US PoliERA 2019 |OT4| Folded like a DOG

Autodidact · Apr 20, 2019

Dr. Benton Quest said:
Even with 2018 numbers, it shows America was more ready for an ignorant white reality TV star, than it was for an intelligent black man.

I'm not sure how Kirb thought this inspired confidence...

There is actually more reason to be confident.

Our majority in 2007-11 was built upon rural and conservative districts that were moving away from us. McCain carried so many Democratic districts in 2008, and when there was a racist backlash, they fell hard.

We now have a majority thanks to areas moving toward us.

Teggy · Apr 20, 2019

The president essentially posted an ad for Fox News, kill me now.

devSin · Apr 20, 2019

Dr. Benton Quest said:
Cowardly nonsense.

"Fighting is meaningless. Roll over until they let us win."

What version of America do you live in, friend?

The real one, not the fantasy of perfection you seem to have constructed where the righteous prevail and justice is served.

If you're not willing to pick your battles, don't go complaining about your number of losses. I know where the real fight is, thank you.

XMonkey · Apr 20, 2019

devSin said:
The real one, not the fantasy of perfection you seem to have constructed where the righteous prevail and justice is served.

If you're not willing to pick your battles, don't go complaining about your number of losses. I know where the real fight is, thank you.

I believe this is a battle certainly worth picking and it wouldn't be a loss for us.

That's the fundamental difference right now, I guess.

devSin · Apr 20, 2019

XMonkey said:
I believe this is a battle certainly worth picking and it wouldn't be a loss for us.

That's the fundamental difference right now, I guess.

I don't think there's quite the difference here that you may be seeing.

I'm not against impeachment, and I don't necessarily think it will have any effect (good or bad). I think it's beneficial to wait to see where the public stands, but if leadership decides to act sooner on principle, then I wouldn't fault them for it.

The disagreement is that people here need to be honest. Even if impeachment happens, the president will still be the president. The only way to change that is to vote in 2020. Beyond that, I don't have an opinion on people who are either in support of or opposed to impeachment; they're both valid perspectives.

Royalan · Apr 20, 2019

devSin said:
That's why I won't be flying into a rage and randomly attacking people if impeachment doesn't happen.

I will be, only because Trump's depravity has officially gotten to the point where impeachment has become a moral issue, not just a political one.

If Trump can't be impeached, then impeachment as an idea has officially become meaningless. If Trump isn't impeached, then Democrats have officially ceded government control to the minority. They've officially cosigned Trump's behavior in future presidents. They've officially copped to just playing politics like Republicans.

I don't know how the political bones will shake out. But the part of me that has always seen Democrats has the protectors of government norms and the rule of law....needs them to impeach. There has never been a more correct time for it.

devSin · Apr 20, 2019

Royalan said:
I will be, only because Trump's depravity has officially gotten to the point where impeachment has become a moral issue, not just a political one.

I might have been in normal circumstances. 2020 is too important.

If it doesn't happen, we still have to win. There is no other option.

Royalan said:
If Trump can't be impeached, then impeachment as an idea has officially become meaningless. If Trump isn't impeached, then Democrats have officially ceded government control to the minority. They've officially cosigned Trump's behavior in future presidents. They've officially copped to just playing politics like Republicans.

Honestly, I don't think that's quite fair. They don't have the power to remove Trump.

If they did, they would do it in a heartbeat. But given that they can't, should they fall on their swords just to run through a process designed to show us all what we already know?

A lot of people here like to sound off how the Democrats should stop playing by the rules and get down in the mud every time some crisis comes up, but now they're supposed to be paragons of virtue and stand solely on principle? You really can't have it both ways.

I'm lucky, because I support leadership and attempting to do the right thing. And I'd support impeachment. But I won't demand it of them, and I won't let it distract me from what truly needs to be done.

Deleted member 8257 · Apr 20, 2019

Autodidact said:
Still remember "shellacking."

