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Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
14,705
O'Rourke is trying to make himself the gun control candidate. Which is both too late and also like there's not a huge amount of air between him and others.

He never had a clear message to his candidacy.

Most of the flops are because there isn't a clear brand or message.

"I'm a prosecutor" who cares why do you keep repeating this. Why are you running for President?
I mean Kamala's been really bad on the stump, has made a ton of self-inflicted wounds, and has been unable to take advantage of any of her boosts of momentum. Beto has also tried to do the same, but it's not a REASON for running for president, and he already showed his hand with "I was born to be in it, man." Neither of them have a coherent reason for running, which is partly why they're doing so poorly.

This was Hillary's issue too, but she has enough residual goodwill and a weak (at first) opponent. Biden is facing the same issues (why are you running?) but has to face more competent candidates than Hillary.
 

Pwnz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,279
Places
Something interesting in the NBC poll is that Trumps job approval is 43/53 but his fsvorability is 38/53. So there's a not small segment of people who dislike him but like the job he's doing. So I assume those are dumbasses who think the economy being good is his doing so hopefully when the economy shits itself next summer he losses those people.

Yeah it's the economy. So those 5% will insta bail of the economy tanks.
 

Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,943
Call me naive but I am pretty surprised the WH counsel signed his name to that screed. It's been a year or so since I read Woodward and Bernstein's Final Days, but my recollection was the WH counsel there wasn't that bold. Plus, given the leaks about McGahn during the early years, I'm not even convinced he'd be on board about this.

Gonna have to google Cipallone (sic) just to see if he really is this much of a nutter.
I'm not and he is.

McGahn probably wouldn't be on board with this.
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,960
South Carolina
I swear, it's small fucking world day. Pat Cipollone, lead counsel for the WH. I wonder where he went to high school?

Covington Catholic in KY? Gee, that sounds familiar, smh.

It's an Asshole Factory. Been saying it.


After meeting with Mick Mulvaney at the White House today, former South Carolina congressman Trey Gowdy has accepted an offer to serve as outside counsel to President Trump, sources tell @PamelaBrownCNN and me.


LoWUZCO.gif


Now I wanna know why...just like I wanna know why he pushed back when Graham and Scott offered him that district judgeship last year.

I know it's almost passe to say at this point but...

... call your congressman and senators, especially if you have a Republican one representing your state.

It's quick, it's easy, and the message can be very simple. "I'm calling to let you know I cannot support President Trump's blatant obstruction and violation of his oath of office. Thank you and have a good day."

Will they buckle? *shrug* But every voice counts.

"Impeach or Resign" or "If we nominate Donald Trump, we will be destroyed and we will deserve it." works too.

Or not and its funny to me.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,885
Florida Man Update: sounds like a split the baby, and send it back for "clarification" once the Constitutional questions can actually be answered, decision

Lawmakers made Amendment 4 an 'administrative nightmare,' federal judge says
U.S. District Judge Robert Hinkle said lawmakers created a system that kept people from voting who couldn't afford to ever pay back fees, despite case law that prohibits blocking access to voting for people who don't have financial resources.

"What we have now is an administrative nightmare," said U.S. District Judge Robert Hinkle, who is overseeing a challenge to the law by the American Civil Liberties Union and other groups, during a Tuesday hearing in Tallahassee.

The ACLU asked Hinkle to temporarily stop the law, which requires felons to pay back all court fees, fines and restitution to victims before being allowed to vote. Hinkle is expected to rule on it in the coming weeks.


But Hinkle made clear that the Legislature's law, which critics have called a "poll tax," raises constitutional questions that attorneys for Gov. Ron DeSantis, Secretary of State Laurel Lee and county elections supervisors were unable to answer after two days of arguments.

It's become an administrative nightmare, he said, because of problems created by lawmakers. Even so, he said it was the Legislature that was best suited to fix the law, which he said was preferable to judges like himself trying to fix it.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,934
I mean Kamala's been really bad on the stump, has made a ton of self-inflicted wounds, and has been unable to take advantage of any of her boosts of momentum. Beto has also tried to do the same, but it's not a REASON for running for president, and he already showed his hand with "I was born to be in it, man." Neither of them have a coherent reason for running, which is partly why they're doing so poorly.

This was Hillary's issue too, but she has enough residual goodwill and a weak (at first) opponent. Biden is facing the same issues (why are you running?) but has to face more competent candidates than Hillary.
The only part of this I disagree with of that Harris had been really good on the stump. It's why she's remained in the top 5 this entire primary, and why she had the largest Dem campaign event until Warren's NY Ralley.

Her problem is not knowing how to build on momentum
 

Soul Skater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,201
The intellectual heavyweight in the race is leading. Which is the only commonality in the last 6 (?) Dem primaries.
This is actually a good take

Dems do seem to get behind the person who comes off like they know more about stuff than their opponents

Problem is only the cool ones actually then go to win the general and the intellectual dorks flop hard.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,927
So, you're for a black woman running, just not this black woman?

Gotcha.
This is incredibly disingenuous. Lots of people here have been supportive of Harris including her attack on Biden at the first debate. The sad thing is that she failed to capitalize on that moment afterwards and squandered her post-debate bump. She has been seemingly unprepared for some questions to her record, and has waffled on direct questioning of her platform. She may be "your girl" as you say, but flailing around accusations when she's near the bottom of the cutoffs now isn't helpful to anything, including her.
 

Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
14,705
The only part of this I disagree with of that Harris had been really good on the stump. It's why she's remained in the top 5 this entire primary, and why she had the largest Dem campaign event until Warren's NY Ralley.

Her problem is not knowing how to build on momentum
She's bad on the stump and you sort of just said why. Her initial launch was huge, and that goes with the huge expectations we all had for her. She was never was able to match her initial launch because she was never able to organically build on that movement.

And then she does stuff like the "mentally retarded" stuff, and it all kind of builds into someone who just doesn't feel comfortable with their place in the race because they don't have a coherent thesis for running. That's ultimately her biggest issue, and it's also the biggest issue for a lot of also-rans.
 

AnotherNils

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,936
Also, remember those reports about how Trump wanted to sue to stop impeachment? This is pretty much the closest thing he could do.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,934
This is incredibly disingenuous. Lots of people here have been supportive of Harris including her attack on Biden at the first debate. The sad thing is that she failed to capitalize on that moment afterwards and squandered her post-debate bump. She has been seemingly unprepared for some questions to her record, and has waffled on direct questioning of her platform. She may be "your girl" as you say, but flailing around accusations when she's near the bottom of the cutoffs now isn't helpful to anything, including her.
Show me the top candidate who hasn't "flopped" on an issue. You don't demonstrate that in this post.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,934
She's bad on the stump and you sort of just said why. Her initial launch was huge, and that goes with the huge expectations we all had for her. She was never was able to match her initial launch because she was never able to organically build on that movement.

And then she does stuff like the "mentally retarded" stuff, and it all kind of builds into someone who just doesn't feel comfortable with their place in the race because they don't have a coherent thesis for running. That's ultimately her biggest issue, and it's also the biggest issue for a lot of also-rans.
I don't disagree with this. I just don't see it as the crutch of her campaign..I mean, regarded the "retarded" issue, she didn't even say.those words herself. Society as a whole hasn't caught up. She's being hung for not disagreeing fast enough.

My biggest issue with Kamala's campaign IS that it's too slow to course correct.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,927
Show me the top candidate who hasn't "flopped" on an issue. You don't demonstrate that in this post.
Show me were I used the word "flopped" or implied it was on a single issue in that post?

Demonstrate to me that I have to negatively highlight every other top candidate in order to build a case for or support someone I was one really excited for and was hoping to drive and volunteer at her campaign headquarters this winter when she announced early this year that she was running.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,885
Rudy Colludy, how does your treason grow?

Oops!

President Donald Trump directed Secretary of Energy Rick Perry and two top State Department officials to deal with his private attorney Rudy Giuliani when the Ukrainian President sought to meet Trump, in a clear circumvention of official channels, according to two sources familiar with the conversation.
Trump believed Ukraine was still rampantly corrupt and said that if President Volodymyr Zelensky wanted to meet with him, Giuliani would have to be convinced first, one source said.
"If they can satisfy Rudy, they can satisfy the President," a person familiar with the meeting said.

 

Vimes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,276
Demonstrate to me that I have to negatively highlight every other top candidate in order to build a case for or support someone I was one really excited for and was hoping to drive and volunteer at her campaign headquarters this winter when she announced early this year that she was running.
Yeah that's the thing. I think a lot of people expressing disappointment in Harris had her as their #1 not too long ago. I know that's the case for me.
 

Double 0

Member
Nov 5, 2017
7,430
Kamala would have been an awesome candidate with a better campaign team. Her team did her a disservice. Your team is meant to make sure it's clear who you are as a candidate.

But the other big issue is the one Pete is facing too: she has the wrong person in her lane. That would be Warren.

For Pete, it's Biden.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,934
Show me were I used the word "flopped" or implied it was on a single issue in that post?

Demonstrate to me that I have to negatively highlight every other top candidate in order to build a case for or support someone I was one really excited for and was hoping to drive and volunteer at her campaign headquarters this winter when she announced early this year that she was running.

Apologies. I didn't mean you, singular.

 

FreezePeach

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,811
It's ok, Lindsey told them no.

I'm so pissed about this.
What im curious about....is the conflicting reports of US troops being there. My understanding is Turkey announced an invasion, and then trump pulled out. That would imply Turkey was ready to fight US troops, which hasnt really been a talking point right now. So if there are still US troops there, would they be fighting Russians?
 

Con_Smith

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
574
I feel Kamala, either by virtue of her race or just the amazing job some of the white men have at capturing the media's eye, hasn't been able to really break through the noise as successfully as everyone else. I'm not saying she doesn't work hard but Liz went from folks proclaiming her campaign as DOA to seemingly placing at the front runner with real leg work and heavy messaging(she got plans yo).

I honestly would love to have Kamala as a front runnerbut Liz policy assault and ground game as well as her smart approaches to keeping in the conversation has had me bump her from my number 2 to the top spot.
 

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,116
How do you enforce inherent contempt, though? Does it take the FBI to seize the funds? The IRS? Anything where Trump could get in between the declaration of inherent contempt and the execution of it?

There are several options on enforcement:
But identifying the legal authorities for Congress's power to directly fine federal officials is only the first part of the question. Congress must also resolve how such fines will be imposed. There are at least three potential options. First is to borrow the procedures from the closest analogy: Congress's past experience with fining its own members. Congress has previously fined its own in response to ethics investigations. In some cases, Congress has issued a formal finding ordering the member to write a check to the Treasury Department to pay for the fines; in other cases, the committees have asked the sergeant-at-arms to deduct from the member's salary. In instances where Congress has deducted from a salary, instead of asking the member to write a check directly to the Treasury, it has relied on the authority of the sergeant-at-arms to certify the salary of each member before it is transmitted to the Treasury Department for payment.

Because the sergeant-at-arms does not have the same power over other executive officials' salaries, Congress would need to seek another avenue to communicate its message to the Treasury Department if it were to use fines to enforce inherent contempt. The sergeant-at-arms might derive the power to request such salary deduction from the Debt Collection Improvement Act (DCIA), which was enacted in 1996 and established an administrative process for garnishing the salaries of federal officials found to be indebted to the U.S. government and delinquent on their debt. The act requires the agencies to notify the Department of Treasury's Financial Management Services (FMS) when they become aware that a federal employee is delinquent on a nontax debt. The DCIA also defines nontax debt to include "[a]ny fines or penalties assessed by an agency," and its definition of agency includes all executive, judicial and legislative departments or agencies. A fine assessed by Congress should therefore fall under this act.
The main body in charge of enforcing this provision, since its adoption, has been the Government Accountability Office (GAO). GAO is among the more esoteric government offices in Washington, D.C. The agency exerts a tremendous amount of power and influence over distribution of the federal budget, second, perhaps, to the Treasury Department. It owes some of this unique influence to its status as a legislative agency. Given the agency's close ties to Congress, relying on GAO's discretion removes the perennial problem of dealing with executive departments that are often unaccommodating in enforcing contempt power.

