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US PoliEra 2019 |OT7| It's happening
- Thread starter Ogodei
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Good analysis. Sanders (and Warren as well) need to continue to present their cases in the coming debates. Their goal is to change as many moderate and undecided voter minds as they can. Sanders and Warren forming a proper alliance in the primary hints that they're mindful of the fact that their positions are still not overly-popular, and that it's going to be an uphill battle against the likes of Biden.
I apologize if this is long but I have been lurking in this thread and wanted to give my $.02 on this insurance debate.
My brother is a doctor in Columbus and works at a city hospital. We had a conversation about single payer health care this past Christmas and he told me that most of the doctors that he works with are in favor of scrapping our current system and going to a single payer system. One of the reasons he said he was in favor of it was that a lot of patients do not have the money to pay their out of pocket costs so they end up not getting paid that amount. He also struggles with patients not being able to afford treatment and therefore they choose to not receive the treatment they need.
IMO and my experience private insurance sucks ass. I do not like the fact that there is a middle man, whose main objective is to make money off of sick people, in between me and my health care.. If we want to keep private insurance why cant we make it non profit? I also will never understand why some people defend our system because they like the idea of not having to share a room with a poor person, or because they are richer or have better insurance then myself they are able to receive better care then me. One of my coworkers actually said he would be in favor of M4A as long as Lebron James was able to go to the best doctors and get better care because he had the money to pay for it.
Our insurance system has failed me numerous times.
On vacation a few years ago three states away I had to take my son to a stat care. Insurance denied coverage out of network. While out on medical leave last year I had to continue to make premium payments to keep my insurance or upon returning to work would have to wait 3 months to get it back as they would have to treat me as a new hire. As a divorced father of two, I live paycheck to paycheck when I get all of my paycheck let alone when I am getting 60% on short term disability. Also when finding out I needed to have surgery I was required to use a service that would check all of the area surgeons and find the best rate. If I didn't go with their choice I would have to pay a penalty. That means I would probably not gotten the Doctor I wanted. i ended up going with my Doctor. Two weeks after returning to work after six weeks of recovery, they called and told me that they were still looking for the cheapest doctor.
I understand that yes my company's insurance sucks but it's not like I can just up and leave my job either. I interviewed at two companies this year that had much better insurance plans. The first was a 4 day on 3 day off 12 hour job that also rotated shifts every month between days and midnight's. That wouldn't work with my visitation with my kids. The second was a 45 minute commute and was $2 less an hour.
American's health care should not and never should have been tied to employment. It's actually kind of ridiculous. Why can't my company negotiate the same insurance rates and coverage as other employers. I would rather my employer pay me the money from that "benefit" in a higher pay rate and I would gladly pay the payroll tax for a state run system where I know my money is going to help myself and others in need. I would feel better about that instead of lining the pocket of some insurance company CEO.
BTW nobody i know loves their private insurance. Nobody!!! They just accept it and that really pisses me off as we should not just accept the way things are because that's the way they are.
Basically I believe that everyone should get equal access to good quality healthcare regardless of their standing in life or the negotiating prowess of their employers. Do we all not deserve a chance to live healthy and happy lives. Rich people are already able to go to better schools, buy more expensive vehicles, and live in nicer neighborhoods in bigger and better houses. So if they have to pay more then me for a universal plan I am not going to loose sleep over it.
My brother is a doctor in Columbus and works at a city hospital. We had a conversation about single payer health care this past Christmas and he told me that most of the doctors that he works with are in favor of scrapping our current system and going to a single payer system. One of the reasons he said he was in favor of it was that a lot of patients do not have the money to pay their out of pocket costs so they end up not getting paid that amount. He also struggles with patients not being able to afford treatment and therefore they choose to not receive the treatment they need.
IMO and my experience private insurance sucks ass. I do not like the fact that there is a middle man, whose main objective is to make money off of sick people, in between me and my health care.. If we want to keep private insurance why cant we make it non profit? I also will never understand why some people defend our system because they like the idea of not having to share a room with a poor person, or because they are richer or have better insurance then myself they are able to receive better care then me. One of my coworkers actually said he would be in favor of M4A as long as Lebron James was able to go to the best doctors and get better care because he had the money to pay for it.
