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DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,475
I'm not sure dragging out the fight with House Dems into next year is the cleverest strategy by the WH.

Lets just be happy they are dumb

I just don't know if dumb translates to Trump being voted out. From my experience a significant chunk of our population is either brainwashed daily by fox news or just coasts through life avoiding politics entirely

No one with critical thinking skills is deep diving into this muck between their daily lives which is why I think Biden is even polling as high as he is

Biden is the staples Easy button so we can stop arguing with our families
 

AnotherNils

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,936
Lets just be happy they are dumb

I just don't know if dumb translates to Trump being voted out. From my experience a significant chunk of our population is either brainwashed daily by fox news or just coasts through life avoiding politics entirely
It depends on a few things, IMO.

If you think dragging Benghazi out was bad for Hillary, then this is bad strategy by the WH
If you think Benghazi backfired on the GOP, then this is good for the WH
except, if you think Benghazi backfired because there was nothing to it
or Benghazi backfired because Hillary's appearance made the GOP look like shmucks

I also think there's a chance that Trump gets so fucking cocky he finally crosses a line that a majority of the electorate won't stand for and he legitimizes the House oversight for political casuals.
 

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,475
It depends on a few things, IMO.

If you think dragging Benghazi out was bad for Hillary, then this is bad strategy by the WH
If you think Benghazi backfired on the GOP, then this is good for the WH
except, if you think Benghazi backfired because there was nothing to it
or Benghazi backfired because Hillary's appearance made the GOP look like shmucks

I also think there's a chance that Trump gets so fucking cocky he finally crosses a line that a majority of the electorate won't stand for and he legitimizes the House oversight for political casuals.

What line though?

We have been in the mud so long with Trump doing hundreds of things a president has never dared to do and yet... here they are protecting him as if its another day at the office

I have no idea what it would take to have his own truly turn against him permanently. What breaks the spell?
 

DanGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,739
Haul in McGahn. Haul in Mnuchin. These people are making up legal opinions to avoid participation.
 

AnotherNils

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,936
Not gonna pretend to know. Both due to lack of imagination and not knowing what kind of norm it is that strikes a chord with the public.

Kids in cages was his biggest misstep so far. Miller's been advocating some heinous stuff and they're rewriting guidelines to possible enable some equally severe stuff. The line might be there.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,973
Pelosi admitting Trump had her scared about the 2018 election, and also this statement below about goading Democrats into impeachment, is either really terrible to admit (if true) - or part of some master move to bait him into trapping himself. At this point I can't say which.

 

BoboBrazil

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,765
Pelosi admitting Trump had her scared about the 2018 election, and also this statement below about goading Democrats into impeachment, is either really terrible to admit (if true) - or part of some master move to bait him into trapping himself. At this point I can't say which.


And people still think she's willing to impeach
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,973
And people still think she's willing to impeach

Well, I think she wants to know (as do we all) what that final, firm approval percentage is going to be, so that it can be overcome or appropriately fought. It also helps politically if as many Republicans "out" themselves as being full-on with Trump as early as possible. Pelosi isn't the type of person who would say "Oh he made me afraid" and hand him power like that.
 

Pooh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,849
The Hundred Acre Wood
Pelosi admitting Trump had her scared about the 2018 election, and also this statement below about goading Democrats into impeachment, is either really terrible to admit (if true) - or part of some master move to bait him into trapping himself. At this point I can't say which.



Trump and the Dems playing poker:

1. Ante in
2. Trump gets a 2 7 off suit
3. Dems get a pair of Queens
4. Trump bluffs
5. Dems fold
6. Trump collects chips
7. Go back to 1
 

Sky Chief

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,380
The Dems will send a letter in a few days asking him to reconsider. Then after that they will discuss it some more before making a new letter and talking about in tweets. A month will go by and everyone will have moved on.

This is the biggest problem with Pelosi's approach. You have to strike while the outrage is fresh. After a week or so it's old news and the new normal.
 

DrForester

Mod of the Year 2006
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,646
User Warned: Inappropriate language
So, Nancy's new excuse is that we cant impeach trump because that's what trump wants them to do.


Fuck off you spineless bitch and put someone in charge who gives a shit.
 

Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,943
Because it was a backfiring nightmare on the GOP and kept other things from getting done- this is something that's kind of hard to explain if you didn't live through it. I get why they're worried about an impeachment process that can't end in removal.
Except Trump actually committed multiple serious crimes. Clinton did not. I'm not sure why they would consider it comparable.
 

DrForester

Mod of the Year 2006
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,646
Nancy deserves no respect. She refuses to act, and thinks Trump is above the law. She is completely useless as the house speaker, except to act as another person shielding trump from accountability.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Except Trump actually committed multiple serious crimes. Clinton did not. I'm not sure why they would consider it comparable.
Because people aren't rational.

Pelosi is also explicitly worried about what happens if/when Trump loses in 2020 and refuses to recognize the election results.
 

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
23,814

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Sky Chief

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,380
The GOP lost seats in a midterm as the opposition party.

That never happens.

