Yeah, this isn't something Bernie fans are going to do much. Warren is their #2 pick.
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US PoliERA 2019 |OT1| You down wit' NDP? (Yeah you know me!) Who's down wit' AOC? (This whole party!)
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Yeah, this isn't something Bernie fans are going to do much. Warren is their #2 pick.
Importantly, Pelosi saying the wrong thing doesn't mean she'll vote the wrong way or prevent good bills from coming to a vote.
Is that what she really implied? Racism of the past is current racism in many ways, is it not? It's the same shit that's been happening for years and is not getting better, it's getting worse. It's years and years of everything reaching a breaking point. Isn't she basically just saying we need to get to the root of the problem?
I'm telling you what black voters are likely to hear. You can accept that or not.
But no, I think that she is trying to imply that racism is sort of a thing of the past to appease angry white voters who don't want to hear about racism.
We'll see how long that lasts if she starts cutting into his votes.
What I'm saying is: She may be the 2nd choice of Sanders' leftist base, but she ain't necessarily the 2nd choice of Bernie fans in general.
Yeah, agreed. There is a significant amount of people, even on the left-leaning side that bristle at Black Lives Matter, especially in the southern states. Autodidact's writeup a few days ago of southern voters who vote for left-leaning policies but vote for republicans (because they're fucking racists) was a hell of a thing to take in, but it's not wrong.
I'm also with others on that it's fucking important that we drag any politician, including our Queen for doing this. It's long overdue for the Dem establishment to get with the program and assert that black lives matter without any qualifiers. A message needs to be sent to people who thinks that they have to cater to racists to get good things done, that the party will move leftwards without them if need-be. No more waiting. No more excuses.
I'm talking about what she actually meant and not what people are hearing. I do think she needs to clarify her statement though.
I started out thinking she was walking a fine line but I really do just think she's simply saying BLM is important to her and getting to the heart of the matter of how African Americans have been mistreated as emphasized in BLM takes priority over a more neutral stance. And I really do think by past grievances she means we have to go all the way back and look at the fundamentals. And we do.
It was just a poorly worded statement. You can't be nuanced when you're talking about that.
Leftist fantasy programs? Like trying to prevent what happened to you from happening to anyone else?
Yeah, if the democratic party is ready to go left on economics, there's no reason we should be hearing All Lives Matter bullshit anyways. The party is nothing without black voters.
Yes. And a cop saved his life, but he never thanked her because she was a lesbian.
It's funny too because they've conducted such a successful campaign against liberals and socialism by basically making it seem crazy and fringe, dangerous even, that keeps people from seriously considering these ideas / concepts. But then they go and make a democratic socialist and her policy super visible and it's now getting covered by mainstream press who aren't necessarily handwaving it all away -- and when they try she clapsback with A+ social media game that only makes her seem more appealing and relatable. Um... backfire. She has millions of Twitter followers now, already. It's been fun to watch. And these last few days a LOT of people learned some stuff about taxes that otherwise would still be in the dark.
This is better. I'd still like some acknowledgment that she fucked up with Native people (who she hasn't talked to as far as I know)
The reports of the Bernie Bot attacks were not understated. What the hell.
All being led by an alt right troll. Shocker.
All being led by an alt right troll. Shocker.
A white upper middle class girl from my protestant christian middle school follows AOC and Ilhan Omar and likes all of their posts. I was 95% sure she was a conservative like everyone in that hell hole. She voted McCain in the 2008 straw poll we had.
college really changes some people.
Also, the wide fucking array of people from all over the country who mutually follow AOC on my instagram is wilding me out. This woman might be more Obama 2.0 than Beto.
college really changes some people.
Also, the wide fucking array of people from all over the country who mutually follow AOC on my instagram is wilding me out. This woman might be more Obama 2.0 than Beto.
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How I felt. Personally, I wouldn't give credence to what "black voters" supposedly hear according to one person's opinion. I personally don't feel that way as a black voter and I'm sure other black voters have their personal opinions about it. It would be preferable if folks didn't behave as if we're all going to take it the same way in any case.
I find it hard to take issue with someone saying we need to redress (remedy or set right) issues that were overlooked in the past regarding race. That said, it certainly isn't unfair to expect her to clarify her statements.
I'm not claiming to represent all black people, but you can go on Black Twitter or to black discussion boards and get a sense of how black folks are taking it generally. There's how you feel and then there's how the wider group of black folks generally appears to feel about it. The screenshot of the black woman in the crowd pre- and post-question is also an indicator.
I'm sorry, but I don't care what folks on twitter feeds that you follow generally think and I certainly wouldn't use it as the basis of an argument. You continue to do you though.
Edit: Just to be clear, I love resetera, but I wouldn't use the opinions (political or even gaming) here as an example of general sentiment to win an argument. I'm not saying the folks you follow are wrong, just that it's anecdotal at best. There's room to criticize Pelosi without behaving like the black people whisperer.
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But does this not speak to a larger problem with society in general and how we react to things that may not be entirely clear? i.e. focusing on one phrase or part of the sentence without taking into account the overall context behind the entirety of the statement?
No offense, but (assuming that you're not black), this speaks to how someone who is not black sort of contests what a black person or black people say about black issues instead of just listening and accepting that maybe we have a different insight than you because of our own blackness. Which again is not to imply that black people all agree on anything ever, but is to say that if many black folks had a problem with Pelosi's response, maybe arguing with them about "what Pelosi really meant" is a poor choice.
Intersectionality is hard, bruh, and I'm not mad at you, but think about what you're doing here and why maybe it's not a great choice when trying to navigate these issues with your voting partners.
(Or to put it another way, you wouldn't tell American Indians that they're just misunderstanding Elizabeth Warren's DNA test stunt, right? You wouldn't tell women that they're misunderstanding Joe Biden's remarks about Anita Hill, right?)
She's a white woman who's statement is being projected as offensive. Nancy has no history or standing within the black community, so I can tell you now that a lot of black people would probably take it badly.
Like 60% of black millennials use social media, so the hand waving away of black twitter is always hilarious and dumb.
Saying "All lives matter" anywhere in your statement is bound to piss off tons of folks
I'd say that just because you don't hang out where black folks congregate, that doesn't meant that you get to handwave away what black folks are actually saying! No one is being a "black people whisperer;" if you're talking to your people who are engaged with this, though, you'll probably be hearing the same things that I am.
You can be an outlier among black folks and still have valid feelings, bruh. You don't have to jump in to clarify to non-black folks with "not all black people" when a majority of black folks think something differently than you do.
I've not said she couldn't be criticized, but I saw a post specifically addressing "past grievances" portion of her statement and addressed that as it feels like a bit of a reach. I find definitive statements about how one group (that I'm a part of and interact with) feels based on anecdotes dumb, so we'll both have to cope.
Say what?
Someone NEEDS to be mentoring and getting AOC ready for a 2028 run like... Yesterday.
She already seems like she's got a good enough head on her shoulders. I think she should continue doing whatever she's been doing as it seems to be working.
Stop trying to tell folks what they're about. You're still doing exactly what I said. Now you're telling me I don't congregate with friends and family or speak politics with other black coworkers because I feel that black folks have more varied opinions than what you read on black twitter. I'm pretty sure there's about a 100 things we agree on, but this one makes me out of touch, eh?
I'm not trying to be rude, but I probably won't be responding to you further as this isn't going anywhere.
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Wait, what happened? I know there's been plenty of complaints about threads lately, but I haven't paid much attention as to the specifics.
I'm white. It's really not an argument with the black community (a lot of white people share the same opinion on this for example), it's putting emphasis on what Pelosi was really saying. I feel bad that so many people are upset and she really needs to get on the morning shows tomorrow and clarify.
I don't really have anything to say about Warren's DNA test stunt. I guess it was a little funny but it's just kind of something that she did, there's really no other way to explain it. As for Biden flipping out about Anita Hill/FBI so many years ago, I would have no reason to tell women or anyone that they misunderstood him because there was nothing to misunderstand about his words. It was a disappointing display for sure. So I wouldn't even go there.
But Pelosi's statement is poorly worded and can easily be taken out of context but honestly TL;DR, BLM is important and a priority and she wants to find out the best ways to address it because we've fucked up so many times before.
Elizabeth Warren's tweets are being spammed by Bernie Bots all with the same message, and it's being led in large part by a GOP operative/professional troll.