Our insurance system has failed me numerous times.
On vacation a few years ago three states away I had to take my son to a stat care. Insurance denied coverage out of network. While out on medical leave last year I had to continue to make premium payments to keep my insurance or upon returning to work would have to wait 3 months to get it back as they would have to treat me as a new hire. As a divorced father of two, I live paycheck to paycheck when I get all of my paycheck let alone when I am getting 60% on short term disability. Also when finding out I needed to have surgery I was required to use a service that would check all of the area surgeons and find the best rate. If I didn't go with their choice I would have to pay a penalty. That means I would probably not gotten the Doctor I wanted. i ended up going with my Doctor. Two weeks after returning to work after six weeks of recovery, they called and told me that they were still looking for the cheapest doctor.
I understand that yes my company's insurance sucks but it's not like I can just up and leave my job either. I interviewed at two companies this year that had much better insurance plans. The first was a 4 day on 3 day off 12 hour job that also rotated shifts every month between days and midnight's. That wouldn't work with my visitation with my kids. The second was a 45 minute commute and was $2 less an hour.
American's health care should not and never should have been tied to employment. It's actually kind of ridiculous. Why can't my company negotiate the same insurance rates and coverage as other employers. I would rather my employer pay me the money from that "benefit" in a higher pay rate and I would gladly pay the payroll tax for a state run system where I know my money is going to help myself and others in need. I would feel better about that instead of lining the pocket of some insurance company CEO.
BTW nobody i know loves their private insurance. Nobody!!! They just accept it and that really pisses me off as we should not just accept the way things are because that's the way they are.
Basically I believe that everyone should get equal access to good quality healthcare regardless of their standing in life or the negotiating prowess of their employers. Do we all not deserve a chance to live healthy and happy lives. Rich people are already able to go to better schools, buy more expensive vehicles, and live in nicer neighborhoods in bigger and better houses. So if they have to pay more then me for a universal plan I am not going to loose sleep over it.
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the liberal cowardice of not screening battleship potemkin...
So I was thinking today about the utter uselessness of debates when it comes to expressing complex progressive ideas to the masses, when i looked up and realized this was playing in the background:
And I seriously wondered why this format hasn't really been considered with politics.
If you don't know Hollywood Reporter's Roundtable serious, it's basically a group of actors sitting around a table interviewing each other and discussing issues in Hollywood and their acting process. Sometimes there's a little back-and-forth, but that really isn't the point.
They're actually really informative, if you're into that sort of thing.
And I seriously wondered why this format hasn't really been considered with politics.
If you don't know Hollywood Reporter's Roundtable serious, it's basically a group of actors sitting around a table interviewing each other and discussing issues in Hollywood and their acting process. Sometimes there's a little back-and-forth, but that really isn't the point.
They're actually really informative, if you're into that sort of thing.
I'm having enough trouble getting people to watch movies in English and with sound...
I mean if you wanna dip toast into milk be my guest fam!
That's kiiiinda what French toast is (but it's like custard instead of milk idk I'm not a chef man)
Many a displaced silent movie star expressed this sentiment.
More-or-less like a podcast environment. I know Joe Rogan is an unpopular person on Era, but his free floating thought format on his podcasts would be great for, say, a group of politicians getting together to exchange ideas and their personal stances. Not even having a moderator or host of a show. I'd rather it just be the politicians sitting at a table and talking casually about the issues.
Sis, tell us about the first time you saw a talkie. I love hearing about the old days.
I think the issue stems from mainly the fact many people here hear Bernie and instantly think of douchebro memes instead of the actual message at times. Sometimes that's personal bias or miscommunication and other times that's just personalities and egos at work.
I still have trouble breaking through on climate action. That said; Bernie fans have to realize that there's a difference between wanting that socialist revolution (Democratically or otherwise) and wanting to get a better tomorrow. I tried getting at that in the socialism thread but if Warren is the nominee I do wonder how many of them will vote for her.
