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Aarglefarg

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,067
Warren is doing the best in the 'also considering' polling.

VDTLPR4.png

 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,927
A random debate thought (well, not random since it's what all the podcasts I follow were talking about this week).

I thought that the ABC debate was overall the more tightly ran of the three we've had so far...but my God all three debates have been carbon copies of each other in terms of what gets brought up. Thinking about everything that didn't get talked about was depressing. We didn't talk about women's rights being under attack, we didn't talk about voter suppression, we didn't talk about SCOTUS, we talked about trade but barely mentioned the looming recession. I mean, the list.

If the October debate starts with a 45+ minute rambling, incoherent, and frankly unhelpful shouting match on incomplete healthcare plans, I'm probably going to change the channel.
 
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Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,604
He has a "theme" and slogan to his campaign, that doesn't make it a purpose for his Presidency. I already said that part of his rationale is that he thinks he's the (only) one that can win, so vanity...

The purpose of his presidency is to effectively be a third term of Obama. I don't think he has ever been subtle about this; he's been quite explicit that he is running to bring America back to what Obama left it as and then move from there. And I actually don't think Biden has said he is the only one who can win, just that he's best candidate to win, which of course every other person running for president would say too...

How y'all think Kavanaugh's kids actually look at him? They really can't believe all the allegations are made up. Feel bad for them knowing deep down their dad's a monster.

The furor over Kavanaugh was so incredibly partisan it's probably really easy for anyone to do the mental gymnastics of "anyone who hates him does so because they're a Democrat" or some shit like that.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,604
A random debate thought (well, not random since it's what all the podcasts I follow were talking about this week).

I thought that ABC debate were overall the more tightly ran of the three we've had so far...but my God all three debates have been carbon copies of each other in terms of what gets brought up. Thinking about everything that didn't get talked about was depressing. We didn't talk about women's rights being under attack, we didn't talk about voter suppression, we didn't talk about SCOTUS, we talked about trade but barely mentioned the looming recession. I mean, the list.

If the October debate starts with a 45+ minute rambling, incoherent, and frankly unhelpful shouting match on incomplete healthcare plans, I'm probably going to change the channel.
tbh I would be perfectly fine if we never had another healthcare debate again.
 

Tamanon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,720
The debates really don't need to cover healthcare again. It's all pointless there.

More questions on trade and the economy....
 

Amibguous Cad

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,033
And Bernie Sanders endorses Rent Control because of course the economically illiterate fuck would.

Economically illiterate? What do you expect the price mechanism to achieve in a crowded city - spur people to build more housing to meet demand? That only works if your city is allowing for new construction. Otherwise it's just a, well... rent, that landlords can extract. There's no economic activity there, there's no incentive to build or grow or innovate, there's just a fixed economic pie and arguments over who should get the biggest slice. I'm fine with that being tenants, even if getting rid of NIMBYs is my number one solution.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,126
A random debate thought (well, not random since it's what all the podcasts I follow were talking about this week).

I thought that the ABC debate was overall the more tightly ran of the three we've had so far...but my God all three debates have been carbon copies of each other in terms of what gets brought up. Thinking about everything that didn't get talked about was depressing. We didn't talk about women's rights being under attack, we didn't talk about voter suppression, we didn't talk about SCOTUS, we talked about trade but barely mentioned the looming recession. I mean, the list.

If the October debate starts with a 45+ minute rambling, incoherent, and frankly unhelpful shouting match on incomplete healthcare plans, I'm probably going to change the channel.
The thing the ironclad Dem issues that everyone from Pelosi to the Squad are fully behind is that the candidates barely differ on them. And no fireworks means people changing the channel. That's why a climate debate wouldn't have worked as well as people thought it would've. Healthcare is the only place these networks think there's any fireworks to be had.

The fact we haven't discussed SCOTUS court packing, Biden's spotty history on women's rights, and how the candidates plan on helping the black community beyond the reparations bill and the BAN PRIVATE PRISONS buzz phrase is a shame though.
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,956


southpaw@nycsouthpaw

Harder and harder to see how James Bennet and his op-ed department full of creepers serve the newspaper's stated mission.

9:22 PM - Sep 14, 2019


So, two issues:

1) Who saw the NYT deleting their "correction" tweet? Because I just tried to show this whole thing to my wife, and it makes less sense now they've deleted not one but two tweets relating to this.
2) Just like with Biden's answers on race, at some point people have to accept that the NYT aren't making "mistakes" they're showing a pattern of how shitty they are. And it's not even like the excuse of "Opinion and investigative reporting are two separate parts of the same paper" can be applied here because from what I can tell, this should've been in the NYT proper, and the decision was made to place it as opinion?
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,927
HA! Is anybody else cackling at the DISSERTATION Mrs. King put on her twitter.

