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Teggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
Ugh trump is speaking to the "values voter" summit.

and lol Bernie calling Liz a capitalist is a huge positive for Liz in the general.
 

Scottt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,212
Iibertarians usually wind up turning into republicans with different PR lines because there's a common theme of "know your place." If you consider air pollution laws a greater injustice than polluted air, you're kinda telling the average person to shut up and take what their superiors decide they deserve.

It's just a different flavor of authoritarianism. Right-wing economic policy doubles as a right-wing social policy. Libertarians are always gonna have a high chance of just being Rand Paul

It seems to me like right-wing economic policy and social policy are opposed, which is what makes the marriage so strange. Non-interventionist economic policies brought about by valuing free enterprise/"boot straps"/deregulation/etc. are incompatible with interventionist social policies based on "traditional values" and religion. And I guess it would also be incompatible between the (dozens of) Republicans who are concerned about climate change but who would also insist on small government.
 

Teggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
There are lots of quality cap makers that make caps that look well constructed and fitting on the head. Trump is a cheapskate so all of his hats, especially the maga hats look like they rolled out of a sweatshop and look like shit. They're square and lopsided. The one that Kanye had was extra terrible.
 

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,729
It seems to me like right-wing economic policy and social policy are opposed, which is what makes the marriage so strange. Non-interventionist economic policies brought about by valuing free enterprise/"boot straps"/deregulation/etc. are incompatible with interventionist social policies based on "traditional values" and religion. And I guess it would also be incompatible between the (dozens of) Republicans who are concerned about climate change but who would also insist on small government.
Not really, since right-wing social policy is white supremacy, and right-wing economic policy is "cut everything that helps the poor," a group that disproportionately comprises PoC because of historical and structural barriers meant to keep them from attaining parity with white people.
 

aspiegamer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,460
ZzzzzzZzzzZzz...
Imagine bitching about gay marriage. In 2019. QUOTE="RailWays, post: 25389314, member: 2856"]
tenor.gif

Glad he's getting back in the game
[/QUOTE]
Hey, I remember this! I was in hig... Errr Pre school!
 

corasaur

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,988
It seems to me like right-wing economic policy and social policy are opposed, which is what makes the marriage so strange. Non-interventionist economic policies brought about by valuing free enterprise/"boot straps"/deregulation/etc. are incompatible with interventionist social policies based on "traditional values" and religion. And I guess it would also be incompatible between the (dozens of) Republicans who are concerned about climate change but who would also insist on small government.


Where I disagree is that I would describe right-wing social policy as non-interventionist, as well. The civil rights act, the voting rights act, laws establishing marriage equality, etc, are all laws that amount to an intervention to reduce peoples' opportunities to discriminate. "don't regulate my factory even if it's probably giving 50,000 people downwind of me cancer" can come from the same exact emotional place as "stores should be allowed to refuse service for bigoted reasons." The common theme is "it shouldn't matter if i harm people unless you catch me on tape stabbing someone. fuck off and deal with it.

there's also the southern strategy side of it, of course. social programs got demonized with racist concepts like Reagan's talk of welfare queens.
 
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adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,215
lol

Thank you Bernie. That's the best endorsement of why Warren is superior to you that you could have possibly made.
 

loquaciousJenny

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,457
Surely this statement will help Warren get Bernie's voters so she can beat back Biden and this hellscape primary can end.
Just drop out
 

aspiegamer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,460
ZzzzzzZzzzZzz...
Kudos to Bernie for making Liz a more mainstream and moderate candidate!

Holy shit uptown Chicago is pricey. I'm here, uh, to research mayority white but deep blue neighborhoods!
 

Scottt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,212
Not really, since right-wing social policy is white supremacy, and right-wing economic policy is "cut everything that helps the poor," a group that disproportionately comprises PoC because of historical and structural barriers meant to keep them from attaining parity with white people.

Racism and classism are definitely central drivers. It just always seems bonkers to me that poor white people in red states would continue voting for a party that cuts their access to social welfare provisions. My bafflement is partly because the mix of authoritarianism and anti-authoritarianism is a bi, but also because racist and religious zealotry manages to overwhelm their own sense of well-being. Maybe the white people in those states aren't so poor as I imagine though.