I was... 8. Really.

Man you need hobbies.

BoboBrazil · Apr 20, 2019

I'll say it again. There's no downside to impeaching him. The critics of impeachment have said it will motivate Trump's base and he will attack Dems for it. His base will be motivated and Trump is going to attack Dems anyway for an illegal witch hunt anyway! It doesn't change anything except motivate Dems and keep Trump's crimes in the public eye!

XMonkey · Apr 20, 2019

devSin said:
I don't think there's quite the difference here that you may be seeing.

I'm not against impeachment, and I don't necessarily think it will have any effect (good or bad). I think it's beneficial to wait to see where the public stands, but if leadership decides to act sooner on principle, then I wouldn't fault them for it.

The disagreement is that people here need to be honest. Even if impeachment happens, the president will still be the president. The only way to change that is to vote in 2020. Beyond that, I don't have an opinion on people who are either in support of or opposed to impeachment; they're both valid perspectives.

Agreed, I think public opinion is important. But maybe not the most important thing for me.

Regarding the last paragraph, I don't think there's many people here who seriously think he's going to be removed at this point. I certainly don't. But that doesn't mean he shouldn't be impeached.

Autodidact · Apr 20, 2019

RustyNails said:
Man you need hobbies.

(I was a little older than 8.)

I just opened myself up to more shady comments than Jennifer Lopez at a conservatory.

I also have Shakespeare and skincare. Well, the latter is more a calling than a hobby.

less · Apr 20, 2019

BoboBrazil said:
I'll say it again. There's no downside to impeaching him. The critics of impeachment have said it will motivate Trump's base and he will attack Dems for it. His base will be motivated and Trump is going to attack Dems anyway for an illegal witch hunt anyway! It doesn't change anything except motivate Dems and keep Trump's crimes in the public eye!

This is my stance as well. Dems attempting impeachment won't really hurt them. Not as long as they lay out a good case...one which Mueller has built significantly for them. Most if not all Dems will still dislike the fuck out of Trump. Trump's base won't give a shit. Independents are unlikely to turn on Dems not when Trump is going to do a billion things to piss away any sympathy he can earn from those that feel the Dems shouldn't pursue impeachment.

DinosaurusRex · Apr 20, 2019

Dr. Benton Quest said:
Anyway, I consider you all allies and I hope you have a good night.

Be well, friends.

🤗

Autodidact said:
I also have Shakespeare and skincare. Well, the latter is more a calling than a hobby.

Alas pores, Yorick. I know them.

Deleted member 8257 · Apr 20, 2019

Autodidact said:
(I was a little older than 8.)

I just opened myself up to more shady comments than Jennifer Lopez at a conservatory.

I also have Shakespeare and skincare. Well, the latter is more a calling than a hobby.

I could use Shakespeare's take on current US politics.

Wilsongt · Apr 20, 2019

Autodidact said:
(I was a little older than 8.)

I just opened myself up to more shady comments than Jennifer Lopez at a conservatory.

I also have Shakespeare and skincare. Well, the latter is more a calling than a hobby.

Skincare will only get you so far in life.

And Shakespeare.

But that would require you to be older than a sperm cell in order to be able to considered cultured and vain enough to be able to engage in Shakespearean skincare regimens.

TaySan · Apr 20, 2019

BoboBrazil said:
I'll say it again. There's no downside to impeaching him. The critics of impeachment have said it will motivate Trump's base and he will attack Dems for it. His base will be motivated and Trump is going to attack Dems anyway for an illegal witch hunt anyway! It doesn't change anything except motivate Dems and keep Trump's crimes in the public eye!

Yup this is nothing like Clinton. Impeachment will open more investigations and potentially could expose more from Trump. I just don't see any downsides in doing it as long as it's executed well.

MarioW · Apr 20, 2019

Nothing will be more incriminating than Trump himself testifying in an impeachment hearing, belligerent, tired, and defensive. He'll produce a library of sound bites to be used in 2020 attack ads.

