• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Status
Not open for further replies.

DrewFu

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Apr 19, 2018
10,360
Is that "would no longer exist" or "I hope would no longer exist"? Because you really really like repeating existential threats to Iran. In any thread about the US military adventures you feel the need to remind us of how US could kill everyone.

I shouldn't dignify this stupidity with a response, but I don't have any ill will towards the Iranian people, nor do I support this escalation at all. But it doesn't need to be explained what would happen to Iran if they directly attacked the US or assassinated the President - which was my response to that being mentioned in the post I quoted.
 

Jroc

Banned
Jun 9, 2018
6,145
I'm struggling to see the geopolitical plan behind this assasination. Even Cheney and Co had some logic behind their grand strategies.

It's looking like it was purely to piss off Iran since they know they can't really do anything about it.
 

DrewFu

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Apr 19, 2018
10,360
No one is denying that the killing of Soleimani could easily be construed as an act of war. But no one in the Iranian government is using those terms. Lots of talk of revenge and crushing retaliation but no one is using the word "war." that's significant.
Bingo.

Your missing the forest for a tree.

Again, do you think Iran just sits on their hands?

If anything but an emphatic yes, it then begs the obvious question of what happens after Iran does so, which is obviously America escalates back. Simply not declaring war outright does not significantly change much besides hastening a process that no one seems to have an articulation for how it will now cease.
You seem to be mistaking a response with war. They are very, very different. And Iran has a plethora of option at their disposal that wouldn't lead to war.
 

Bigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,637
No, he was banned because the war criminal wasn't white or of western origin.

Cheney could croak right now and you won't see people banned for RIP. That's just the reality of things.

evil Americans deserve nuance. Evil brown and black people deserve condemnation
A whole lot of other war criminals need to join that list where instabans are given for saying "RIP". I guarantee you no one will be banned when saying RIP for Henry fucking Kissinger.
People are sympathetic to war criminals here every day..
He just wasn't the right colour.
Not denying this forum has a double standard for this kind of stuff and I didn't mean to imply otherwise. But the previous poster asked for a reason and that's the reason.
 

LukeOP

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,749
I'm struggling to see the geopolitical plan behind this assasination. Even Cheney and Co had some logic behind their grand strategies.

It's looking like it was purely to piss off Iran since they know they can't really do anything about it.

First steps toward dictatorship in the US. Americans should be looking within for threats right now but all attention is on Iran's next move.
 

Bigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,637
Your missing the forest for a tree.

Again, do you think Iran just sits on their hands?

If anything but an emphatic yes, it then begs the obvious question of what happens after Iran does so, which is obviously America escalates back. Simply not declaring war outright does not significantly change much besides hastening a process that no one seems to have an articulation for how it will now cease.
Already said that this will definitely lead to a significant increase in missile strikes and terrorist attacks. Still not the same thing as an explicit ground war.
 

Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
I'd normally agree but with this nutcase running things, I'm not dismissing anything...who the hell knows what he might try.
I understand that fear, but even just the actual logistical constraints of war with Iran are gigantic. Iran is not Iraq, Iran has a strong centralized government, large comparatively well-trained and equipped military, and is many times the size and population of Iraq.

An actual war with them is not something the US is prepared for, and it would take a lot of time to physically get in that position.
 

Nola

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,061
The official NSC statement said that Iran will take revenge in "appropriate time" so they might be trying to deescalate.
Do you think they have total control of their proxies
Bingo.


You seem to be mistaking a response with war. They are very, very different. And Iran has a plethora of option at their disposal that wouldn't lead to war.
So again I ask, what is the stopping point here? What action will Iran be able to take that both satisfies the nationalistic fervor brewing and being fed but not be met with additional escalatory actions by the US? Which Iran will then also feel obligated to respond to?

I didn't state anywhere that this is an official interpretation of an act of war, but you and others aren't making any sort of convincing case for why this escalation is magically going to end or how? And it seems like the best response so far is hoping that a nation that's power structure is not fully in their control can maintain enough restraint to not retaliate in a fashion that will simply provoke additional American escalation.
 

IggyChooChoo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,230
Anyone who thinks Trump getting a second term won't spell the end for this country hasn't been paying attention to news like this. Fucking hell....please not another war in the middle east...
Forget Trump; RGB dying this year might do it. A decision declaring federal tax powers unconstitutional and starve Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security is fully in play at that point.
 

