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US PoliEra 2019 |OT7| It's happening

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Kirblar

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
plagiarize said:
I think there's a third way, and it's exactly what Schiff has laid out, which is you don't do all the things, but you do the other things that lend credibility to the Ukraine scandal, which I think is genuinely the worst of them all.

I think he basically put it like so.

1. Trump attempted to get Russia to provide him information on his opponent.
2. Trump obstructred justice over the investigation into whether or not he broke the law doing 1.
3. Trump attempted to get Ukraine to hurt the person who at the time was the leading candidate to be his opponent next year.
4. Trump and Barr (who was implicated in 3) conspired to prevent 3 from coming to light when a whistle-blower complaint threatened to blow the lid off the whole thing.
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Yeah, as evidence in going after aspects of the Ukraine thing? Absolutely use them as evidence, show the pattern of behavior, etc.

Just don't put them in the damn articles you're charging on or you're gonna have the scattershot problem all over again. You can just charge him later!
 
OP
OP
Ogodei

Ogodei

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,256
Coruscant
AnotherNils said:
EFZsMETX4AUuyi1
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I learned how to write IC memos in grad school and yes, you do want to attribute everything (typically just to your sourcing method, like HUMINT or SIGINT)
 
plagiarize

plagiarize

Eating crackers
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,511
Cape Cod, MA
Kirblar said:
Yeah, as evidence in going after aspects of the Ukraine thing? Absolutely use them as evidence, show the pattern of behavior, etc.

Just don't put them in the damn articles you're charging on or you're gonna have the scattershot problem all over again. You can just charge him later!
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Why not put the evidence Trump obstructed Justice into the articles? Why not include those charges? I mean it's already tied up with a bow, and it lends credence to the charges he should face with regards to trying to cover up the whistle-blower report.
 
Kirblar

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
plagiarize said:
Why not put the evidence Trump obstructed Justice into the articles? Why not include those charges? I mean it's already tied up with a bow, and it lends credence to the charges he should face with regards to trying to cover up the whistle-blower report.
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Because the public is dumb and full of terrors. "Keep It Simple Stupid" applies here- you have a potential knockout blow, just put everything into the single shot trying to leverage it against the GOP, rather than shotgunning it and risking some of the same issues that came up with Mueller's report.

On this note, we've got confirmation that Intelligence is now taking point on initiating impeachment over Judiciary. Which is good news if you think you want to limit the scope of the actual charges and also good news in general because Schiff>>>>>>>>Nadler when it comes to media.

 
Dahbomb

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,616
Russian interference is the start point of all this, Ukraine is the end point. They are interconnected in that it shows a pattern of collusion, obstruction, foreign interference, election tampering and inter agency cover up.

You have to realize that the Ukraine thing got as big as it did because there was already some pressure on Trump and people had both eyes on Trump. Everyone was just waiting for the next big Trump fuck up to add on top of the impeachment pile... but we got something better.
 
plagiarize

plagiarize

Eating crackers
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,511
Cape Cod, MA
Kirblar said:
Because the public is dumb and full of terrors. "Keep It Simple Stupid" applies here- you have a potential knockout blow, just put everything into the single shot trying to leverage it against the GOP, rather than shotgunning it and risking some of the same issues that came up with Mueller's report.

On this note, we've got confirmation that Intelligence is now taking point on initiating impeachment over Judiciary. Which is good news if you think you want to limit the scope of the actual charges and also good news in general because Schiff>>>>>>>>Nadler when it comes to media.

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Schiff should take point on this, since he's been on point since before it was even really a story.
 

Gotchaye

Member
Oct 27, 2017
694
The problem with shoving everything into articles of impeachment is that you make things a lot easier for people who want to defend Trump. They can pick the two or three least indefensible things to talk about and then assert that the rest is just as flimsy.
 
Sheepinator

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
27,956
Gotchaye said:
The problem with shoving everything into articles of impeachment is that you make things a lot easier for people who want to defend Trump. They can pick the two or three least indefensible things to talk about and then assert that the rest is just as flimsy.
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Those people will do that anyway. They're already trying that stuff: "not a whistleblower", "not in the room", "is a democrat", etc.

