US carriers kill Google's RCS messaging initiative

[Deleted member 6582]

CCMI is also a separate protocol. The level of compatibility with RCS as a protocol remains to be seen, but from the press release and subsequent interview, the CCMI implementation will not be compatible with existing RCS apps such as Google's Messages.

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I don't think it implies that but it could extend what RCS means. In either case, if it's not standardized it's not a standard. Google likes to pull bullshit like this in the web space where they call something a "standard" when they are the only one with an implementation and hope they can rally the troops so others fall in line with their implementation. The whole thing is just disgusting politics. Google wants to push RCS to counter iMessage and they want their app to win so they can collect that sweet SMS data, carriers want RCS to break Apple's hold and so they can get that sweet SMS data, Apple doesn't want RCS because then it weakens their stranglehold on iOS messaging which creates brand loyalty (fucking colored dots) and also allows them to give themselves exclusive access to messages for things like Siri and Apple Watch. Basically RCS is a good idea but everyone sucks.

 

[Komo]

Woot fuck you US carriers. Can't wait for it to effect everyone else not in the US.

 

[Diablos]

US carriers are the worst. It's text messaging. Let google do whatever the fuck they want.

 

[Deleted member 36054]

CCMI is also a separate protocol. The level of compatibility with RCS as a protocol remains to be seen, but from the press release and subsequent interview, the CCMI implementation will not be compatible with existing RCS apps such as Google's Messages.

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Did you even read it? CCMI is not a protocol but the name of the initiative. The Verge article said that the guy heading it up it said it will use the Universal Profile.

 

[Deleted member 13645]

Having the annoyance of stuff like this is one of the reasons I moved to iPhone. All of my family use iPhone, a good chunk of my friends use iPhone, it's nice to just have it all work as much -- as people meme that part of Apple products. I like having the solution and features just built into the OS, rather than having to use a 3rd party app and one that is owned by Facebook of all companies.

 

[Lishi]

WhatsApp usage even in Western Europe and Latin America is only in the 50-70% range. There are huge swaths of the globe where it's below 10%.

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I never had any problem with what's app in Europe. the defacto adoption between rate between me and my friend and whoever we needed to contact is 100%.

Now in Asia sometime you meet someone that don't have it.

But you know I have no problem installing apps on my smartphone.

And the inconvenience to use different app is nothing compared to need to use SMS and be stuck in cavemen technology.

 

[elzeus]

Apple should release iMessages as a subscription on android and make bank while taking over the messaging game in the US.

 

[SMD]

.

 

[Deleted member 39374]

iMessage is a godsend, but when I'm overseas not as many people have iOS devices so I use FBM which is pretty decent as well. It does calls and stuff over data.

 

[Deleted member 21709]

Some Europeans still think WhatsApp is a thing in the US huh.

Why the fuck would anyone use SMS in 2019? WhatsApp, Telegram, there are so many apps that are miles better. iMessage is pretty shit anyway, like it's not a selling point that it mimics SMS.

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Yeah, iMessage sucks compared to WhatsApp... right.

I guess if you're into Facebook and using additional apps.

 

[Deleted member 6582]

Why the fuck would anyone use SMS in 2019? WhatsApp, Telegram, there are so many apps that are miles better. iMessage is pretty shit anyway, like it's not a selling point that it mimics SMS.

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The point of RCS is to take the advancements found in modern messaging and make it more of an open standard so people's messages aren't siloed in particular apps. Of course all this shows is that whoever owns the default app will be the one who reaps the bounty.

 

[RastaMentality]

Why the fuck would anyone use SMS in 2019? WhatsApp, Telegram, there are so many apps that are miles better. iMessage is pretty shit anyway, like it's not a selling point that it mimics SMS.

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The biggest selling point is that you don't have to download another app and hope your friends have it. It just fucking works. Period.

 

[Wilf Netherton]

Why the fuck would anyone use SMS in 2019? WhatsApp, Telegram, there are so many apps that are miles better. iMessage is pretty shit anyway, like it's not a selling point that it mimics SMS.

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Because 100% of mobile phones in the US can receive and send SMS by default and way over 90% of those phones are on plans that have free messaging.

Oh, and it even works in places where data service is unavailable.

 

[toohectic]

Why the fuck would anyone use SMS in 2019? WhatsApp, Telegram, there are so many apps that are miles better. iMessage is pretty shit anyway, like it's not a selling point that it mimics SMS.

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As a US iPhone user, I obviously have never tried WhatsApp, Telegram, etc. What features do those apps offer to set them apart from iMessage other than adoption rates in other countries? What is iMessage missing? Genuinely curious.

 

[Wilf Netherton]

As a US iPhone user, I obviously have never tried WhatsApp, Telegram, etc. What features do those apps offer to set them apart from iMessage other than adoption rates in other countries? What is iMessage missing? Genuinely curious.

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Line has cool stickers.

 

[Deleted member 21709]

As a US iPhone user, I obviously have never tried WhatsApp, Telegram, etc. What features do those apps offer to set them apart from iMessage other than adoption rates in other countries? What is iMessage missing? Genuinely curious.