Teggy · Apr 20, 2019

Based on his written answers, a trump interview will look like that Justin Bieber deposition.

DinosaurusRex · Apr 20, 2019

Teggy said:
Based on his written answers, a trump interview will look like that Justin Bieber deposition.

MarioW · Apr 20, 2019

Teggy said:
Based on his written answers, a trump interview will look like that Justin Bieber deposition.

He won't be able to not respond. He is incapable.

RastaMentality · Apr 20, 2019

MarioW said:
Nothing will be more incriminating than Trump himself testifying in an impeachment hearing, belligerent, tired, and defensive. He'll produce a library of sound bites to be used in 2020 attack ads.

I actually think inviting Trump to testify would be a mistake. Because he'll lie obnoxiously the entire time and the Republicans will fellate him. Leave him home.

SatelliteOfLove · Apr 20, 2019

Autodidact said:
Madam Speaker at -2 approval, higher than Trump and way higher than McConnell at -23.

Astoundingly high for a Congressional leader.

ahahahahaha

And how many anti-Nancy ads went out last year? And most red-district Dems just used it themselves?

Autodidact said:
Yes, I read Twitter.

It's been two days.

The House isn't even in session.

The Speaker isn't even in the country.

It's been two days.

Impeachment takes a long time. Even if you have ample evidence, which I agree we do, you have to have hearings. The Judiciary Committee has to draft the articles. They have to pass committee. They have to be put on the floor. There's other business in the House, believe it or not. They have to make sure the public is at least somewhat on board.

I don't know how people making dilatory statements on a holiday weekend while we get the ducks together gets interpreted as "Democrats never fight, I need something more." Social media has conditioned to want things RIGHT NOW, but government in general moves at a glacial pace. If it happens in a week or a month or two, he'll still be guilty as fuck, and the outcome - getting acquitted by the GOP Senate but having everything exposed - will be exactly the same.

They impeached a Democratic president. It took months.

Yup. Two-a-week hearings. More indictments. More sentencings. More raids. More flips. More bombshell reports. More scruffy embassy hobos. And all with Individual-1 coming closer and closer to attacking everyone still near him in the inevitable narcissistic meltdown.

The heat will be turned up. It must be turned up to bake the impeachment cake. We need the right framing ("Barr hid the truth!" or "Why SHOULDN'T he be impeached for obstructing justice?") to battle for the hearts and minds of the low-infos. The Right is basically at Linus in the pumpkin patch levels of rationalization and panic. Turn. Up. That. Heat.

Kusagari · Apr 21, 2019

I missed that Fox actually polled Ilhan.

Diablos · Apr 21, 2019

Autodidact said:
Still remember "shellacking."

I was... 8. Really.

You were 8 years old?
EIGHT?

I feel so old!

Autodidact · Apr 21, 2019

Diablos said:
You were 8 years old?
EIGHT?

I feel so old!

LOL hell no.

Punished Goku · Apr 21, 2019

Linkura said:
Yeah, he's pretty late, and I know I riffed on Biden for it. But Booty also has Buttmentum and is gaining in the polls, unlike Biden, who could have used it as a real opportunity to help launch his campaign on a more personal level. Instead he decided to do it a week late and on the day of the Mueller report, so no one cared despite Biden trying to get people to care. It was at a big rally in Boston attended by the Mayor and other officials. The town Butt did his in isn't that big and it looks more organic and genuine, much like the others who visited locations (Forma, Sen Markey, Rep Clark, etc). Notice there aren't a whole lot of people there. I live in the town over and didn't know it was happening. Biden however announced several days in advance. Looks like Biden will only do these things if there's a big event and he gets a podium instead of organically talking to people.

Also, tbh, I just hate Biden. I'll be transparent.

<3<3<3 I just showed him this. I'm surprised anyone remembers my posts.