This is honestly exposing that the Democratic party really doesn't have a unified message on racial justice beyond cameras for cops.
Let's hope it comes in 2020
Oh ok. I thought you meant someone on this forum had a botnet they were using to make posts here. I know the site still needs time to filter out the deplorables who haven't exposed themselves yet, but I didn't think we had anything that severe.
I think you're underestimating how many pretend -Bernie fans there are and how frequently they're going to act. I think they're the poop in the pool. Not a lot of volume but the pool is still ruined for everyone else.
And I think you're overestimating some legitimate Bernie fans' sense of tribalism. Hopefully Bernie himself will actually do something about it this time when it happens. And it's already starting.
I guess that's the point; we're fundamentally disagreeing on what Pelosi was really saying. Rasta Mentality's tweet that he found is basically arguing what I'm arguing and what I've seen and read and heard a lot of from the places where I go to talk about this that aren't here.
So, "what Pelosi is really saying" isn't even something that is objective in truth. I'm not sure what you mean by that.
I think that this time around, the bots pushing dissension are so transparent, and the hatred of Trump is so unifying that we won't have issues on the same scale that we did in 2016, and I do think that it will be easier for the eventual nominee to get everyone else to coalesce around them.
Its like they think any criticism is going to get out of control and turn into cancel x person.
I said something similar in the other thread, but I think you capture some important additional nuances, well said.
Wow, that's really good to hear.
From the leftist base, I do see some uncertainty with regard to Warren's willingness/eagerness to use the 'bully pulpit' to vigorously/persuasively advocate for single-payer:
In fairness to Warren, she was the second (after Harris) out of 16 senators total, to publicly indicate full support of Bernie's single-payer Medicare For All Bill (S. 1804):
But as Josh Miller-Lewis says in the quote above (and Peter Gowan in the tweet above that), it's important to actually talk about the advantages of single-payer. Publicly indicating full support/co-sponsoring a single-payer bill is important, but it's obviously distinct from full-throated advocacy (as described here and here), which is something many folks are hoping to see in the future from Warren, as well as the other potential candidates (several of whom are among the 16 co-sponsors).
On the popularity front, sure. It's too early to judge her being a leader congress since the year has just started. Once the 2 years are up well have a better idea of what she can do with governing.
Speaker of the House may not be a good idea for someone who wants money out of government and hates corporate donors. She could do the leading party in congress with training, I agree, the rest comes from funding the Democratic party. One of Pelosi's strengths is being an affective fundraiser, and without that money maintaining the party many organisations will flounder and campaigns won't get their extra money when they need it.
Another factor that I'm unsure about is how is she influenced by the Justice Democrats leadership, and Brand New Democrats? How tied is she to them in making political decisions? The Justice Dems/TYT are heavily linked to her office now, her chief of staff is a main leader with the group and they are far too ingrained into isolating themselves from the party itself because they don't want to be "Establishment."
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How do y'all have the energy to follow this primary this far out? It's been like three days of hearing news about it, and I'm exhausted already.
Only 554 days of this to go!
Only 554 days of this to go!
You merely adopted the political discourseHow do y'all have the energy to follow this primary this far out? It's been like three days of hearing news about it, and I'm exhausted already.
Only 554 days of this to go!
I was born in it. Molded by it.
I didn't lack a news feed until I was already a man and by then it was nothing to me but BORING
Bernie burnt me too many times with that in '16. He's going to have to do a lot to prove himself that he's changed and since then I haven't been impressed. Relieved Warren is running to represent the left in the primaries, they need to better than Bernie and Inslee if they want a genuine chance to win this.
How do y'all have the energy to follow this primary this far out? It's been like three days of hearing news about it, and I'm exhausted already.
Only 554 days of this to go!
I just think of it as a really long countdown until Trump goes away. Hopefully.
How do y'all have the energy to follow this primary this far out? It's been like three days of hearing news about it, and I'm exhausted already.
Only 554 days of this to go!
Perfection.gif
I'm sure once this Govt shutdown is over we'll hear a ton more about the primary horse race/dems in disarray/but is she likable tho?/X Factor/"Working Class appeal"
I think Moderate Darling-lympics season in the Senate is gonna be a unexpected diversion though so the next 2 years are gonna be a gas.
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