If you can't even vote for a far left liberal who is sympathetic to your cause you aren't much of an ally. Thus judgement right or wrong will be cast on those who side with or belong to said groups since they were selfish as to just sideline themselves because their saint wasn't nominated.
It's not the format of the show people object to, it's that he has on a variety of guests, including a lot of alt-right or adjacent shitbags, and doesn't challenge them because he's either an idiot or tacitly agrees with some of their thoughts.
Yeah I know. His positions are very inconsistent, and he gives mixed signals in what he believes in.
This is the guy who was Bill Brady's running mate in 2010 governor's race and lost to Bill Enyart in 2012, he's a real asshole who plays with his daddy's money, who's also very rude to his constituents, and insulted some of my friends on his FB for being against his fucked up ideas who's all in on the idead that Illinois should seperate itself from Cook County which will never happen. Also lol Erika Harold would've been eaten alive in the district.
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Picture it, 1928. I'd just come from a meeting with my sewing circle, the precursor to political discussion forums. I remember feeling angry because some ignorant douche had said, "Smith and Hoover are both the same. I'm writing in Lindbergh." He always criticized us for being hostile but kept coming back - probably because the Gloria Swanson impersonator whose parlor we used had the best bathtub moonshine.
Anyway, I got some apple pie at the automat and caught a late showing of The Jazz Singer. I found it problematic, although that word hadn't been coined. I imagine Northam's grandparents adored it.
Thanks for posting. I'm glad to see that the doctors your brother knows are mostly in favor of change. I think it's misleading when it's presented that people like their insurance. I think what's really being said is people like the security of knowing that if something happens tomorrow then they'll be OK, hopefully without too much out of pocket cost. I also think people forget they're paying a significant amount for that employer healthcare, on average about $6K I think (not going to look up the exact figure for now), which is about 10% of the median household income. Sure, employees won't instantly get that as a pay increase if they can opt into a public plan, but I do think wages would go up some as employers who are now able to compensate more do so to attract and retain good staff.
For those that don't live here and can't fathom how deep-seeded the culture of guns is to the state:
Yes, it's fucking gross.
Also a reminder, open carry is permitted on UT campus.
Yes, it's fucking gross.
Also a reminder, open carry is permitted on UT campus.
Such leadership. Nothing followed.
Just briefed by Attorney General Barr about the shootings in Texas. FBI and Law Enforcement is fully engaged. More to follow.
5:35 PM · Aug 31, 2019
Just briefed by Attorney General Barr about the shootings in Texas. FBI and Law Enforcement is fully engaged. More to follow.
5:35 PM · Aug 31, 2019
I am a doctor and I have never met a patient who was happy with their health insurance. It's not even being happy or satisfied in the traditional sense... it's usually "I am so glad I have a stable health insurance from my employer that is way better than what most reasonable people are able to get". It's all relative... your horse shit is slightly better than your neighbor's dog shit so that makes you feel better. You don't really have a sense what could be because this is just normal... you are just expected to pay a truck load for medical care and dealing with insurances is just a day to day thing. The only people happy with private health insurances.. are private heath insurances.
A lot of patients I get can't afford non-generic prescriptions and can't afford costs for operation. Have had an elderly woman who has refused my referrals for her knee as she can't afford the treatment/operation for it (she is just outside of medicare range as well in terms of age). There are numerous cases of it and yes Insulin rationing is a thing (though not as extreme as Sanders makes it out because we have more sophisticated technology than just raw Insulin injections through vials these days). I am constantly giving out medical samples daily to people I know who can't afford them otherwise.
As far as other doctors I have talked to about this issue... almost everyone agrees that the current system is fucked and that at the bare minimum every citizen should have access to SOME basic level of medical coverage. Many aren't too keen on single player system or complete abolishing of private health insurance. A lot of them are concerned about huge wage/salary cuts if a new system gets put in place though I personally don't know how the math will work out with a Medical For All system. It honestly can't be too bad because it's not doctors in other countries are strapped for cash... average salary of a doctor in Canada is still like $250K. Some are also concerned about specialist waiting hours in a new system, certainly in Canada it can take weeks to months to get an MRI for example.
