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US PoliEra 2019 |OT7| It's happening

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Autodidact

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,729
Kennedy supports ending the filibuster but still seems worse than Markey on some issues.

I like the idea of Warren resigning if she gets the nomination, Baker appointing some random GOP tool for a few months because it truly won't matter this Congress, and the special election coinciding with the 2020 general. We have a 99% chance of holding the seat (or, rather, flipping it from Baker's appointee), but the Kennedy name could provide a little extra insurance in that scenario.
 
patientzero

patientzero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,729
Royalan said:
But, really, who knows what kind of shady meetings the President has taken in the past. This might be more normal than we think.
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Granted, this comes with caveats - 1) it was 1997 and thus we weren't actively in military opposition to them, which ties into 2) it was pre-9/11, and 3) Bush wasn't President. But -



A senior delegation from the Taleban movement in Afghanistan is in the United States for talks with an international energy company that wants to construct a gas pipeline from Turkmenistan across Afghanistan to Pakistan.

A spokesman for the company, Unocal, said the Taleban were expected to spend several days at the company's headquarters in Sugarland, Texas.

Unocal says it has agreements both with Turkmenistan to sell its gas and with Pakistan to buy it.
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shinra-bansho

shinra-bansho

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Oct 25, 2017
3,964
merlin_160349070_257b1e7d-fa26-4a80-a1a4-4803e5499e4a-superJumbo.jpg

Lol, letting Biden get photographed in front of signs about ending Alzheimer's....
 
adam387

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,215
So, the thing that worries me about the Harris thing (ignore the fact its disgusting and she's straight up lying...) is how BAD her political instincts seem to be. Like, let's say she heard it and didnt think it was a big deal. That's really bad. But, her hearing it, knowing its a big deal, laughing about it, pretending it's okay until she gets called out, then kinda wiggling around and pretending she didn't hear it...its like the worst possible way to deal with it. Her second debate performance raised a whole bunch of questions for me in her inability to rebuttal fucking Tulsi (whether or not it was in good faith is kinda irrelevant to the point). She's maybe just not great at politics. I think we need someone a bit more adaptable on her feet to deal with the shit Trump throws around.

I also super hate the whole line of critique against candidates that they seem overly rehearsed and guarded, because it's typically used against women to explain one's latent sexism. But with Harris...man, it's like she's so careful with every word that she hasn't had focus tested to hell and back. That's important for a prosecutor...but idk how well that plays with the electorate. Just comes off as really off putting. (I also think Butti comes off as rehearsed too for what it's worth...just not in the same way.)
 
spx54

spx54

Member
Mar 21, 2019
3,273
maybe Kamala should stay in the Senate and continue interrogating Trump lackeys. Seems like the only thing she's good at.
 
B-Dubs

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
33,044
Royalan said:
She heard it.

She'd have saved herself a lot of grief with just the apology. This "always hedge your bets with an excuse" is the worst politicianism.
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I hate that shit. Just own up when you were wrong. Don't hedge, don't try and find a way out. Just admit it and apologize.
 
Linkura

Linkura

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Oct 25, 2017
19,943
Kusagari said:
Kennedy clearly has tried to make himself look like a progressive darling over the past year, probably because he's been planning this for a while, but I still don't trust him at all.
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Fucking bingo.

I'd bet money he only changed his stance on marijuana in the past year because he's trying to position himself as a younger progressive to replace THE OLDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD Markey.
 
Plinko

Plinko

Member
Oct 28, 2017
18,616
I dont get the Kennedy bashing for changing a view. I know several people who have changed their views on legalization over the past year after they saw how states that legalized didn't really have any major issues.
 
TheHunter

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774
Linkura said:
Fucking bingo.

I'd bet money he only changed his stance on marijuana in the past year because he's trying to position himself as a younger progressive to replace THE OLDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD Markey.
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To be fair, if he really does become more progressive and has name recognition is that a bad thing?

Just playing devil advocate here. I'm not a fan of yet another Kennedy steam rolling a good blue incumbent for shits and giggles.

edit
what plinko's getting at. Obama changed his views on gay marriage; Kennedy could be becoming more progressive.
 
Linkura

Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,943
TheHunter said:
To be fair, if he really does become more progressive and has name recognition is that a bad thing?

Just playing devil advocate here. I'm not a fan of yet another Kennedy steam rolling a good blue incumbent for shits and giggles.

edit
what plinko's getting at. Obama changed his views on gay marriage; Kennedy could be becoming more progressive.
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Right, it's not inherently a bad thing for him to espouse more progressive views. It's his motives for doing so that bother me.

I'd totally be fine with him replacing a President Forma. I just think it's bullshit he's trying to take advantage of Markey's age to try to get a Senate seat a few years earlier than he would have.
 
shinra-bansho

shinra-bansho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,964
Wow, Harris stans are capable of criticising their favoured candidate.
Mariah stans can criticise the Queen too.