I don't think that 1998 is at all a good parallel, the problem is that it's the only parallel many of the people in congress have experienced.

And then what happened in 2000?

I'm not going to vote for cowards who care about their political calculus more than the Constitution and the rule of law.
 

AnotherNils

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,936
They think the GOP impeaching Clinton caused his approval numbers to go up. They're too scared to consider that his approval went up because he was impeached over a blowjob (rather than job performance) or because it was clear Starr was really looking to get him (partisan).

Now, how they explain Nixon's numbers not going up during impeachment, I don't know. I'm guessing they think facts don't matter anymore. Their lack of spine, though, betrays them. Their inaction can be read as them not believing what they're saying instead.

Here's the tough part: Would you impeach Trump because its the right thing to do, without regard to what you think it would do to your electoral prospects?
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
And then what happened in 2000?

I'm not going to vote for cowards who care about their political calculus more than the Constitution and the rule of law.
The problem is that we're in a constitutional crisis right now because the constitutional framework is actively broken. The Senate is a broken institution.
That's why you have to stand up to him NOW

Don't continue to enable and normalize his bad behavior
The Senate is enabling it. Pelosi is trying to figure out how to act knowing this. This does not mean that Pelosi is enabling it. It's just like Mitch refusing to sign on to the Russian interference statement under Obama. It all goes back to Mitch and the Senate being institutionally broken.
 

Sky Chief

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,380
They think the GOP impeaching Clinton caused his approval numbers to go up. They're too scared to consider that his approval went up because he was impeached over a blowjob (rather than job performance) or because it was clear Starr was really looking to get him (partisan).

Now, how they explain Nixon's numbers not going up during impeachment, I don't know. I'm guessing they think facts don't matter anymore. Their lack of spine, though, betrays them. Their inaction can be read as them not believing what they're saying instead.

Here's the tough part: Would you impeach Trump because its the right thing to do, without regard to what you think it would do to your electoral prospects?

Absolutely, if you're not willing to stand up for doing the right thing then what are you willing to stand up for?
 

DrForester

Mod of the Year 2006
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,646
You need to take a step back and calm down.
Your right. Trump is above all laws.


McConnell was right. It is over. Republicans won't act, and neither will Democrats.



Apparently trump telling Congress to fuck off and Nancy say "well, we tried, but holding him accountable is exactly what he want" is some people's shit view of strong opposition leadership.
 

'3y Kingdom

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,494
The GOP lost seats in a midterm as the opposition party.

That never happens.

I don't think that 1998 is at all a good parallel, the problem is that it's the only parallel many of the people in congress have experienced.
Yeah, that was sure the end of the Republican Party.

If this is really what's keeping Democrats from initiating impeachment, they're overthinking things.
 

Doof

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,434
Kentucky
Your right. Trump is above all laws.


McConnell was right. It is over. Republicans won't act, and neither will Democrats.



Apparently trump telling Congress to fuck off and Nancy say "well, we tried, but holding him accountable is exactly what he want" is some people's shit view of strong opposition leadership.

Where did I say that? You sound like an insane person, and you need to take a break.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Your right. Trump is above all laws.

McConnell was right. It is over. Republicans won't act, and neither will Democrats.

Apparently trump telling Congress to fuck off and Nancy say "well, we tried, but holding him accountable is exactly what he want" is some people's shit view of strong opposition leadership.
Democrats cannot get him removed from office. That is the problem.

The fear that Nancy has explicitly stated is this- Impeachment fails, as we know it's going to, then in 2020 Trump refuses to recognize the election results using the impeachment proceedings as pretext.

I don't agree with this fear (because if he's going to do that, it doesn't matter what you do) but I understand it.
Sorry I want trump held accountable. You might be fine with Nancy doing fuck all, but I'm not.
This will not happen no matter what Nancy does.

You'd just prefer to blame "that bitch" instead of the man and party In the Senate actually preventing him from being held accountable.
 

Doof

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,434
Kentucky
Sorry I want trump held accountable. You might be fine with Nancy doing fuck all, but I'm not.

Again, point to where I said I don't want Trump held accountable. I just think you need to cut the sexist language and chill, but since you're obviously not interested in anything other than wild gesticulating and screaming into the void I'll save my breath.
 

DrForester

Mod of the Year 2006
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,646
Democrats cannot get him removed from office. That is the problem.

The fear that Nancy has explicitly stated is this- Impeachment fails, as we know it's going to, then in 2020 Trump refuses to recognize the election results using the impeachment proceedings as pretext.

I don't agree with this fear (because if he's going to do that, it doesn't matter what you do) but I understand it.

This will not happen no matter what Nancy does.

You'd just prefer to blame "that bitch" instead of the man and party In the Senate actually preventing him from being held accountable.
Then again, Nancy is fucking useless and she should be replaced as speaker. If a Speaker is going to let Republican inaction dictate Democrats actions, then they need to go.


No, he won't be removed. But you impeach him to show he is not above the law. You make it public, you put Republicans on defense for refusing to act. You make Republican complicity in his crimes the narrative.

Nancy refuses to do that. She's useless.
 
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