Fam I always remember, it's important to not piss you off. Otherwise I'm gonna get ignored :p

Punished Goku · Apr 21, 2019

Autodidact said:
There is actually more reason to be confident.

Our majority in 2007-11 was built upon rural and conservative districts that were moving away from us. McCain carried so many Democratic districts in 2008, and when there was a racist backlash, they fell hard.

We now have a majority thanks to areas moving toward us.

So I guess in the future Republicans are gonna have a harder time winning those areas back?
Because I don't know how they will get the majority in the future, especially when we get those new maps in MI, and PA.

Vimes · Apr 21, 2019

Why are people so weird about the ignore feature?

Some of us aren't here for The Discourse so much as trying to scrape up anything they can to counteract the media being complicit in gaslighting us every day.

If it weren't for the 1000 person limit I'd be blocking literally anyone who negatively affected my mental health even the smallest iota. (edit: this includes people who I'm not even making a character judgement on, I just don't want to see their posts for whatever reason) All our lives are stressful enough as it is without forum nonsense weighing us down too.

Yes, I'm speaking as the Ignore List Guy.

DinosaurusRex · Apr 21, 2019

Vimes said:
If it weren't for the 1000 person limit I'd be blocking literally anyone who negatively affected my mental health even the smallest iota.

I wonder if someone gets permanently banned do they get automatically removed from the ignore list?

Vector · Apr 21, 2019

Dems won by historic margins in 2018 yet gained fewer seats than the GOP did in 2010. If that ain't Gerrymandering...

There needs to be a SC ruling to end it if a Dem admin can't outlaw it.

The Chosen One · Apr 21, 2019

I know everyone is different, but I personally like hearing from people I completely disagree with or have different points of view. It helps keep my own beliefs and convictions in check and sometimes I get a different perspectives on things. Other times I just want to know people's thought process on how they got from A to C. So if they're saying something patently false or misguided, how did they get there? Understanding this helps me in real life discussions when I encounter people with similar views.

Now I prefer forums where people have actual discussions and not just one-liner drive-by posts. Those are useless. And obviously if arguments start getting circular, then it's time to drop the discussion. But if I had too many people on ignore, I would just feel like I'm in a bubble. Also how do you even follow discussions? It's like trying to read a map made of Swiss cheese.

But this is suppose to be a leisure/social activity for all of us, so if something is triggering you, you gotta do what's best for your mental health.

GiantEnemyGoomba · Apr 21, 2019

Raster said:
Dems won by historic margins in 2018 yet gained fewer seats than the GOP did in 2010. If that ain't Gerrymandering...

There needs to be a SC ruling to end it if a Dem admin can't outlaw it.

You gotta look at 2010 and 2018 in context of their previous presidential year elections to understand their particular seat changes. Obama was extremely popular when he was elected, so much so that he helped Ds win a seat in Idaho of all places on their way to a decent net gain in the House. When the snapback happened in 2010, it was so large partially because of how strong 2008 was for Ds.

2016 was a different story than 2008 because Trump was already pretty unpopular despite winning, so Rs actually lost seats in the House. Because of this, 2018 wasn't really a snapback like 2010, it was more of a continuation. Ds gained more seats in 2016 + 2018 than Rs gained in 2008 + 2010, 2010 just looks crazy as it was a more "concentrated" victory.

It's still possible gerrymandering could have prevented an even greater gain in 2018, but you have to remember for every North Carolina there's also a blue state that might have more R seats if its districts were redrawn.

jeelybeans · Apr 21, 2019

Kusagari said:
I missed that Fox actually polled Ilhan.

Her favorability with Dems should be higher. I don't think minorities even have a political party in America anymore.

RastaMentality · Apr 21, 2019

jeelybeans said:
Her favorability with Dems should be higher. I don't think minorities even have a political party in America anymore.

You can actually bet most of the minorities in the poll don't know her. A lot of black voters aren't as tuned in.