The thing the ironclad Dem issues that everyone from Pelosi to the Squad are fully behind is that the candidates barely differ on them. And no fireworks means people changing the channel. That's why a climate debate wouldn't have worked as well as people thought it would've. Healthcare is the only place these networks think there's any fireworks to be had.
Yeah, this is clear. But I think the Dem debates, as a whole, will ultimately be a disservice to the business of informing the American public if they keep focusing on the same 2-3 top polling issues, and not talking about other issues that are pretty important even if they don't poll as high.

I mean, a 4th debate circling the drain on meandering and vague healthcare talk...
 

Blue Skies

Banned
Mar 27, 2019
9,224
Clicked on a Lebron tweet and looked through the replies.. Yang gang everywhere...
Is this gonna be a problem 2020?
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,959
South Carolina
Im still waiting on people to dig into his millions in paid-off debts but these seemingly endless examples of Kav-To-The-Naw-Naw being a violent choad keep popping up.

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the point, at least subconsciously.

Because it takes effort to be that damn dismissive of campus sexual assault, and in the age of #MeToo.

Join me, in a world where tastemakers ain't bone-headed goobers with less worldly smarts than your average 10th grader.

Clicked on a Lebron tweet and looked through the replies.. Yang gang everywhere...
Is this gonna be a problem 2020?

Seems like it.
 

Blue Skies

Banned
Mar 27, 2019
9,224
I hope so!

God the amount of people who go out there and do write ins or vote 3rd party...
I know we gotta vote with our hearts. But what a waste
 

spx54

Member
Mar 21, 2019
3,273
Did you forget it is that why you're confused? Did you forget? Spx54 forgot.

yeah Castro was a bit of a dick. still didn't deserve the media pile on. Gotta respect the hustle, he knows this isn't a game.

a bunch of fact checkers said Castro was in the wrong, but I've rewatched it a few times and it seems like he was right, but idk.....very confusing exchange over what amounts to a technicality
 

JustinP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,343
The debates really don't need to cover healthcare again. It's all pointless there.

More questions on trade and the economy....
The moderators work for tv channels that want ratings and as long as they think healthcare is where the spicy back and forths are going to be found, they're going to keep trying to create drama on healthcare.
 

MetalGearZed

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,927
We've had three debates that were largely focused on healthcare and I still don't really know exactly why full M4A is supposed to be better than a public option. Particularly, why is it better enough to worth the electability risk. Why is it important for people to not have the option etc? I would like to this answered a lot more from Warren in the future, if this is going to be her position in the GE.

I'm not really strongly for or against either plan on merit, but I do want to hear why doing/running on M4A is so important since it's clearly the less popular plan. For example: Why is better than Pete's plan which, theoretically, gets us to the same place over time, building off of the public option?
 
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shinra-bansho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,964
We've had three debates that were largely focused on healthcare and I still don't really know exactly why full M4A is supposed to be better than a public option. Particularly, why is it better enough to worth the electability risk. Why is it important for people to not have the option etc? I would like to this answered a lot more from Warren in the future, if this is going to be her position in the GE.

I'm not really strongly for or against either plan on merit, but I do want to hear why doing/running on M4A is so important since it's clearly the less popular plan. For example: Why is better than Pete's plan which, theoretically, gets us to the same place over time, building off of the public option?
Medicare for All is just a brand that people put whatever meaning they want onto lbr.

In terms of what Sanders is proposing in his Bill, it would dramatically expand Medicare from its current coverage to things it doesn't cover, eliminate copays and deductibles, and institute an income based premium. Hospitals would still be reimbursed but instead by Medicare, I don't know if this would be at current or higher rates. As part of this he would bar private insurance for equivalent services.

The House bill goes further and rather than per item reimbursement, it would use global budgets.

It's plausible to expand Medicare coverage and still allow private competition for elective medical procedures. But that would be different to a public option as well. That is basically Harris' plan.

This is a bit of a primer on a public option.

The debates are really a terrible format to cover the complexity.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Economically illiterate? What do you expect the price mechanism to achieve in a crowded city - spur people to build more housing to meet demand? That only works if your city is allowing for new construction. Otherwise it's just a, well... rent, that landlords can extract. There's no economic activity there, there's no incentive to build or grow or innovate, there's just a fixed economic pie and arguments over who should get the biggest slice. I'm fine with that being tenants, even if getting rid of NIMBYs is my number one solution.
Yes, he is economically illiterate. Want more housing available at cheaper prices? You. Build. More. Fucking. Housing.

Rent control DECREASES THE AMOUNT OF AVAILABLE HOUSING. This is not some right-wing conspiratorial view, it is literally the outcome of the policy that both the economic theory predicts and that literally study after study finds happening in the real world!

