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US PoliERA 2019 |OT4| Folded like a DOG

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DanGo

DanGo

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Oct 25, 2017
6,739
Kai Dracon said:
I've wondered if Trump's constant whining over NO COLLUSION, at a certain point, would actually begin to look weak to republicans. If you're in the Fox-o-sphere you probably just heard that Buddy Barr said we're good to go for MAGA.

But here's Trump complaining and complaining about witch hunts, harassment, etc.
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I'm not sure I'd put much faith in that happening. Trump has always been a whiner who retreats into playing the victim, and yet his base continues to ostensibly view him as an alpha dog. He looks weak at every turn, but they don't see that, presumably because they recognize the same traits in themselves. His unearned success allows everyone to claim those weaknesses are strengths. If his base had any honest understanding of anything, they would have figured out Trump was weak as shit simply based on his body language whenever he's in a Cabinet meeting or being dressed down by world leaders. Nah, his base wouldn't acknowledge it, but they're okay with him being a cowardly weasel because they relate to that.
 
OuterLimits

OuterLimits

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
987
Autodidact said:
No, the GOP controlled both chambers in '98/99. They just didn't have 67 votes.
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Ah, my mistake. But yeah, that shows how even more impossible the Senate would be this time. Would need a bunch of Republicans to flip and Trump actually gained some who would be more loyal in the 2018 election.(Blackburn, Hawley, Cramer, etc....oh and McSally now instead of McCain obviously)
 
Commedieu

Commedieu

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
15,025
BoboBrazil said:
Pelosi is saying stuff like you can investigate without impeachment. It's clear she doesn't have the appetite for it. There's nothing she's said or done that says she's willing to impeach.

If they refuse to take action they will continue getting played.
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They just get dunked on every single hearing. Trump has told people he'd pardon them if they break the law... I will not be shocked when no one participates in their investigation.

Edit: @ Above

Yep, Like clockwork. Dems are going to be stuck playing by the rules with the dude who literally robs the bank while you play monopoly. Better get that shit into shape really quick. Its sort of like the last chance here to prove that Trump and Co aren't above the law.
 
Autodidact

Autodidact

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Oct 25, 2017
18,729
Commedieu said:
They just get dunked on every single hearing. Trump has told people he'd pardon them if they break the law... I will not be shocked when no one participates in their investigation.

Edit: @ Above

Yep, Like clockwork. Dems are going to be stuck playing by the rules with the dude who literally robs the bank while you play monopoly. Better get that shit into shape really quick. Its sort of like the last chance here to prove that Trump and Co aren't above the law.
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Okay, I support impeachment because he deserves to be put on trial and because I think it'll boost us electorally.

But he's not getting removed. 99% chance he'll still be president after the trial, so I don't think what you want to happen will happen. He'll face no legal consequences until he leaves office. Impeachment is about airing the facts and weakening him for the election.
 
XMonkey

XMonkey

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,827
The Clinton impeachment backfired so hard that Republicans won the Presidency*, maintained control of the House, and were left with a 50-50 tie in the Senate after the 2000 election.

If that's what a backfire looks like then I'll take it.
 
Autodidact

Autodidact

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Oct 25, 2017
18,729
XMonkey said:
The Clinton impeachment backfired so hard that Republicans won the Presidency*, maintained control of the House, and were left with a 50-50 tie in the Senate after the 2000 election.

If that's what a backfire looks like then I'll take it.
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Okay, you're not wrong but also not completely right.

Impeachment was a constant drumbeat in the run-up to '98 elections, not the 2000 ones. Democrats ran on it and told the electorate Republicans planned to impeach a popular president.

Republicans lost seats in the House when they should've gained them in the sixth year of a Democratic presidency; they gained nothing in the Senate when they should've. It did hurt them.

Still an apples-to-oranges comparison with Trump, though. He's unpopular and the public views him as a criminal.
 
Commedieu

Commedieu

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
15,025
Autodidact said:
Okay, I support impeachment because he deserves to be put on trial and because I think it'll boost us electorally.

But he's not getting removed. 99% chance he'll still be president after the trial, so I don't think what you want to happen will happen. He'll face no legal consequences until he leaves office. Impeachment is about airing the facts and weakening him for the election.
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Its not just impeachment, the president is telling his friends to break the law because he will pardon them. Or just telling people to break the law. He & The GOP are becoming less and less responsible to law. If that doesn't qualify to be removed from office via any process besides relying on corrupt republicans, thats a wrap for democracy. Same republicans are blatantly working with Russia & are actively trying to suppress voting with some success, like in Georgia. There needs to be some sort of evidence that people can't just laugh and tell congress to fuck off. If Trump doesn't qualify to be removed, the country is a wrap. Its that serious. Esp with his supreme court rigging as well. So, If nothing like that exists, there isn't any reason to cooperate with Congress. Just like Trump didn't cooperate with the special council. Drowning in a sea of technicalities while dudes rounding up children and buddying up with dictators around the world.