Now I'm curious how a thread on the use of the N-word would go. lol
 
Drakeon

Drakeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,322
Harris is bad not great at this running for President thing guys. She's also not ready for a general election against Trump.
 
Royalan

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
12,121
B-Dubs said:
I hate that shit. Just own up when you were wrong. Don't hedge, don't try and find a way out. Just admit it and apologize.
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The thing with her right now, in regards to this, everything she said about this incident other than that has been fine, and what I'd like to see from more politicians when they misfire. She's been pretty full-throated in condemning the use of that word all day. Which is why I haven't had much of an opinion.

It's super fucking disappointing that she didn't correct that guy in the moment. But it's also kind of...human? I know from having many contentious conversations in real life that l'esprit d'escalier is a very real thing. And nothing in her record or in any past interview she's given leads me to believe that she wouldn't understand how backwards and unhelpful that word is. I think she was hit with this moment, couldn't respond to it, and just kept going.

So, like...just say that? I don't understand how her campaign hasn't realized that talking around a thing has almost never worked for them.
 
adam387

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,215
shinra-bansho said:
Now I'm curious how a thread on the use of the N-word would go. lol
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Really? I think we can all map that out pretty easily in our heads.

I've said this before, but I was just talking with my husband and the thing that has surprised me the most so far is how .... good Warren is at this. Like, I knew she was insanely intelligent. I knew she was good at the policy side of things. I didn't know she was as good at retail politics as she has been. She actually seems to really enjoy it, and I think that's a big thing. Like, I adore Hillary, but I think we all know she didn't love campaigning. I would hate campaigning. Having to touch all the common people with their diseases and germs and poverty. So that's been my biggest surprise. Its one of the reasons I'm stanning.

Also my husband let me put a Warren bumper sticker on our one of our vans. So, it's a pretty good day.
 
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The Chosen One

The Chosen One

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,881
I'm not going to defend what Kamala did or how she responded. But I'm still sticking by her, hoping she'll learn and grow from it.

Everybody here, and I mean everyone, canceled Warren after he DNA debacle. Her instincts were completely horrendous and she insulted Native Americans in the process. But now after 6 months of solid campaigning, just about everyone here thinks Warren walks on water and make every excuse in the book to excuse how terrible she handled-DNA-gate. Warren still hasn't proven she has the instincts to go toe-to-toe with Trump in a street fight, but obviously no one really seems to care about that right now since she's the flavor of the month. Harris can move past this if she learns from it, so I'm not "canceling" her over this. I despise the whole "cancel" culture anyway. Everybody here was screaming for Beto to quit back in April but I'm glad he's stayed in even if he won't win the nomination. Originally he was very wooden and over-prepped, but now he's brought a passion and fire about current flash points that's been missing from the rest of the field.

It's a looong campaign. Give the candidates time to learn, grow, and find their footing. The ones that don't will run out of money and drop out eventually anyway. That could happen to Kamala, but there's also a chance it doesn't. She's sitting at #4 with Biden looking very shaky lately. There could be a major reshuffle in the race within the next two months and who knows what can happen then.
 
Kusagari

Kusagari

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,606
Plinko said:
I dont get the Kennedy bashing for changing a view. I know several people who have changed their views on legalization over the past year after they saw how states that legalized didn't really have any major issues.
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Because his view was that it should be illegal so cops would have an easier time searching peoples cars.

It's such an abhorrent and shitty take that it makes me not trust him on anything.
 
spx54

spx54

Member
Mar 21, 2019
3,273
The Chosen One said:
I'm not going to defend what Kamala did or how she responded. But I'm still sticking by her, hoping she'll learn and grow from it.

Everybody here, and I mean everyone, canceled Warren after he DNA debacle. Her instincts were completely horrendous and she insulted Native Americans in the process. But now after 6 months of solid campaigning, just about everyone here thinks Warren walks on water and make every excuse in the book to excuse how terrible she handled-DNA-gate. Warren still hasn't proven she has the instincts to go toe-to-toe with Trump in a street fight, but obviously no one really seems to care about that right now since she's the flavor of the month. Harris can move past this if she learns from it, so I'm not "canceling" her over this. I despise the whole "cancel" culture anyway. Everybody here was screaming for Beto to quit back in April but I'm glad he's stayed in even if he won't win the nomination. Originally he was very wooden and over-prepped, but now he's brought a passion and fire about current flash points that's been missing from the rest of the field.

It's a looong campaign. Give the candidates time to learn, grow, and find their footing. The ones that don't will run out of money and drop out eventually anyway. That could happen to Kamala, but there's also a chance it doesn't. She's sitting at #4 with Biden looking very shaky lately. There could be a major reshuffle in the race within the next two months and who knows what can happen then.
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Idk how you can call her "flavor of the month" when shes been steadily increasing her polling numbers since like April
 
LegendofJoe

LegendofJoe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,101
Arkansas, USA
I saw Hamilton today, it was fantastic. The way it came together at the end and the music, wow it was good. I want to see it again, but it'll be a bit because tickets aren't cheap.

