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US forces in Iraq under attack from Iranian cruise missiles. [IMPORTANT STAFF POST]
- Thread starter Arc
- Start date
Vietnam was an even more complicated war as it was essentially a Cold War proxy war
That they lost when they failed to dislodge the DRV. Like they've lost in Afghanistan getting rid of the Taliban.
Did you miss the part where Trump tried to sign a peace treaty with the Taliban?
The US never went to war with Afghanistan, they drove the Taliban out. The issue in Afghanistan was they weren't really fighting an organized nation, but more independent gorilla warfare which is a totally different ballgame than a organized military.
I can't get over Oliver North, in 2020, being on a major news network bitching about Iranian missiles. If that doesn't perfectly encapsulate Fox and the lack of accountability in Republican circles, nothing does.
The Taliban are alive and kicking. Doesn't seem the conflict (war) worked to great effect
Maybe not completely out, but they were driven out of power and now they are an insurgency instead of controlling the country.
I don't think that Iran will just nuke Israel or whatever if they get the bomb, it will be a defensive weapon, but it's still a nuke, and the worst cast scenario with those things are really bad. Plus if Iran get nukes then I think KSA get nukes, and it's probably doesn't stop there.
But why not have peace with them?
I really don't think it's impossible and America never really tried.
It's gotta be better than this shit show, we're not pretending we're doing it for the people of Iran, right?
I thought the guy on the right was George Bush lol...
now that I think about it, it doesn't really matter too much
Lol I've been thinking about that all night.
I think a ground invasion of Iran would only be on the table if they were on the cusp of acquiring nuclear weapons. Even then I don't think the public would support after Bush cried wolf. If "war" ends up happening some time soon, then it'll be a hit and run disarmament campaign from the air/sea.
You know what I mean. They technically still operate in the country, but they are not in power, the US ousted them from power and now they are an insurgency. The conflict worked in that it got rid of a government that wasn't friendly with the US and replaced it with one that is.
The Taliban are alive and kicking. Doesn't seem the conflict (war) worked to great effect
The US is negotiating with them. Guess what happens when they leave. I'll point you back to the Vietnam example for that one.
Face it, the US lost the war.
The Taliban are alive and kicking. Doesn't seem the conflict (war) worked to great effect.
It didn't- but some of you are piling on to goblue a bit while being intentionally obtuse. Iran is a nation-state with a conventional military. The regime doesn't want an all out war with the US because there's no way it would end in any other fashion than with their military decimated and the regime toppled.
The US's inability to deal with the insurgency and proxy wars that would follow doesn't mean much to those currently in power, as they'd like to stay that way, thank you very much.
As a defender of the war in Afghanistan, this is an unsupportable rosy outlook of the situation. At the very best we have failed to win the complete victory that it looked like we were on the cusp of in 2002. At the very worst we have another Vietnam on our hands once we leave.
Trump is playing checkers instead of chess, he has no idea on how to plan further moves and is acting like a kid who can't see past one move
Trump's strategy is the same a JJ Abrams and Kathy Kennedy's on their Star Wars trilogy. There is no plan, they are all winging it
Trump's strategy is the same a JJ Abrams and Kathy Kennedy's on their Star Wars trilogy. There is no plan, they are all winging it
This is just reality, folks. Truth is I don't even know HOW you can "win" a war like that. I just don't see any long term objectives being met. No sane US citizen will want to engage in that type of shit.
Nation building has been one sloppy arrogant failure after another.
The US will hand over Afghanistan one way or another to the Taliban before they leave so that Russia or China can't deal with the Afghan government, and in the hopes that they too would end up in a quagmire if they do try to get involved.
This is also what the US will want to do with Iraq/Syria if they leave, so that Russia, Iran, or China can't get a firm foothold in the region without ending up in a quagmire of their own. Letting ISIS run around freely was part of that idea.
This is a fact.