A lot of patients I get can't afford non-generic prescriptions and can't afford costs for operation. Have had an elderly woman who has refused my referrals for her knee as she can't afford the treatment/operation for it (she is just outside of medicare range as well in terms of age). There are numerous cases of it and yes Insulin rationing is a thing (though not as extreme as Sanders makes it out because we have more sophisticated technology than just raw Insulin injections through vials these days). I am constantly giving out medical samples daily to people I know who can't afford them otherwise.
As far as other doctors I have talked to about this issue... almost everyone agrees that the current system is fucked and that at the bare minimum every citizen should have access to SOME basic level of medical coverage. Many aren't too keen on single player system or complete abolishing of private health insurance. A lot of them are concerned about huge wage/salary cuts if a new system gets put in place though I personally don't know how the math will work out with a Medical For All system. It honestly can't be too bad because it's not doctors in other countries are strapped for cash... average salary of a doctor in Canada is still like $250K. Some are also concerned about specialist waiting hours in a new system, certainly in Canada it can take weeks to months to get an MRI for example.
I don't even know what the last pages of re-litigating 2016 were actually about, lol.
I mean you can see how well Bernie Sanders does in a more crowded field, because he's in one right now, and his support is either stagnant or dropping, despite significant built advantages from four years ago.
Compared to four years ago, he, Biden and to a lesser extent Warren are in the Hillary Clinton position now.
If Biden didn't enter the race support would have probably coalesced around one of the other random white moderate men.
I mean you can see how well Bernie Sanders does in a more crowded field, because he's in one right now, and his support is either stagnant or dropping, despite significant built advantages from four years ago.
Compared to four years ago, he, Biden and to a lesser extent Warren are in the Hillary Clinton position now.
If Biden didn't enter the race support would have probably coalesced around one of the other random white moderate men.
Wasn't Jan the one with the persecution complex? Who does that remind me of. 🤔
Lol, I only just watched the clip. It was weird/funny when Sanders asked the questioner if his $500 deductible was for the month, before handwaving him away.
In real-life every system has trade-offs. I mean the current US system results in some people having high quality healthcare, probably to the extent of being over-treated, while others have none. And that I would assume is an unacceptable trade-off for everyone here.
I think there seems to be an unwillingness to concede there may be trade-offs under the version of the Medicare for All system proposed.
It seems like the only people happy with the current system are people that work in the insurance industry. We live in the richest economy in the history of the world but so many people die because their gofundme didnt go viral. It's time for change. Nobody should have to die or refuse treatment because they cant afford it. There is no reason why this country cant afford it. One less aircraft carrier would help so many people. Lets put our resources into our best commodity, the people of the country.
I am sick and tired of hearing it wont work and that we need to keep private insurance because people like it. That is bull shit and we all know it.
Polling shows it's not bullshit.
You will need to convince people otherwise, or you won't win the election.
People like it more than the alternative because the current government alternatives are often worse benefit-wise and there's no guarantee of parity with a new system. Unions aren't pushing back on Bernie's proposals just to be dicks.
People dont understand the benefits of a single payer system. They just hear you will lose your insurance and they don't like it. Once they understand that it will be replaced with a better system public opinion will change. Thats the overall problem with our electorate, people just don't understand what single payer vs private insurance would do to improve the overall quality of life to all americans. I am sure there was resistance to medicare back in the day but I am also sure that it is pretty popular today. i think that the average american, people like me, would rather help other people then help an insurance exec buy a new yacht.
People are afraid of the unknown. If they have a system where they only pay their premiums in the form of a tax and no out of pocket cost people will come around. It's a better system, and it will work. I said before and I will say it again, nobody should have to die because they cant afford treatment and i believe most Americans will agree. The days of gofundme healthcare are numbered.
From the Monmouth poll:
The alternative interpretation to people simultaneously wanting a public health insurance program while also wanting the ability to retain private insurance, is that the US as a society values this flexibility of choice.
Again, given the US is a nation of individualistic temporarily embarrassed millionaires, I imagine the idea of being able to pay more for some degree of superior care still resonates.
That wont be as hard as you think, most people I know are fed up with the current system. Insurance execs getting rich while people die I believe is not popular with most people.