Aside from showing a pattern of obstruction, the earlier counts of obstruction are already very well researched but they never got a light shone on them. Add those to the list and those fabled "swing voters" (not the ones NYT interviews) will see this is not just a one-off thing.
 
VISION

VISION

Member
Oct 25, 2017
988
It's a nine page document I read in <10 minutes before work this morning.

How the fuck are you gonna say you ain't read it? I read it before work, but it's your actual job.
 
Killthee

Killthee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,169
Kirblar said:
Because the public is dumb and full of terrors. "Keep It Simple Stupid" applies here- you have a potential knockout blow, just put everything into the single shot trying to leverage it against the GOP, rather than shotgunning it and risking some of the same issues that came up with Mueller's report.

On this note, we've got confirmation that Intelligence is now taking point on initiating impeachment over Judiciary. Which is good news if you think you want to limit the scope of the actual charges and also good news in general because Schiff>>>>>>>>Nadler when it comes to media.

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Fantastic news. Nadler has shown hes completely unprepared for the optics and public theater of impeachment.
 
Royalan

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,943
plagiarize said:
I think there's a third way, and it's exactly what Schiff has laid out, which is you don't do all the things, but you do the other things that lend credibility to the Ukraine scandal, which I think is genuinely the worst of them all.

I think he basically put it like so.

1. Trump attempted to get Russia to provide him information on his opponent.
2. Trump obstructred justice over the investigation into whether or not he broke the law doing 1.
3. Trump attempted to get Ukraine to hurt the person who at the time was the leading candidate to be his opponent next year.
4. Trump and Barr (who was implicated in 3) conspired to prevent 3 from coming to light when a whistle-blower complaint threatened to blow the lid off the whole thing.
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This.

Trump has done so much impeachable shit that trying to nail him on all of it would take way more time than we have, and present a muddled mess to the public.

The Ukraine scandal situation is such a big deal, not just because of its own severity, but because it ties together so many other things he's done. It's the anchor from which you'll thread a narrative.
 

Allard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,927
Linkura said:
Schiff is also really good at this shit. I'm ok with him being in control.
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Yep, helps he is also a former federal prosecutor (Who specifically had most of his work prosecuting federal employees for international misconduct). He has the right temperament and focus. I just hope he is ready for the circus that is coming his way, before it was more evenly spread if not directed at Nadler only, he needs to be ready for the pressure privately and publicly that is almost certainly coming.
 
onyx

onyx

Member
Dec 25, 2017
2,524
This shouldn't even take a month. Get the tape and if the Whitehouse gets in the way impeach on obstruction and what's known about the call. There is no need to drag this out.
 
Kirblar

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
And people question why lead poisoning lowering IQ and impulse control would lead to higher crime rrates.
 
adam387

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,215
Wilsongt said:


Hillary, sweaty. Now's not the best time.
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Where's the lie.

Also, if I was an amoral, opportunistic, piece of shit Republican (and since I'm a capitalist you know basically already true), I would also go with "Didn't read it." It's not a good look, but it's sure as hell better than "Very cool. Very legal." Because it's not those things. Plausible deniability baby.
 
Casa

Casa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,502
Illegitimate President, illegitimate judicial appointments. If, in the extremely unlikely scenario in which Trump is removed, I wish Dems would argue that the stooge judges he appointed should also be removed.
 
Linkura

Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,943
Nelo Ice said:
GOP: If you ignore it does it really exist?.
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More like: DIDN'T READ LOL

Allard said:
Yep, helps he is also a former federal prosecutor (Who specifically had most of his work prosecuting federal employees for international misconduct). He has the right temperament and focus. I just hope he is ready for the circus that is coming his way, before it was more evenly spread if not directed at Nadler only, he needs to be ready for the pressure privately and publicly that is almost certainly coming.
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I think he can do it.
 
refusi0n1

refusi0n1

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,901
Watching PBS newshour and got spooked by Kellyane Conway, shes looking like grim death more than usual days holy shit. Haven't seen her in months and not sure why they're having her on at all, it's just all lies
 
adam387

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,215
I just cannot understand why Kellyanne's gay lets her out the house with her hair looking so damn thirsty.
I've seen less thirst at the club on jock night.
 
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