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WhatsApp allows for free voice calling over data. I suppose like FaceTime.

 

[Deleted member 9317]

The solution to all this is for Google to partner with Facebook and shove WhatsApp down everyone's throat and make it the default bloatware that some may not use. Then reprogram WhatsApp so that it accepts messages from SMS and iMessage and combines it into one.

Hooray, capitalism.

 

[RastaMentality]

Telegram lets you delete the other person's messages. If this ever came to Whatsapp or Messenger or iMessage, it'd be an actual shit show.

 

[sangreal]

As a US iPhone user, I obviously have never tried WhatsApp, Telegram, etc. What features do those apps offer to set them apart from iMessage other than adoption rates in other countries? What is iMessage missing? Genuinely curious.

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a windows app

 

[NineConsonants]

iMessage doesn't have the same problem as them. 90% of iMessage users have no idea there is a difference between iMessage and texts as it is seamless in the texting app.

All of those require downloading a separate third party app and dont seamlessly function with SMS texting.

How iMessagee is seamless on the front-end for users is a major element of why no one in America uses WhatsApp.

This element of iMessage is what Google was trying to replicate.

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I
Doesn't Messenger give you the option to integrate with your messages? I don't use it because I don't want to use it that way.

 

[Rei no Otaku]

Because 100% of mobile phones in the US can receive and send SMS by default and way over 90% of those phones are on plans that have free messaging.

Oh, and it even works in places where data service is unavailable.

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This. I don't understand why you need all these apps. Me, and everyone I know, just sends texts on the phone through the text option. I'm confused as to why you need some 3rd party system in the middle. Is this an age thing? Do these apps let you send cool Zoomer memes or something?

 

[Timmm]

USA has pretty much always had free SMS. Rest of the world didn't. Which is what lead to the adoption of WhatsApp before iMessage was a major alternative to iMessage.

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Not just this (although that was a big reason), it also made sending pictures to friends free, which previously meant sending an MMS and they were quite expensive. In the EU it also allowed you to message to/from foreign countries for free before it was made illegal to charge extra for that. And then obviously it is cross platform, so you can talk to any friend on whatever OS they have and it didn't/doesn't matter - it's the same every time

Whatsapp is p much ubiquitous in the UK, and people will use it even if everyone in a conversation has an iPhone. The only time I ever use SMS is when I receive a text from an old person or some kind of automated service

It sucks that it is owned by Facebook, but they bought it after it was already fairly ingrained in peoples lives, and getting everyone you know to change to another service is hard

 

[NineConsonants]

So why doesn't Android just do what Apple does with iMessages?

 

[toohectic]

Line has cool stickers.

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Versus lame stickers?! Maybe this was a sarcastic response, but iMessage definitely has stickers.

WhatsApp allows for free voice calling over data. I suppose like FaceTime.

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As you pointed out, we have FaceTime and it's directly available within iMessage. You are pointing out how they are essentially the same, not different.

a windows app

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Agreeable.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

Why do I care about frsgmentstion or use on an automated scale?

Everyone I know uses WhatsApp including everyone with iPhones.

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I don't know anybody that uses it. I am in the US. I am not a young person though.

We are the land of SMS ;)

 

[Deleted member 21709]

Versus lame stickers?! Maybe this was a sarcastic response, but iMessage definitely has stickers.

As you pointed out, we have FaceTime and it's directly available within iMessage. You are pointing out how they are essentially the same, not different.

Agreeable.

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Facetime only works between Apple devices. Different.

 

[toohectic]

Facetime only works between Apple devices. Different.

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The original argument was that iMessage was "shit anyway" and I interpreted that to mean it lacked features outside of the fact that it was platform limited. Given two users messaging back and forth on iMessage on Apple devices, what are they missing that WhatsApp users have?

 

[Deleted member 5666]

I don't know anybody that uses it. I am in the US. I am not a young person though.

We are the land of SMS ;)

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not an age thing. Virtually young people in US have never even heard of WhatsApp most likely.

 

[Wilf Netherton]

So why doesn't Android just do what Apple does with iMessages?

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Because Apple managed to force the telcos to allow iMessage to interact directly with SMS traffic and (critically) capture and redirect it to the iMessage delivery services. The telcos agreed to this because Apple had enough leverage at launch to basically force AT&T to accept their terms, and once AT&T bought in as the exclusive iPhone carrier the others had to follow.

Google has never had the market position to do that, and the US carriers seem hell-bent on keeping it from happening again.

 

[Aphexian]

We have one person in our group chat that has an iPhone and it's supper annoying whenever we get a message back and it just says "______ liked 'The body of the text this text is referring to'"

Why doesn't it just not send that to us if we don't use iMessage because it seems like most in the chat find it annoying?

 

[lunarworks]

As SMS succeeded because was built into the GSM standard, there was no chance of a new universal messaging standard succeeding unless it was built into LTE or 5G.

 

[Aphexian]

We have one person in our group chat that has an iPhone and it's supper annoying whenever we get a message back and it just says "______ liked 'The body of the text this text is referring to'"

Why doesn't it just not send that to us if we don't use iMessage because it seems like most in the chat find it annoying?