I also had no idea that Eliza Hamilton lived to be 97, that was a cool bit of trivia knowledge.
 
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Deleted member 176

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Oct 25, 2017
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Warren was unfortunately a victim of cancel culture, which is real, so she had to drop out immediately from the race
 
Royalan

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
12,121
adam387 said:
I've said this before, but I was just talking with my husband and the thing that has surprised me the most so far is how .... good Warren is at this. Like, I knew she was insanely intelligent. I knew she was good at the policy side of things. I didn't know she was as good at retail politics as she has been. She actually seems to really enjoy it, and I think that's a big thing. Like, I adore Hillary, but I think we all know she didn't love campaigning. I would hate campaigning. Having to touch all the common people with their diseases and germs and poverty. So that's been my biggest surprise. Its one of the reasons I'm stanning.
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I'm also impressed with how good Warren is at this. That said...I'm not ready to put her at a Hillary level yet because...she hasn't really been attacked yet? Trump is too busy drawing on weather maps to do anything more than throw out a "Pocahontas" tweet every now and then; and even when more moderate Dems go after her it's more her (and Bernie's) ideas and general attacks of "Socialism" than her specifically. Like, I'm a Warren fan, but it's for that reason that I"m really waiting for someone to really go after her to test how battle ready she is in the event she wins.

Contrast that with Hillary, whose strength really was in her resiliency through the torrent of bombs thrown at her. Some, sadly, from her own party.
 
Autodidact

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,729
I coined "tactical self-nuke" and will not apologize; it's hilarious.

But I was wrong about her, have admitted it, and support her fully now.
 
The Chosen One

The Chosen One

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,881
Royalan said:
The thing with her right now, in regards to this, everything she said about this incident other than that has been fine, and what I'd like to see from more politicians when they misfire. She's been pretty full-throated in condemning the use of that word all day. Which is why I haven't had much of an opinion.

It's super fucking disappointing that she didn't correct that guy in the moment. But it's also kind of...human? I know from having many contentious conversations in real life that l'esprit d'escalier is a very real thing. And nothing in her record or in any past interview she's given leads me to believe that she wouldn't understand how backwards and unhelpful that word is. I think she was hit with this moment, couldn't respond to it, and just kept going.

So, like...just say that? I don't understand how her campaign hasn't realized that talking around a thing has almost never worked for them.
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I agree with this. Similarly, Beto being a newb on the national stage outside of Texas, it seems his staff wanted to limit any gaffes or mistakes, so initially Beto wouldn't answer direct questions in interviews, he kept going to rehearsed stump speeches and anecdotes. Maybe the anecdotes are Beto's own tick, but it's the staff's job to minimize the candidate's weaknesses and maximize their strengths. I think over the summer Beto' and his staff finally found a working formula for him and he's become a more attractive candidate and he's at least now back in the VP race.

With this incident with Harris, I lay a large blame on the staff on the followup response. By now the staff should know it's much better to just own up to mistakes and apologize. That's what they should have strongly advised the candidate. But instead someone high up in the staff thought it was a good idea for her to pretend she didn't hear it. That's a staffing issue. I'm guessing because there's been a decent amount of "RIP Harris" articles/stories in the news lately, the staff is so worried about making mistakes where she could drop further in the polls. But when you're sliding in the polls, the answer is to be more authentic, not more politic. The staff should know this and that's what they get paid for.

That said, I don't see how this flub reflects on going head-to-head with Trump in any way. Do you think Trump would have handled this situation better? No. The gaffe with this was that Harris didn't seize the moment in real-time with the crowd and she gave a Trumpian response afterward. That's going to turn off progressives, but that doesn't really reflect going head to head with Trump. Whereas Warren literally was going head to head with Trump in a street fight and she lost - badly. Got dunked on for months. The jury is still out on Harris. On one hand she's snatched Biden's soul and many old white men in judiciary hearings, but she got blindsided by Tulsi. I think Harris has a good attack game, but needs to work on defense.
 
adam387

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,215
Royalan said:
I'm also impressed with how good Warren is at this. That said...I'm not ready to put her at a Hillary level yet because...she hasn't really been attacked yet? Trump is too busy drawing on weather maps to do anything more than throw out a "Pocahontas" tweet every now and then; and even when more moderate Dems go after her it's more her (and Bernie's) ideas and general attacks of "Socialism" than her specifically. Like, I'm a Warren fan, but it's for that reason that I"m really waiting for someone to really go after her to test how battle ready she is in the event she wins.

Contrast that with Hillary, whose strength really was in her resiliency through the torrent of bombs thrown at her. Some, sadly, from her own party.
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Ya, I would like to see her attacked and see how she responds. She's pushing the she's a fighter thing....I want some proof of that. But the whole dealing with people, making connections, reaching out to party folks...she's really good at that and I"m here for it.
 
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