B-Dubs · Apr 21, 2019

jeelybeans said:
Her favorability with Dems should be higher. I don't think minorities even have a political party in America anymore.

There's a big "never heard of" number there from the look of it.

The Chosen One · Apr 21, 2019

Raster said:
Dems won by historic margins in 2018 yet gained fewer seats than the GOP did in 2010. If that ain't Gerrymandering...

There needs to be a SC ruling to end it if a Dem admin can't outlaw it.

Who wants to start the initiative to go to Red states and make progressive babies?

Gerrymandering is an issue but also it's because over the last 15-20 years young people have been feeling rural areas for urban/suburban cities. You also got a lot of college kids from rural states never returning home. This is making the rural areas even older, more conservative, and less educated. Perfect environment for Trumpism.

Whereas 2018 was largely won in the suburbs. Like Auto, I think DEMs will be able to hold onto the House easier this next couple of cycles compared to 2010. Suburbs are generally mostly college educated and the GOP's recent love affair with stupidity and hate in order to fall line with Dear Leader just isn't playing well there. I think those areas will be competitive again once the GOP returns to nominating establishment candidates, but we're a minimum of 6 years away from that.

Having said that, abolishing Gerrymandering only affects the House. It does nothing for the Senate and that's where the huge problem is for DEMs. The sheer number of red states with their shrinking populations wield so much power. That's why I was half-joking the best way to restore some balance in Congress is to seed more progresses in red states and never let them leave.

RastaMentality · Apr 21, 2019

Republicans always know all the candidates because of Faux lmfao

Deleted member 8257 · Apr 21, 2019

After you all got done reading Mueller Report, now imagine the "crime" of having a personal email server. Go back to the ridiculous summer of 2016 and how the GOP and the media were launching endless volley of attacks and criticism for just keeping a personal email server. How can you trust Hillary? She is corrupt, doesn't care for the rule of law and is...gasp, *arrogant*!! The Director of FBI must address this at once.

Reminisce about 2016 while keeping Mueller Report side by side. It blows your mind. How can humans be this hypocrite and still have the gall to show their faces in public.

RDreamer · Apr 21, 2019

Trump just loves crimes!

18 USC Section 1513: It's a crime to "knowingly, with the intent to retaliate" take "any action harmful to any person, including interference with the lawful employment or livelihood of any person, for providing...truthful information to law enforcement."

Trump campaign punishes Don McGahn's law firm

RustyNails said:
After you all got done reading Mueller Report, now imagine the "crime" of having a personal email server. Go back to the ridiculous summer of 2016 and how the GOP and the media were launching endless volley of attacks and criticism for just keeping a personal email server. How can you trust Hillary? She is corrupt, doesn't care for the rule of law and is...gasp, *arrogant*!! The Director of FBI must address this at once.

Reminisce about 2016 while keeping Mueller Report side by side. It blows your mind. How can humans be this hypocrite and still have the gall to show their faces in public.

Keep in mind Barr's behavior.

Now think about Clinton meeting Lynch on the tarmac.

.... yeah...

Deleted member 8257 · Apr 21, 2019

Deleted member 8257 · Apr 21, 2019

RDreamer said:
Trump just loves crimes!

18 USC Section 1513: It's a crime to "knowingly, with the intent to retaliate" take "any action harmful to any person, including interference with the lawful employment or livelihood of any person, for providing...truthful information to law enforcement."

Trump campaign punishes Don McGahn's law firm

Keep in mind Barr's behavior.

Now think about Clinton meeting Lynch on the tarmac.

.... yeah...

Ofc. Obviously a bigger crime than openly asking the AG to shut down your criminal investigation.

Wilsongt · Apr 21, 2019

*sips tea* that's quite the multilayer self own there.

ArkhamFantasy · Apr 21, 2019

I think there are people in the NYtimes that are genuinely proud of that tweet.