What Rent Control does is subsidize existing residents at the expense of literally everyone else, which includes anyone who ever wants to move there in the future. It is not a solution to anything, it's a self-inflicted septic wound. There are all sorts of renter protections that you can implement that aren't that.
Have a better idea, I'd love to hear it.
Don't fucking do Rent Control. That's already a better idea. It's not on me to make Bernie's policy for him when he's outsourcing it to lefties who think there's some imaginary surplus of housing the evil landlords and foreigners are keeping out of the hands of the proletariat.

Don't believe me?

Here's a survey of economists on the topic: http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/rent-control

Here's the notably right-wing Brookings on the topic: https://www.brookings.edu/research/...ce-tell-us-about-the-effects-of-rent-control/

You should both read the Brookings piece. It goes into great detail in how the negative side effects end up massively destructive relative to the subsidized minority in the rent controlled housing.

Here's the conclusion:

Rent control appears to help affordability in the short run for current tenants, but in the long-run decreases affordability, fuels gentrification, and creates negative externalities on the surrounding neighborhood. These results highlight that forcing landlords to provide insurance to tenants against rent increases can ultimately be counterproductive. If society desires to provide social insurance against rent increases, it may be less distortionary to offer this subsidy in the form of a government subsidy or tax credit. This would remove landlords' incentives to decrease the housing supply and could provide households with the insurance they desire. A point of future research would be to design an optimal social insurance program to insure renters against large rent increases.
 
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cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
23,807


Renato Mariotti @renato_mariotti

It would violate the First Amendment for the Justice Department to try to stop newspapers from publishing articles on any topic.
Brett Kavanaugh should start suing people for liable, or the Justice Department should come to his rescue. The lies being told about him are unbelievable. False Accusations without recrimination. When does it stop? They are trying to influence his opinions. Can't let that happen!​
9:09 AM - Sep 15, 2019




southpaw@nycsouthpaw

The problem w quote-tweeting this deeply authoritarian assault on press freedom is that it contains an embarrassing typo—"liable" rather than "libel." That means when Dan Scavino wakes up and sufficiently clears his head, he's going to delete it and repost a cleaned up version.

XE9SmEG.jpg


9:23 AM - Sep 15, 2019
 
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Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
yeah Castro was a bit of a dick. still didn't deserve the media pile on. Gotta respect the hustle, he knows this isn't a game.

a bunch of fact checkers said Castro was in the wrong, but I've rewatched it a few times and it seems like he was right, but idk.....very confusing exchange over what amounts to a technicality

ShouldHaveGoneForTheHead.gif
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,509


lol, Didn't he make a big deal about not worrying about what Republicans will think back in July? Why's he acting like a worm?
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459


lol, Didn't he make a big deal about not worrying about what Republicans will think back in July? Why's he acting like a worm?


No idea but he's right about the GOP. They're going to make Beto the AOC-SOCIALISM of gun-grabbing. Everyone who stood on stage with him is coming for granny's blunderbuss.

Cold dead hands election. Even if every single dem disavows his statements - that will be the narrative. Black helicopters coming to take away .22s and Swiss ARMY knives.

I'm glad he said something and that we're finally having the right conversation but it will be a net drag. I'll bet my account on it.
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,509
Yeah, maybe, but the main people who seem terrified about it are NeverTrumpers. At this point, mandatory buybacks are beating M4All ("no private option" made explicit) and Decriminalizing Illegal Border crossing in polling across all parties. And impeachment. It's climbed ten points in a month. Gun control has even been polled as the dem top issue, beating healthcare and climate. I think the issue should be pushed.

 

Ithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,366
No idea but he's right about the GOP. They're going to make Beto the AOC-SOCIALISM of gun-grabbing. Everyone who stood on stage with him is coming for granny's blunderbuss.

Cold dead hands election. Even if every single dem disavows his statements - that will be the narrative. Black helicopters coming to take away .22s and Swiss ARMY knives.

I'm glad he said something and that we're finally having the right conversation but it will be a net drag. I'll bet my account on it.
You say this like they don't go "SOCIALIST COASTAL ELITE GUN GRABBING SOCIALIST" about every Dem candidate of every race.
 

Tamanon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,720
Meh... there's a difference between them saying it, and them playing a clip of Beto saying it. Either way, it probably helped his national profile a bit more, but killed his VP chances.
 

shinra-bansho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,964
How. The. Fuck. Is this still the state of public opinion in the US?
Are you for or against a law which would make it illegal to manufacture, sell or possess semi-automatic guns known as assault rifles?
2018 Oct 1-10 For 40% Against 57%
So weird.
Please tell me whether you favor or oppose each of the following approaches to prevent mass shootings at schools.
Having teachers or other school officials with appropriate training carry guns at school 42% For
??? Half your country is pretty much irredeemably abhorrent.
 
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