This is also what the US will want to do with Iraq/Syria if they leave, so that Russia, Iran, or China can't get a firm foothold in the region without ending up in a quagmire of their own. Letting ISIS run around freely was part of that idea.
This is a fact.
You forgot to tell the part about winning against Vietnam and also about the mass destruction weapons Saddam had...
I'm starting to think all those war powers granted to the executive branch after 9/11 was a mistake....
Solution, never leave and a lot of people get paid in the process
Have you read the Afghanistan papers?
America was not on the cusp of anything. America could never even agree on what a victory in Afghanistan is, and it still can't.
Also, what do you mean "another Vietnam on our hands once we leave", you think it was a mistake for the US to leave Vietnam?
The painful thing is that in 2002/03 it really looked like we had the Taliban on their last legs. They were driven to the boarder of the country and were reeling from a focused NATO assault. Then we (the US) lost our focus and went into Iraq. That opened the door for the Taliban to regroup and claw their way back. Once they did we were never able to really regain the upper hand like we had for those months before we invaded Iraq. Once that happened there was no "winning" the war in a traditional sense.
The nation building we did was a joke. No comprehensive planning, just a one dimensional approach of bombing and then sending over a couple of engineers to help them build roads. Utter failure.
Yea, earthquakes aren't really that much weird here. We usually get quite a few each year.
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Dude the veterans that served over there that I've talked to don't even support the war. "We ruined that fucking country man, it's a mess." Defending the war in Afghanistan is just wow.
No Vietnam was a fucked up situation. I'm not defending Vietnam in any sense of the imagination. My point is that once we left, the North Vietnamese toppled the weak South Vietnamese government, just like the Taliban will. We will never "win" in Afghanistan.
My reading of those recent Afghanistan papers was that 99% of the time there has been utterly wasted and we've been lied to. There were no workable strategy and no plan for ultimate success. I admit that I haven't read the papers as closely as I would like- life gets in the ways sometimes. But my understanding was still that in those earliest days we had an opening to really drive the Taliban out and failed to do it. From there it has been nothing but an unwinnable quagmire that has cost us, our allies, and the Afghanistan people countless lives and that the reasons for remaining were nothing but lies.
And let me clarify what I mean by "supporter" of the Afghanistan war. The Taliban were terrible people who treat their people (especially women) terribly and knowingly protected Bin Laden. I don't regret us going after them, I regret our inability to see anything beyond our nose and fighting a fruitless war that has done nothing but hurt people and left the country worse off. We should have cut bait 17 years ago and gotten the hell out of there because there was no positive outcome even then. But in those days immediately after 9/11 a response was necessary- we just really fucked it up. Iraq is completely unjustifiable.
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Right? Grass is green and all I know, but man America can be a bummer
Jesus Christ at Fox News, they'll cheer lead anything Don and his syndicate does. All while accusing the opposing media of exactly what they're doing.
I personally think that the painful thing about the Afghanistan war is the hundreds of thousands of people who died, maimed, got displaced, or had their lives ruined in ways one prefer not to think of.
But I guess the fact that the US didn't manage to install a pro America puppet regime there is also kinda sad.
And I don't know how anyone can read the Afghanistan papers and come to the conclusion that the US was closed to achieving anything. You have American generals straight up saying that they didn't even have a good idea what the mission was.
User warned: inappropriate language
Chill. No one died. That being the result likely means nothing more will happen because of this ..... at least for the immediate future, unless Trump goes full retard ... which you can't plan for.
You had so many deaths, so much destruction, it cost so much money, and we all know how it's gonna end.
You're not gonna improve anyone's life but a few corrupt assholes in Kabul who got rich working for the US and will get green cards when the US leave, just like they did in Vietnam, and they will leave the poor people to fend for themselves.
Going to need a source on that. US personnel killed in the attack is going to make this a whole lot worse.
What do you mean? Calm down and breathe. Get a shot of whiskey and smoke some weed.
Its probably just the Iranian government lying as usual to make itself look good.