Jerm411

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,027
Clinton, MO
I understand that fear, but even just the actual logistical constraints of war with Iran are gigantic. Iran is not Iraq, Iran has a strong centralized government, large comparatively well-trained and equipped military, and is many times the size and population of Iraq.

An actual war with them is not something the US is prepared for, and it would take a lot of time to physically get in that position.

I 100% agree trust me...I just hope those in charge realize these facts as well.
 

DrewFu

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Apr 19, 2018
10,360
Do you think they have total control of their proxies

So again I ask, what is the stopping point here? What action will Iran be able to take that both satisfies the nationalistic fervor brewing and being fed but not be met with additional escalatory actions by the US? Which Iran will then also feel obligated to respond to?

I didn't state anywhere that this is an official interpretation of an act of war, but you and others aren't making any sort of convincing case for why this escalation is magically going to end or how? And it seems like the best response so far is hoping that a nation that's power structure is not fully in their control can maintain enough restraint to not retaliate in a fashion that will simply provoke additional American escalation.
My guess would be Iran could further disrupt the strait, they could attack an oil refinery, take action against US proxies, etc.

The red line would likely be be directly attacking US bases, but honestly, who knows for sure.
 

klonere

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
3,439
I guess you're going all in on this jingoistic bullshit.

I don't think Drew is wrong - the US could theoretically get rid of Iran as we know it (like it did with Iraq in tearing out the Baath party and woops they made ISIS!!)

The human cost for America (american soldiers are the only ones that count on casualty lists) would be staggering. It's whether they admin would be willing to stomach that in order to make a point.
 

Nola

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,061
My guess would be Iran could further disrupt the strait, they could attack an oil refinery, take action against US proxies, etc.

The redline would likely be be directly attacking US bases, but honestly, who knows for sure.
So then what happens after each of those actions? You think America responds in the same escalatory manner they have to each Iranian action so far? If not, what magically changes?

Are you also starting to see the problem arising from playing this out to its logical conclusion yet?
 

Shoeless

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,000
I wonder what the average conservative American public response is to this? Do they remember they hated Hillary for being a "Hawk" and get angry at Trump for provoking a possible war, or do they magically "remember" they've been desperate for a war, and cheerfully tell their kids, "Hey, sign up and go kill some savages on foreign soil"?
 

SpaceCrystal

Banned
Apr 1, 2019
7,714
I want to see all of those ignorant Trump cultist fools defend/spin this shit & go to war for him.

So busy thinking that Hillary Clinton will start wars due to her thinking that she's a warmonger.
 

lunarworks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,169
Toronto
I wonder what the average conservative American public response is to this? Do they remember they hated Hillary for being a "Hawk" and get angry at Trump for provoking a possible war, or do they magically "remember" they've been desperate for a war, and cheerfully tell their kids, "Hey, sign up and go kill some savages on foreign soil"?
It's "their team's" play, so they're gonna stand behind it.
 

DrewFu

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Apr 19, 2018
10,360
Answer: They wouldn't "wipe Iran clean off the map".

May I remind you that we invaded Afghanistan months after 911 and our troops are still there. The Taliban is still there.
You're talking about two different things. Afghanistan was not a response to the US being directly attacked by a country's military nor the president being assassinated. Again, that was the scenario that I was responding to. I didn't just bring it up for the hell of it.

If either of those things happen, if Iran still exists, Tehran likely doesn't. If either of those happen, parts of Iran absolutely would be bombed into oblivion.
 

klonere

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
3,439
M78tTKB.png
la1xd9X.png


Trump further buoying a vibrant economy!!!!!
 

AlwaysSalty

The Fallen
Nov 12, 2017
1,442
Ah the old start a war before the next election because the people you tricked into voting for you realized you were a piece of shit tactic. And people say Trump isn't a politician. It's how to get re-elected while being a republican 101.
 

DrewFu

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Apr 19, 2018
10,360
Ah the old start a war before the next election because the people you tricked into voting for you realized you were a piece of shit tactic. And people say Trump isn't a politician. It's how to get re-elected while being a republican 101.
Can people stop with this nonsense. War with Iran would be the final nail in the coffin of Trump's campaign. It is windy unpopular.
 

