks, and most of those people already think that anyone taking advantage of any kind of government assistance are scum leaching off of society. We almost have to solve income inequality before we can tackle reparations. If you don't tackle income inequality before you do reparations, you'll get a Trumpian White Nationalist winning in a wave election immediately after that happens.

Addressing income inequality is not going to do anything about racial resentment. If anything it will make it worse. To believe otherwise is extremely ahistorical.
 

shiba5

I shed
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
15,789


Nick Confessore @nickconfessore

The thing President Trump singles out for the most frequent praise on twitter, by far, is himself. https://twitter.com/robertmaguire_/status/1190657528297902080 …

3:12 PM - Nov 2, 2019



Robert Maguire @RobertMaguire_

This is amazing.

More than half of President Trump's tweets attack someone or something, but he also uses his Twitter account to express admiration and praise, most notably...of himself. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/11/02/us/politics/trump-twitter-disinformation.html …

za6VciC.jpg


nUFWf4h.jpg


11:50 AM - Nov 2, 2019


This can't be right. Lou Dobbs said he was the most humble man ever in the whole of history.
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
LOL Pelosi is just posturing for all the ~~~How do we pay for it?~~~ people in the suburbs who gave us the House. We had PayGo last time. It was ignored when we really wanted to pass something. She'll do her best to pass any Democratic president's agenda.

This is the woman who literally got people to end their careers to pass healthcare reform - including a public option, I might add.
That and pretty much all of Warren's bills are paid for.
 

Pooh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,849
The Hundred Acre Wood
When we get to debates vs Trump, the Dem candidate should absolutely answer that they are going to pay for healthcare by getting Mexico to pay for it. Just throw it right back to Trump's failure on the wall and his promise to get Mexico to pay for it while also damning the media.
 

spx54

Member
Mar 21, 2019
3,273
LOL Pelosi is just posturing for all the ~~~How do we pay for it?~~~ people in the suburbs who gave us the House. We had PayGo last time. It was ignored when we really wanted to pass something. She'll do her best to pass any Democratic president's agenda.

This is the woman who literally got people to end their careers to pass healthcare reform - including a public option, I might add.

feels like she's being awfully candid and not just posturing. I've always had the impression that she believes the rising national debt is a serious issue
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,963
South Carolina
Dank Kush has ALOT of shady billionaire friends all over the world! Glad this is getting out again.

Maddow was all over this last night. Basically Rudy coherced the last president to do the same thing and that hurt the Mueller investigation. Now it seems the new president is also doing it.

All Roads Lead to Putin...And Run Thru Ukraine.



Dont quack, swim, fly, and waddle like a duck if you aint a duck and don't wanna be called a duck
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,620
I think it's fair to take Pelosi at her word here. People were saying Pelosi was just posturing on impeachment all year, but she was actually very resistant to it until the Ukraine whistleblower made it impossible to do anything but pull the trigger on an inquiry.

All that said, if push came to shove, I don't think Pelosi would impede a Warren or Sanders legislative item out of personal opposition to how it's paid for (or not). I just don't think she's simply posturing here either.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,276
I think it's fair to take Pelosi at her word here. People were saying Pelosi was just posturing on impeachment all year, but she was actually very resistant to it until the Ukraine whistleblower made it impossible to do anything but pull the trigger on an inquiry.

All that said, if push came to shove, I don't think Pelosi would impede a Warren or Sanders legislative item out of personal opposition to how it's paid for (or not). I just don't think she's simply posturing here either.

She moved on it the exact second she had the votes to do so.
 

Rag

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,874
Addressing income inequality is not going to do anything about racial resentment. If anything it will make it worse. To believe otherwise is extremely ahistorical.
I genuinely don't know enough to dispute that. I suppose I'm naive for thinking that a lot of race issues are also class issues, and if the GOP can't scare the poor folks in their base into thinking that minorities are the source of their problems, things might start to get better. History doesn't really work in my favor on that argument.
 

spx54

Member
Mar 21, 2019
3,273
"Only Republicans know how to play politics. Democrats are completely, 100%, stone-cold honest at all times."

that's not what I'm saying at all. with all due respect, please don't put words in my mouth.

pelosi has been warning about things like the debt and the presidential candidates shifting to the left all year. I don't think this is posturing.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
feels like she's being awfully candid and not just posturing. I've always had the impression that she believes the rising national debt is a serious issue
"Everyone I dont like is always telling the truth when saying things i dont like and always lying when they say things I like" in action.

Pelosi has zero commitment to pay go lol. The debt is an issue insomuch as Trumps current idiocy is unsustainable, not that having a deficit is bad.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,620
She moved on it the exact second she had the votes to do so.
Come on, absolutely none of the reporting around the time this came out or since has indicated that Pelosi had finally caughtTrump in her trap and was getting the chance to do what she'd wanted to this whole time. It was the sudden pressure from rank-and-file Dems to do something that made impeachment possible, not because Pelosi was secretly leading the conference on the issue. She wasn't going to stop it if the majority was there, but there's absolutely no (known) indication that this was actually her plan all along.
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
I genuinely don't know enough to dispute that. I suppose I'm naive for thinking that a lot of race issues are also class issues, and if the GOP can't scare the poor folks in their base into thinking that minorities are the source of their problems, things might start to get better. History doesn't really work in my favor on that argument.

The GOP doesn't need to convince rural white Americans that people of color are the problem with America. They've believed that since 1776. The GOP followed them. It didn't lead them.

It would certainly be better if they all stopped being racist, but the way that happens is primarily with exposure to people of color over generations. That's the problem with all these lily white rural enclaves. They're just breeding grounds for Nazis.
 

ValiantChaos

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,112
The GOP doesn't need to convince rural white Americans that people of color are the problem with America. They've believed that since 1776. The GOP followed them. It didn't lead them.

It would certainly be better if they all stopped being racist, but the way that happens is primarily with exposure to people of color over generations. That's the problem with all these lily white rural enclaves. They're just breeding grounds for Nazis.

This^
 

Arm Van Dam

self-requested ban
Banned
Mar 30, 2019
5,951
Illinois
Missed this yesterday but also another sign that VA GOP is gonna lose both houses



A sign of Republican jitters ahead of #Va legislative elections? Murmurs in #RVA that key aides to top Republicans have already lined up lobbying, communications gigs for the new year, when the GOP could be in the minority.
 

Teggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
Have to say the interesting thing to come out of the Mueller stuff is that Bannon is a shitty person, but he seemed to be trying to prevent the rest of the campaign from criming while the rest didn't care about how much crime they did.
 

Rag

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,874
The GOP doesn't need to convince rural white Americans that people of color are the problem with America. They've believed that since 1776. The GOP followed them. It didn't lead them.

It would certainly be better if they all stopped being racist, but the way that happens is primarily with exposure to people of color over generations. That's the problem with all these lily white rural enclaves. They're just breeding grounds for Nazis.
I always want to create that mental barrier between the GOP and the people who vote for the GOP, and that Republican voters are the way they are because they've been manipulated, and that most of them deep down have a sense of decency. I almost need those blinders on just to function here in Idaho. I know better. Too many people here are straight up proud that Trump is in office for me to really believe in that sense of decency anymore.
 
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