I dont know if stockholm sydrome is the right term, but they have some people there that desperately want his approval.

Wilsongt · Apr 21, 2019

Tapper bringing out Rudy fucking Guiliani again?

BoboBrazil · Apr 21, 2019

Wilsongt said:
Tapper bringing out Rudy fucking Guiliani again?

Media can't help themselves. They need Trump people like Giuliani and Conway on to spin the message.

Wilsongt · Apr 21, 2019

BoboBrazil said:
Media can't help themselves. They need Trump people like Giuliani and Conway on to spin the message.

She was on ABC.

I knew the media would be falling over themselves to get as many Trump mouthpieces on as possible.

The MSM really does America a disservice by allowing these people to lie to public as opposed to have people on explaining the news without the fucking Trump spin.

The media is useless and complicit.

Linkura · Apr 21, 2019

Punished Goku said:
Fam I always remember, it's important to not piss you off. Otherwise I'm gonna get ignored :p

It's not hard to stay off my ignore list. All you have to do is 1. not be an obnoxious Berniebro and 2. don't be an annoying idiot. For example, note that while sphagnum is a Berniebro, he isn't super obnoxious about it, so I don't have him on ignore.

The reason why I tell people I put them on ignore is so they know to stop replying to my posts. But they do it anyway because, well.

Vimes said:
Why are people so weird about the ignore feature?

Some of us aren't here for The Discourse so much as trying to scrape up anything they can to counteract the media being complicit in gaslighting us every day.

If it weren't for the 1000 person limit I'd be blocking literally anyone who negatively affected my mental health even the smallest iota. (edit: this includes people who I'm not even making a character judgement on, I just don't want to see their posts for whatever reason) All our lives are stressful enough as it is without forum nonsense weighing us down too.

Yes, I'm speaking as the Ignore List Guy.

<3

Yeah, I need to ignore the people I noted above for my mental health. I consider this thread a mostly safe zone, so I gotta keep it clean.

DinosaurusRex said:
I wonder if someone gets permanently banned do they get automatically removed from the ignore list?

They don't. You gotta remove them manually.

The Chosen One said:
Who wants to start the initiative to go to Red states and make progressive babies?

Gerrymandering is an issue but also it's because over the last 15-20 years young people have been feeling rural areas for urban/suburban cities. You also got a lot of college kids from rural states never returning home. This is making the rural areas even older, more conservative, and less educated. Perfect environment for Trumpism.

Whereas 2018 was largely won in the suburbs. Like Auto, I think DEMs will be able to hold onto the House easier this next couple of cycles compared to 2010. Suburbs are generally mostly college educated and the GOP's recent love affair with stupidity and hate in order to fall line with Dear Leader just isn't playing well there. I think those areas will be competitive again once the GOP returns to nominating establishment candidates, but we're a minimum of 6 years away from that.

Having said that, abolishing Gerrymandering only affects the House. It does nothing for the Senate and that's where the huge problem is for DEMs. The sheer number of red states with their shrinking populations wield so much power. That's why I was half-joking the best way to restore some balance in Congress is to seed more progresses in red states and never let them leave.

Nah, I'm staying the fuck away from red states for my mental health.

Wilsongt · Apr 21, 2019

Schiff walking right into that right-wing talking point.

Someone needs to get the memo out to Democrats to stop using collusion and use the terms Mueller used in the report. He had an entire fucking section about the collusion term.

rjinaz · Apr 21, 2019

The Chosen One said:
Who wants to start the initiative to go to Red states and make progressive babies?

.

Wilsongt · Apr 21, 2019

Rudy lmao

US PoliERA 2019 |OT4| Folded like a DOG

I can say DEI; you can't.

Deleted member 8257

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt

Deleted member 8257

SayTan

PikPok

PikPok

has a title.

That's some catch, that catch-22

Deleted member 8257

Deleted member 8257

Deleted member 8257

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt