On everything but guns, racial issues, and women's reproductive rights, I guess; just those little things that take a backseat to bringing those millionaires and billionaires to heel.
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US PoliEra 2019 |OT8| WHITE HOUSE ADMITS TO QUID PRO QUO WITH UKRAINE
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That's literally not how politics works, or even governance. You could drop single payer on the floor of the House and Senate tomorrow, and it wouldn't pass. We sure as hell wouldn't land somewhere in the middle. That wouldn't pass either. What you need to do is push for the furthest thing you can realistically pass. Don't start with zero second abs when the best you know you can do (because of both political realities and also....reality based things like math) is 2 second abs...which is better than no abs at all. As much as leftists want to complain about "moderate" folks in the House and Senate....their votes are still needed. Nothing is getting passed without some marginal district folks.
But, to circle back to your original point, you literally just said that, in your opinion, to be a Democrat you need to be in favor of single payer....so, when single payer inevitably fails because of both political reality and...actual reality (because it's totally unworkable under our current health infrastructure) ....do you redefine what it means to be a democrat again? These types of statements are the issue. We're the party that wants to give everyone access to healthcare--but the notion that there is only ONE specific way to do that, and everyone else is either cowards, doesn't care, etc is the problem.It's a terrible way to try to gain political support for a position, be that among the general populace or even within the party.
I think folks (and this isn't directed at you), especially the incredibly online folks, are really, really monolithic in the political folks they hang around with, and they sorta aren't the best barometer of what most people actually consider the left/right/centrist divide. Folks are not as left as people like to pretend, nor are they as right as the GOP likes to pretend. On the American left/right spectrum, something like M4A who want it or a public option IS a left position. I also don't understand the far left's need to run on policies that are incredibly unpopular....especially when far more workable, popular options exist.
Because he finally got off his ass from staying in Vermont and while his impact on the party was felt it wasn't as strong as the liberal or centrist wings in getting legalisation though. That's where it counts. I agree Warren is the path forward.
The base were fine, they're not leftists. It's weird how since '16 the think they've been the backbone of the party since the inception.
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It's maddening as all hell.
I'm old enough to remember when Hillary was the left most candidate in 2008. Crazy.
Also, the base of the Democratic party are not "leftist." Good lord. Thank goodness for that. The base of the party is voters of color, specifically women of color. The folks who have been doing the shit work for decades upon decades, without the need to be praised on Twitter for it.
I'm almost certain you don't say this in good faith, but let's spend a little time in google anyway, and ignore that his platform in 2016 has had an incredible amount of influence on the platform of the candidates running for 2020. I'll pick out some stuff that stands out to me, and provide sources for your own perusal.
Here are some amendments he's added to legislation that was passed:
- in 1995, requiring corporations to notify victims of fraud and other white collar crime that they are eligible for restitution
- in 2001, securing an additional $100 million in funding for federally qualified community health centers
- in 2001, prohibiting importing of goods made by forced or indentured child labor
- in 2004, securing $22 million increase for low-income home energy assistance and weatherization programs
- in 2007, requiring at least 30% of hot water in federal buildings be provided by solar water heaters
- in 2012, requiring public availability of the database of senior Department officials seeking employment with defense contractors.
He also spent time campaigning across the country to defend the ACA but I assume you'll have objections to that being an accomplishment. (Sorry about the half assed citation on this one, there are a ton of articles that come up when you search for anything healthcare related and Bernie Sanders)
This blog post has links to the mentioned amendments and legislation if you dig that kind of thing.
I'm pretty sure he has some noteworthy accomplishments as mayor as well, but a lot of the legalese I've encountered since putting this together this has left my brain fried, and it's a weekend, so I'm done now.
You can also play with the filters here, to see more amendments and such, as well as legislation he introduced but didn't become law, if that tickles your fancy.
Bernie sounds like a great legislator who should remain in the Senate. Thank you for making that argument.
So his record on those issues is terrible? Wealth inequality is tied to racial inequality. I'm a Warren supporter btw.
So does Warren, she's gotten so much done there!
Just to clarify, I don't actually believe that, but come on.
Yes, but she actually has a chance of winning in the primary. I hope he'll remain in the Senate, continue to demonstrate the legislative prowess you so eloquently described, and ensure that progressive bills get sent to her desk.
OK, I'll accede this point to you out of a desire not to argue over it.
Even then, I don't think that it matters. You can't call someone a centrist when they move leftward because that's what the base wants. You can call them a pragmatist, but not a centrist, and in fact, I'd argue that Hillary Clinton's political philosophy is basically being a pragmatist.
She's clearly been in favor of specific ideals that leftists love - see her work on UHC in the '90s - for a long time. That she also believes in free labor, free trade, and free movement (i.e. classical liberalism) doesn't change that.
Clinton just looked at what her base wanted and then thought about how she could achieve as many of those things in some form as she could, and then she put it in her platform. That's being a good retail politician! Who cares if Bernie came along and exposed that a significant amount of the base wanted certain programs or favored certain leftist ideals? If she was a centrist, she would have ignored all that shit after winning the primary, but she didn't!
This just shows that he'll be a great asset to a President Warren
Bernie record's on guns is abhorrent, and to the right of literally everyone running for President--including Joe Biden. By a lot. By a whole lot. The issue isn't that there are aspects of wealth inequality tied to racial inequality. Of course there are. But it is not the SOLE tie, and Bernie has demonstrated time and time again how poorly he understands this.
Bernie was far more effective in the House than the Senate. Maybe he should go back to the People's House and be a family man. (I should clarify that was a joke. He should stay in the Senate if he wants to.)
Ego? I mean, much like Hillary, Biden is an extremely accomplished politician, legislator and executive, who served a heartbeat away from the Presidency for two terms. I feel like, honestly, he may not exactly push through the ponies that have been promised to the progressive side of the party, but (assuming his mental abilities have not dramatically declined) nobody would say that he wouldn't be able to function well in the role with greater ease than the rest of the field, given his experience.
So I assume he looked at the field and his ego persuaded him to go against Obama's good advice and assume the mantle. He probably thought it would be a cakewalk.
To your point though, I don't know. Maybe I'm just jaded, but I don't get why anybody is running other than wanting to be President. Even Obama, who I got caught up in his inspiration, at the end of the day, his ambition is what made him run. Warren, Bernie, Hillary, Beto, it's all the power of the presidency that they lust for.
James Garfield is the original Jon Snow and I think that's the type of person who I would genuinely believe had no desire for power. Dude just wanted to be a Senator, nominate his buddy and all of a sudden, the convention nominated him against his wishes.
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I'm pretty crtical of Hillary but she wasn't ever a centrist. Left of center to left maybe at worst.
Delaney and Biden are centrists. Obama 2008 ran a centrist like campaign(but then became left until 2016 Obama didn't even look like 2008).
Delaney and Biden are centrists. Obama 2008 ran a centrist like campaign(but then became left until 2016 Obama didn't even look like 2008).
Cool, but don't blame me if I'm not going to take your word for it that he doesn't have a chance and keep donating to and supporting him in the mean time. I'll pop over to your side when it's actually clear that it's going to be Warren.
Biden is not a centrist either, although he is arguably to the right of Hillary.
He is a Moderate Leftist.
I agree with the idea that people run for president because they want to be president. The whole happy warrior thing is a hard sell for a lot of people. Men are more allowed to just straight up say they're doing it because they want to. That's a luxury Warren, Hillary, and Klob can't have. (I included her to be nice....because I'm a nice man.) I do think Biden thought he'd walk through the primary. And, honestly, if it wasn't for Warren, I think he might have. Like, I don't think it's Warren's to lose yet...but we're nearing a critical tipping point. If Biden is continuing to lose in the polls, the whole electability thing is out the window. Plus...he has just really screwed up this whole Ukraine thing something fierce.
The only person in the Biden campaign I feel sorry for is Simone Sanders. She keeps tying herself to these terrible white men when she's incredibly competent at her job. Maybe Warren can pick her up or something, should she go on to win the nomination.
Edit: I think arguing over who or what someone is is kinda whatever.....
But I would argue that Biden is a moderate Democrat...which is not a moderate overall. His entire career he's been smack dab in the center of the Democratic party.
I refuse to bite my tongue when people try to act like this also-ran who was of no threat brought Hillary further left, at most he brings up an issue which Hillary is then also expected to answer, but in no way is he the reason for the most progressive party platform.
Or did Hillary bring Bernie to the right?
Or did Hillary bring Bernie to the right?
I'm going to cut Biden some slack.
Is ego involved? Definitely. Is there a bit of "I paid my dues, and it's my turn"? You betcha.
But I also believe, truly believe, that Biden surveyed the field of candidates, surveyed the electorate as he believed it to be, and decided to run because he really did think he had the best chance of beating Trump.
And I mean, can you blame him? EVERYBODY more or less thought this. Polling demonstrated this (still does). His early donor support demonstrated this. His dominance with the black vote demonstrated this. Hell, back when half you thought "Pocahontas" was DOA, most of you dreaded the idea of Biden getting in the race because you thought this!
Is ego involved? Definitely. Is there a bit of "I paid my dues, and it's my turn"? You betcha.
But I also believe, truly believe, that Biden surveyed the field of candidates, surveyed the electorate as he believed it to be, and decided to run because he really did think he had the best chance of beating Trump.
And I mean, can you blame him? EVERYBODY more or less thought this. Polling demonstrated this (still does). His early donor support demonstrated this. His dominance with the black vote demonstrated this. Hell, back when half you thought "Pocahontas" was DOA, most of you dreaded the idea of Biden getting in the race because you thought this!
I think it's all but done for Biden at this point. I will always remember that his campaign was worth it for finally forcing an impeachment inquiry against Trump. The one good thing about him though, I know he'll campaign fiercely for Liz.
OMG!
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I argue anyone who thinks we cans till work with the GOP is a centrist.
Pretty much. He's only just now starting to show weakness. I think we all expected 2012 Biden to show up, the Biden who manhandled Paul Ryan and let the cat out of the bag on gay marriage. That Biden could have walked to the nomination, the one we got right now will probably bleed out and lose the primary. Which is good.
I would be more shocked if Biden got the nomination than Warren at this point. I think he is well meaning. I think if Warren wasn't in the race, he'd have a good shot. I think his policies are all on point for appealing to the Dem base and the GE as a whole....but I think he's just not getting anyone's tingles in a tangle....and that's part of it in a primary.
I don't hate the man though. I think he gets shit on too much for some things. I don't think he's up for running, but I don't blame him for trying, I guess.
The problem is he isn't even trying to run a campaign.
Can we do this again?
I actually would have liked to have seen a Hillary/Biden primary play out in real time. Because, it would have been actually competitive. I still think Hillary gets it, but I think it's actually close. Would have been more interesting than him running for 2020 tbh.
It's quite possible that you have the best user banner on ERAThe problem is he isn't even trying to run a campaign.
Can we do this again?
How dare you defile the reputation of True American Patriots
Defile? Nunberg is a goddamn legend. Dude got completely shitfaced and went on every show that would have him, dude probably hit up every single bar between each studio that day. He probably did those phone interviews between shots at the bar. I'm surprised we couldn't hear the bar music over the phone.
In my head cannon--a 2016 race between Hillary and Biden---
Hillary still wins women and african american voters, but the latter not by as much. Biden would have, obviously, run better than Bernie.
Older voters are split closer down the middle, with PERHAPS Biden eeking out a marginal win. Again, Hillary doesn't get the insane margin there.
Youth voters break more evenly, though. Since there wasn't really a huge turn up in the number of young voters even with Bernie in the race, Hillary makes up some of the ground Biden could have had with AA voters and the youth. (She wasn't going to get blown out 85/15 or whatever.)
Where it gets more interesting is if the folks who were treating Hillary like the 3rd term Obama (ie West Virginia among other places). Since Biden would literally be the 3rd term, do they break towards her? (She won WV in 2008 after all.) It's probably a wash tbh. I'd also bet dollars to doughnuts she does better in caucuses because her 2016 primary team was pretty competent.
So....I still think she wins, but I think it's a lot closer, far closer to a 2008 (although still not that close) than 2016.
Hillary still wins women and african american voters, but the latter not by as much. Biden would have, obviously, run better than Bernie.
Older voters are split closer down the middle, with PERHAPS Biden eeking out a marginal win. Again, Hillary doesn't get the insane margin there.
Youth voters break more evenly, though. Since there wasn't really a huge turn up in the number of young voters even with Bernie in the race, Hillary makes up some of the ground Biden could have had with AA voters and the youth. (She wasn't going to get blown out 85/15 or whatever.)
Where it gets more interesting is if the folks who were treating Hillary like the 3rd term Obama (ie West Virginia among other places). Since Biden would literally be the 3rd term, do they break towards her? (She won WV in 2008 after all.) It's probably a wash tbh. I'd also bet dollars to doughnuts she does better in caucuses because her 2016 primary team was pretty competent.
So....I still think she wins, but I think it's a lot closer, far closer to a 2008 (although still not that close) than 2016.
They're all at the reeducation camp this weekend to solidify their loyalty to God Emperor Trump.
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The past couple vacations I've taken had some really stupid political shit happen during them:
March 2018- Nunberg's legendary TV appearances
October 2018- Jacob Wohl's dumbass Mueller slander conference
Will be on vacation in 2 1/2 weeks. What stupidity will that bring?
Who can tell anymore. I'm constantly shocked, yet not surprised at all.
Any competent campaign is going to have to see how effectively Gabbard kamikaze'd into Harris at that one debate, understand that she's only here to do that again and be prepared to put her down fast.
The fact she's still in the cult will basically destroy any attacks she tries to make. She has to know that.
I can see all of this...BUT, I see the youth vote breaking more decisively for Hillary. I can't imagine Hillary taking as much shit for the crime bill while running against the man who authored it and still views it as a positive achievement. On paper, she's also the progressive in a race against Biden.
My fanfiction also has Hillary absolutely butchering Biden on stage over Anita Hill. Like, "cut to commercial!' bad.
I remember being in Norway for vacation while the Paul Manafort trial was top headline news and all over the TV there.
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