No, they are afraid of the known here. They can directly compare current coverage to current examples of future coverage and find them wanting. This is where "just do the damn public option" becomes a good way of demonstrating that in the future in order to reduce resistance if the P.O. is successful in being legitimate competition to private insurance.
If it was easy Obamacare would have been popular from the start.
I cant stress enough that people dont understand what a single payer option would entail. You get the same coverage for less money for most american's.. you dont have to post a gofindme to pay medical bills. People dont to have decide if they want to stay alive or pay their bills. Nothing you say will convince me that our current system is better then giving every american quality health care regardless of social standing . Healthcare should be a right not a business.
To be fair making arguments for healthcare will be easier now that ACA has a foothold.
Box of Kittens
You still alive bro?
Fenderputty
You too fender? Haven't heard from either of you in awhile.
User banned (3 days): trolling
PoliEra's greatest hits:
-Is Single Payer good?
-2016 yall
-That dang Bernard
-lol joke candidates (ft. Delaney et al)
-Fuck Trump and his merry gang of fascists
-BidenGaf
-Is Single Payer good?
-2016 yall
-That dang Bernard
-lol joke candidates (ft. Delaney et al)
-Fuck Trump and his merry gang of fascists
-BidenGaf
So, like, hi. Okay. Lots here to unpack.
Let me start by saying, you have now met someone who likes their private health insurance. I like our coverage. I have zero interest whatsoever in switching my family's coverage. That is not based on me being uninformed. The idea that everyone who disagrees with a policy is somehow uninformed is a very bad way to try and win supporters. I am also an "average American" for whatever that's worth.
My family consumes, I would say, more healthcare than most folks. My oldest son has pediatric MS. He's on more medicine per day than I want to count. He takes weekly 2-4 hour infusion treatments that Medicare/Medicaid straight up DO NOT cover. Period. End of discussion. Two of his medicines are also not on the Medicare/Medicaid formulary because they are being used off label and are not cost effective. This year, we have had 4 MRIs, 2 CT scans, nerve conductions, more labs than you could possibly count. And guess what? My insurance (my private insurance) covered everything without an issue. We got the care when we needed it without waiting, when there was an issue with authorizations it was taken care of in a few hours. That doesn't even take into account the fact that I had a $150k back surgery. I had a zero out of pocket cost for the whole thing because we met our annual out of pocket maximum a long time ago. I had complications and we spent weeks going back and forth for specialized imaging (a test that is not covered by Medicare btw outside VERY, VERY specific circumstances.)
When you talk about "people just don't understand single payer" ... no, a lot of us understand it. What you're asking is for us to take a massive fucking gamble on our health, on our kids' health, on our parents health, on our grandparents health......when there are alternatives that can get us to the same place without throwing millions of folks' current care into freaking chaos. The idea that you can actually implement Bernie's plan with all these things, at a 4% payroll tax, without cutting services, without a delay in care...it's wrong. It's factually wrong. The numbers don't add up.
I am happy with our insurance. We see the doctors we need when we need. We have essentially no wait time for tests, providers, or labs. We have all of our medicines worked out with the insurance company, and our physicians actually work with the companies on a few things to lower costs for us.
You keep saying "people just don't understand" but maybe, just maybe, we actually DO understand....and we want a choice. It's pretty simple really. No one in America should die in the street or lack access to healthcare. That's absolutely true. However, the idea that we have to do this ONE VERY SPECIFIC THING or do absolutely nothing is a false dichotomy. If the public REALLY hates their private healthcare, and they REALLY want to give it up, and they REALLY want the government's plan....then offer a public option. If it's really so much better, people will flock to it. It's not that complicated.
Pretty popular now isn't it? Not with me though. It should have went farther. Americans deserve to live without fear that they will lose everything if an illness occurs and they can not afford it. So many sick americans lose their health coverage because they lose their jobs due to illness. Our system is fucked. Bottom line.
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It might surprise you to learn that virtually every individual Doctor's practice is a business.
The idea that "Business" = "Privately operated insurance" is laughable. The key is getting everyone insured and getting the insurance subsidized and regulated, regardless of who operates it.
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