Impeachment isn't going to change any of that, but its a step in the right direction. Our systems are fatally flawed if Trumps actions aren't anything of note. And again, combined with the GOP's actions to remove the right to vote...

I hope, hes falling into some grand scheme... but the whole idea that a tyrant has to run their term, isn't a solid idea.
 
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XMonkey

XMonkey

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,827
Autodidact said:
Okay, you're not wrong but also not completely right.

Impeachment was a constant drumbeat in the run-up to '98 elections, not the 2000 ones. Democrats ran on it and told the electorate Republicans planned to impeach a popular president.

Republicans lost seats in the House when they should've gained them in the sixth year of a Democratic presidency; they gained nothing in the Senate when they should've. It did hurt them.

Still an apples-to-oranges comparison with Trump, though. He's unpopular and the public views him as a criminal.
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That's fair, and I appreciate you expanding.

Guess I'm just tired of this grand idea that Clinton's impeachment backfired so horribly for Republicans when it wasn't really that bad imo.

As you said, it's almost entirely apples to oranges anyway.
 
SatelliteOfLove

SatelliteOfLove

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Oct 26, 2017
7,961
South Carolina
Wonderment said:
I think we need to acknowledge that the most drastic and politicizing acts have already happened during this presidency - nunes night ride to the wh, two years of no oversight or material hearings about russian influence in the election, back channel from a republican senator to the wh, Trump obstructing justice and ignoring laws, one whole party not wanting healthcare or benefits or citizenship or voting rights. We're at the point now where impeachment proceedings are no longer the most politicizing act taken during this presidency, by a good margin.
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Speaking of people getting dumped out of office...
 
The Chosen One

The Chosen One

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Oct 26, 2017
6,815
Autodidact said:
I had to.
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9760.jpg
 
The Chosen One

The Chosen One

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,815
Another piece of good news.

When Bagdad Barr's Report came out almost a month ago, Trump's approval rating was essentially unmoved despite all the screaming headlines of "No Collusion and Total Exoneration" by the media and Trump allies in the first few days. Now we're seeing the first handful of polls since the actual Mueller Report came out and it seems Trump has taken an immediate 3-5 point hit in his approval rating.

We always like to assume the majority of the American public are idiots, but the majority got this right. They ignored Barr's letter and spin, and they paid attention to the actual Mueller Report. Gives me some hope that Congressional hearings (if done correctly) might actually move the needle further.

It is annoying though seeing all the Never Trumpers on TV saying, "Impeachment is a waste of time!!!111". Maybe Trump doesn't get convicted in the Senate, but I seriously doubt an impeachment trial will raise Trump's approval rating to 46-48%, which is what he needs to win reelection. If 38% which are mostly his base are emboldened and fired up in 2020, that's fine. It's still not enough to win a general election. The 2018 mid-term election was proof of that.
 

i like big butts

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,970
I mean, their approach to the whole report was to be Seymour Skinner. I'd be surprised if anyone bought their explanation in good faith.

"May I see the report?"
"Uhhhh...No."
 
WillyGubbins

WillyGubbins

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Oct 27, 2017
1,456
Glasgow
Re subpoenas - forgive me if this is a stupid question (I'm from the UK and not familiar with how it works), but how is it possible to just say no to one? Is there no recourse?
 
Gazele

Gazele

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Oct 25, 2017
972
There's gotta be a phrase for telling someone not to comply with a subpoena, maybe hindrance of an investigation? or something like that
 
TheHunter

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
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Oct 25, 2017
25,774
Also, Trump doing more sanctions on the world for Iran business is really gonna hurt the whole "Good economy" thing he's got going on.
 
IggyChooChoo

IggyChooChoo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,230
Hamrub said:
Re subpoenas - forgive me if this is a stupid question (I'm from the UK and not familiar with how it works), but how is it possible to just say no to one? Is there no recourse?
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MarioW said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Congress
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Something I've learned over the past year or two is just how slow and toothless contempt of Congress is. The typical process for establishing it requires the participation of the Justice Department and can drag out in court for years. It's a very, very ineffective tool for the job we have.

Lawfare has a helpful overview.
 
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