Where I disagree is that I would describe right-wing social policy as non-interventionist, as well. The civil rights act, the voting rights act, laws establishing marriage equality, etc, are all laws that amount to an intervention to reduce peoples' opportunities to discriminate. "don't regulate my factory even if it's probably giving 50,000 people downwind of me cancer" can come from the same exact emotional place as "stores should be allowed to refuse service for bigoted reasons." The common theme is "it shouldn't matter if i harm people unless you catch me on tape stabbing someone. fuck off and deal with it."

That's a great point. Comparing the policies in terms of "freedom to" does bring them into closer alignment.
 

Deleted member 8257

Oct 26, 2017
24,586
I glanced at Jim Jordan's twitter today. Wow that dude is busy there. 18 tweets today about the whistleblower and impeachment. He is rivaling Hannity with this defense of Dead Leader. One of his ridiculous questions is asking why the whistleblower took so long to come forward, therefore it can't be as bad as they say, LOL.

His spot on primetime Fox News is all but guaranteed. Shitbirds like Sarah Sanders are only "analysts". Jim is going to host his own show.
 

Soul Skater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,201
...Is this supposed to not make me vote for her, Bernie? Because it's not working.
Tbh I'm not sure how else he would have answered the question "you're basically dying and Warren is the same as you so why should anyone vote for you instead?" By saying he's not really a capitalist

I guess he could have said he's Jewish, has a penis and also fuck the Patriots and Red Sox, but that probably wouldn't have been a great response either
 

shinra-bansho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,964
He should have said she lacks a penis. Lean in on that crucial male vote offended by her joke that WaPo seems to think is very important.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,818
Dems need to make sure Trump 100% owns the Turkish incursion, soon to be ethnic cleansing. I mean it's literally 1:1. Trump pulls American troops out, days later the atrocities begin. There's no grey area. If Democrats can't shine a spotlight on that then they don't deserve to be in politics.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,550
I know i'm late on the Mueller takes, but as infuriating as the conclusion of his investigation was, Mueller was the type of person we needed in charge of the investigation.

We needed someone in charge of the investigation where there was absolutely no hint of bias, a life long registered republican who was appointed as FBI director by a republican president and confirmed by every republican senator.

So you could say Mueller sucks, but thats why we needed him, because someone who doesn't suck would have been ripped to pieces by the media as biased. Of course Fox/conservative media tried, but polling shows it was extremely ineffective outside of the hardcore trumpers because there was literally NOTHING that they could attach to to, there was not even a moll hill to make a mountain out of.
 

Bramblebutt

Banned
Jan 11, 2018
1,858
It is forever baffling to me how the GOP manages to function as an alliance between economic and social liberal/libertarianism and traditionalist religious conservatives/authoritarianism.
Libertarians' support of "laissez-faire" is entirely contingent on their security in their economic circumstances and their acceptance within their peer group. This is why when either of these factors breaks down for them, such as being criticized by friends for their dumb opinions or losing their financial stability due to the cruelty of "free" markets, all those people who seem so confident championing free speech and economic non-intervention manage to rally behind figures that espouse a distinctly coercive and unegalitarian return to the mean for White America™.

At least the religious authoritarians are sometimes honest about their motives.
 

Soul Skater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,201
Actually maybe leaning into the patriots would be a better idea

"Do democrats really want to nominate someone who is a patriots fan? How can someone who supports Tom Brady be a champion for social justice"

*DNC crowd roars "BERNIE BERNIE", for the first time*
 

Gotchaye

Member
Oct 27, 2017
702
I mean, I have a fairly low opinion of Sanders, but he does seem to genuinely get along with Warren and I assume he at least recognizes that suicide bombing her campaign is not a good way to move his agenda forward.
Tbh I'm not sure how else he would have answered the question "you're basically dying and Warren is the same as you so why should anyone vote for you instead?" By saying he's not really a capitalist

I guess he could have said he's Jewish, has a penis and also fuck the Patriots and Red Sox, but that probably wouldn't have been a great response either
The other way he could have gone with this would have been to make a bigger deal about small differences in policy, sort of drawing a line and saying that Warren isn't a real progressive because she's not willing to go far enough. Instead he basically said that the difference between them is rhetorical, and rhetorical in a way that 80% of the country is going to side with her on. There's maybe a suggestion there that Warren might go squishy, but it's pretty light.
 