Deleted member 26398

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
706
You're talking about two different things. Afghanistan was not a response to the US being directly attacked by a country's military nor the president being assassinated. Again, that was the scenario that I was responding to. I didn't just bring it up for the hell of it.

If either of those things happen, if Iran still exists, Tehran likely doesn't.
The question is what practical thing are you suggesting? US goes there and kills almost all Iranians? US occupies Iran and declares that it is no longer called Iran and then sell it to highest bidder?
In any other scenarios there's a chance that Iran would again come to exist again in 100-200 years.
 

Emwitus

The Fallen
Feb 28, 2018
4,180
In all hones
The question is what practical thing are you suggesting? US goes there and kills almost all Iranians? US occupies Iran and declares that it is no longer called Iran and then sell it to highest bidder?
In any other scenarios there's a chance that Iran would again come to exist again in 100-200 years.
He doesn't know what he's talking about....


To be clear, if that happens, it would be genocide since millions of innocent civilians live in Tehran
 

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,116
Not denying this forum has a double standard for this kind of stuff and I didn't mean to imply otherwise. But the previous poster asked for a reason and that's the reason.

It's not you, honestly. This has been a long-running grief going back to GAF about how we treat war criminals we like vs war criminals we don't like. Along with how to judge who is a war criminal in the first place.

Ah the old start a war before the next election because the people you tricked into voting for you realized you were a piece of shit tactic. And people say Trump isn't a politician. It's how to get re-elected while being a republican 101.

DC062019.jpg


"This your first reëlection campaign, kid?"
 

Nola

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,061
You're talking about two different things. Afghanistan was not a response to the US being directly attacked by a country's military nor the president being assassinated. Again, that was the scenario that I was responding to. I didn't just bring it up for the hell of it.

If either of those things happen, if Iran still exists, Tehran likely doesn't. If either of those happen, parts of Iran absolutely would be bombed into oblivion.
There is no scenario where America would not invoke WWIII or universal international sanctioning if our response to a modest direct Iranian attack was glassing the country of 82 million mostly civilians. Or even just the 9 million in Tehran.

Get out of your fantasy land and magical thinking.
 

DrewFu

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Apr 19, 2018
10,360
In all hones
He doesn't know what he's talking about....


To be clear, if that happens, it would be genocide since millions of innocent civilians live in Tehran
Ok, since I don't know what I'm talking about, what do you think the response would be if Iran directly attacked the US or assassinated Trump?
 

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,458
I'm struggling to see the geopolitical plan behind this assasination. Even Cheney and Co had some logic behind their grand strategies.

It's looking like it was purely to piss off Iran since they know they can't really do anything about it.
The Trump administration doesn't act according to geopolitical aims in matter of foreign policy
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,121
I don't get the rationale. How would that serve interests of the US?
Something like what you suggest would mean killing at least like 60 million people. I can't see how it won't hurt US standing in the world.
"Assassinated our head of state" is a cassus belli that gets you a lot of leeway in disproportionate response. As long as nukes didn't come out, most of the world outside of the middle east would, sadly, not care in the least if the country was glassed in this hypothetical.
 

BabyMurloc

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,890
"Assassinated our head of state" is a cassus belli that gets you a lot of leeway in disproportionate response. As long as nukes didn't come out, most of the world outside of the middle east would, sadly, not care in the least if the country was glassed in this hypothetical.

So Iran has a kind of a lot of leeway since it was like one down from the head of state that the US murdered?
 

zashga

Losing is fun
Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,202
I don't know what's worse: Trump assassinating an Iranian to distract from impeachment, or Americans flipping into jingoistic fervor just in time for the the election. Seeing people talk about "wiping Iran off the map" is particularly ironic, given that Iran's use of similar language (regarding Israel) has been held up as proof they're an evil, destabilizing force in the region.

This country is so depressing sometimes. Here's hoping we somehow avoid yet another pointless, intractable war. Apparently saner heads do not necessarily prevail, and there is no actual brake (in government or the military) stopping Donald from doing whatever the fuck he wants.
 

El-Pistolero

Banned
Jan 4, 2018
1,308
Exactly we have people in here on the verge of mourning for the fucker.

That fucker has less blood on his hands than American officials. What a horrible, horrible country the United States has been for the last 6 decades or so, helped by the lethargy (if not outright support) of its population. This is insane...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.