Second, and perhaps more importantly, Congress has previously triggered the process of GAO's reviews of violations under the act by merely sending a request letter to GAO, as opposed to taking a full vote in the House. GAO's exercise of this power has been met with executive pushback in the past, particularly the claim that enforcement of the act violated the executive privilege. GAO has addressed such concerns before, asserting that "absent an opinion from a federal court concluding that [the provision] is unconstitutional," the agency will continue to enforce it. GAO continues to make its own determinations of the balance between the executive privilege interest and Congress's need for information.

Like a lot more at the link.

Can't trump just pardon whomever is busted for inherent contempt?

Nope.

(page 37-38)
Arguably, an inherent contempt proceeding takes place wholly outside the criminal code, is not subject to executive execution of the laws and prosecutorial discretion, and thus, appears completely beyond the reach of the executive branch. Furthermore, as previously indicated, inherent contempt, unlike criminal contempt, is not intended to punish, but rather to coerce compliance with a congressional directive.287
Thus, a finding of inherent contempt against an executive branch official does not appear to be subject to the President's Pardon power —as an inherent contempt arguably is not an "offense against the United States," but rather is an offense against a house of Congress. Likewise, it appears that the same arguments would be applicable to a potential civil enforcement by Congress.
 

shinra-bansho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,964
Lol, Kamala Harris is not good on the stump. She's pretty awks.

She didn't disagree fast enough versus actual reality where she praises the man and pretends she didn't hear later.

You have blinkers on.
 

Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,943
I feel Kamala, either by virtue of her race or just the amazing job some of the white men have at capturing the media's eye, hasn't been able to really break through the noise as successfully as everyone else. I'm not saying she doesn't work hard but Liz went from folks proclaiming her campaign as DOA to seemingly placing at the front runner with real leg work and heavy messaging(she got plans yo).

I honestly would love to have Kamala as a front runnerbut Liz policy assault and ground game as well as her smart approaches to keeping in the conversation has had me bump her from my number 2 to the top spot.
As the thread has been saying, Kamala's team just isn't very good at PR, comms, coaching, and just plain getting her out there.

I think she would easily be very competitive with Forma and Biden if her team were better.

Thankfully she is young (though she REALLY doesn't look 54 WTF) and will be a top pick for the next couple of cycles provided she gets better people.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744

This is fucking awful.
Kamala would have been an awesome candidate with a better campaign team. Her team did her a disservice. Your team is meant to make sure it's clear who you are as a candidate.

But the other big issue is the one Pete is facing too: she has the wrong person in her lane. That would be Warren.

For Pete, it's Biden.
Harris hired her sister as her campaign manager which... probably wasn't a good idea.

Also everyone jumped into Bernie's lane because everyone kind of learned all the wrong lessons from 2016.
 
Oct 30, 2017
2,365
So....in order for GOP Congress to go along with Trumps defense, they have to agree that they themselves have no power or oversight over the Executive branch.

When the Senate has to review and decide on the validity of the impeachment articles, they'll have to tacitly admit that despite Trump clearly obstructing THEIR OWN BRANCH of government, they either don't care, or agree with the President.

...let's see how that goes.
Please, let's be realistic. They won't address Trump's argument at all. They'll just say there hasn't been enough evidence to show Trump broke the law and then spew some whataboutism about Biden or Hillary and Jim Jordan will spew some party line rhetoric about how it was all made up anyway.
 

shinra-bansho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,964
We dunk on Sanders for picking a garbage team all the time. She leads her campaign (with as noted above her sister as campaign Chair).

The recent Times story about how the initial plan was to just ignore Iowa and NH was lol af

Warren is the wine track candidate trying and extending into the beer track.

Biden is the beer track candidate.

Buttigieg tried to be wine track, but is now trying beer track.

Harris doesn't have a track.
 
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