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,085
Then he became a millionaire!
And if you write a best selling book, you can be one too.
This is the equivalent of "warren used to be a republican!", just so you know
Why does he not look at people when he speaks to them, lol. Does he always do this in interviews?
He should have said she lacks a penis. Lean in on that crucial male vote offended by her joke that WaPo seems to think is very important.
and these are even cornier
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,963

I don't see what's wrong with Bernie saying this...in a way.

It's fundamentally a true statement, I guess. Warren has described herself as a capitalist. Bernie has not. That is a difference...on paper. Really cheap paper.

I think it just comes off as petty because these two different labels don't really seem to be describing two different candidates in terms of the problems they see facing the country or how they'd solve them. Warren is kicking Bernie's ass because she's a better and more charismatic politician (...and she didn't just have a heart attack, no tea no shade). But she's not really saying anything different than Bernie is. So why do the different labels really matter?
 

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,215
Personally, I don't have a problem with Bernie saying he's a socialist. I think he should say that a lot. Constantly, in fact. Just, all the time.

:giggles:
 

VectorPrime

Banned
Apr 4, 2018
11,781
Bernie's largest problem is that he has been unable to expand his base, how on earth does this help him in this regard?
 

Deleted member 8257

Oct 26, 2017
24,586
I know i'm late on the Mueller takes, but as infuriating as the conclusion of his investigation was, Mueller was the type of person we needed in charge of the investigation.

We needed someone in charge of the investigation where there was absolutely no hint of bias, a life long registered republican who was appointed as FBI director by a republican president and confirmed by every republican senator.

So you could say Mueller sucks, but thats why we needed him, because someone who doesn't suck would have been ripped to pieces by the media as biased. Of course Fox/conservative media tried, but polling shows it was extremely ineffective outside of the hardcore trumpers because there was literally NOTHING that they could attach to to, there was not even a moll hill to make a mountain out of.
Agree to a small extent but no, Trump was able to malign Mueller and "18 angry Democrats". Brought up nonsensical gripe about Mueller playing golf in Trump resorts, etc. So much so that Mueller himself had to address this garbage.

Mueller did not do anyone favors. Republicans stuck hard with Trump, and the Trumpers dug in further with Strzok/Page garbage. If Mueller wanted to sway independents, he failed. They brushed it off.
 

shiba5

I shed
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
15,791
He's doing nothing but airing his grievances at the "value" voters summit. Because that's all he fucking does.
Well, that and golf.
 

Avinash117

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,602
Racism and classism are definitely central drivers. It just always seems bonkers to me that poor white people in red states would continue voting for a party that cuts their access to social welfare provisions. My bafflement is partly because the mix of authoritarianism and anti-authoritarianism is a bi, but also because racist and religious zealotry manages to overwhelm their own sense of well-being. Maybe the white people in those states aren't so poor as I imagine though.



That's a great point. Comparing the policies in terms of "freedom to" does bring them into closer alignment.

Right-wing social can be both described as interventionist and non-interventionist depending on the context. Right-wingers would never advocate giving groups that have little social power more power; their aim is to keep them at the bottom of the social hierarchy. Obviously, they wouldn't propose policies giving oppressed groups equal rights and if they can get away with it they would enact laws that not so obviously restrict the rights of oppressed groups.

The Republican Party has a sizable portion of populist voters, but they are controlled by the elites of the party, they manged to convince the poor white man to support "fiscal conservationism" by convincing them that prosperity of the wealthy will eventually benefit them and also that their position won't be challenged by minority groups. Social welfare programs might benefit them and minorities as well , but cutting them will effect minorities more - their position in society is still maintained if they get cut. Politically some Republican's would rather cut it in such a way that wouldn't affect their base. It should be kept in mind that the populist portion of the party don't like the establishment faction, but they rather have them then potential liberal.

Trump manged to capture the populist and social conservative factions that is why many Republicans hated Trump at the beginning, he was an real outsider and had the support of voters that elite republicans controlled for a long time.

He's doing nothing but airing his grievances at the "value" voters summit. Because that's all he fucking does.
Well, that and golf.

His grievances are theirs as well.
 

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,215
Just to be clear, I don't think this is an out of bounds attack by Bernie. I think it's a stupid one. Big difference.
 
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