 

[MajesticSoup]

USA has pretty much always had free SMS. Rest of the world didn't. Which is what lead to the adoption of WhatsApp before iMessage was a major alternative to iMessage.

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The real reason is that US is just slow.
'Hey guys It's 2019 have y'all heard of this new thing called venmo, it magically sends cash over the internet'

 

[faceless]

So why doesn't Android just do what Apple does with iMessages?

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US carriers stop selling Android phones

 

[Deleted member 16365]

Can't Google just continue working on RCS themselves and create their own iMessage now?

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Can't Google just continue working on RCS themselves and create their own iMessage now?

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Yeah, that was my thought. Or ignore the carrier's own system and implement their own?

I guess with net neutrality not applying, carriers could just block it...

 

[Wilf Netherton]

The real reason is that US is just slow.
'Hey guys It's 2019 have y'all heard of this new thing called venmo, it magically sends cash over the internet'

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The US has free SMS service so people don't have to use a Facebook account for basic communication.

 

[Aureon]

iMessage doesn't have the same problem as them. 90% of iMessage users have no idea there is a difference between iMessage and texts as it is seamless in the texting app.

All of those require downloading a separate third party app and dont seamlessly function with SMS texting.

How iMessagee is seamless on the front-end for users is a major element of why no one in America uses WhatsApp.

This element of iMessage is what Google was trying to replicate.

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iMessage is literally a preinstalled chat up with SMS retrofit.

Remember when the FCC forced AIM to allow for interoperability on other platforms? I feel like this is long overdue for mobile messaging. Too bad the 2019 FCC is completely toothless.

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God it is.
Chat client interoperability would be amazing.
The issue is servers having to talk to each other, i guess - but email seems to work?!

 

[Aureon]

Latin America is closer to 80-90% usage, not 50-70%. For a sample of Western Europe, it's 81% usage in Italy.

https://www.panoramas.pitt.edu/news-and-politics/whatsapp’s-popularity-abroad-vs-us

You vastly underestimate the global ubiquity of WhatsApp. It has > 2bn MAU (probably closing in on 3bn soon) globally. The entire internet-using population is around 4bn.

With that said, people in the U.S. will not adopt WhatsApp. Apple had the foresight to do iMessage, and now other ecosystems are catching up.

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81% in Italy?
I've literally never met a person with a smartphone without whatsapp.

 

[h1nch]

I just want iMessage on my android phone. Google and Apple should make that happen.

 

[show me your skeleton]

Its baffling to me that people outside the US use a Facebook owned messaging service.

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seems rich when this whole article and thread is about google

 

[johancruijff]

Yes yes please keep using SMS, be stubborn and don't budge, I'm not ready to switch job yet

 

[Deleted member 5666]

I just want iMessage on my android phone. Google and Apple should make that happen.

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Wouldn't make any sense for Apple. What would they get out of it? Apple is a hardware company and iMessage is a huge selling point for iPhones.

 

[NineConsonants]

iMessage is literally a preinstalled chat up with SMS retrofit.


God it is.
Chat client interoperability would be amazing.
The issue is servers having to talk to each other, i guess - but email seems to work?!

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Email is a standard protocol. The client apps you use just consume that standard protocol. Much like how HTML is a standard and you typically don't expect different behavior or compatibility issues with different browsers.

 

[Royalan]

Because Apple managed to force the telcos to allow iMessage to interact directly with SMS traffic and (critically) capture and redirect it to the iMessage delivery services. The telcos agreed to this because Apple had enough leverage at launch to basically force AT&T to accept their terms, and once AT&T bought in as the exclusive iPhone carrier the others had to follow.

Google has never had the market position to do that, and the US carriers seem hell-bent on keeping it from happening again.

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This made sense once upon a time. But Android is a juggernaut now. Google could absolutely throw their weight around if they want to.

It's just depressing. I vastly prefer Android, but for the first time since I left iPhone with the 5s, I'm feeling the pressure to return...almost solely because of iMessage.

 

[L.E.D.]

Because Apple managed to force the telcos to allow iMessage to interact directly with SMS traffic and (critically) capture and redirect it to the iMessage delivery services. The telcos agreed to this because Apple had enough leverage at launch to basically force AT&T to accept their terms, and once AT&T bought in as the exclusive iPhone carrier the others had to follow.

Google has never had the market position to do that, and the US carriers seem hell-bent on keeping it from happening again.

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This is really the Crux of the issue, Apple pulled a fast one before carriers even thought of implementing it. Carriers won't make that mistake again.

 

[Aureon]

Email is a standard protocol. The client apps you use just consume that standard protocol. Much like how HTML is a standard and you typically don't expect different behavior or compatibility issues with different browsers.

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Sure, but HTML is still deployed by a server.
In the case of IMAP\POP3, all email service providers have infrastructure to talk to each other using those protocols
Messaging has XMPP, but that hasn't been used since the glorious days of AOL

 

[Stinkles]

iMessage doesn't have the same problem as them. 90% of iMessage users have no idea there is a difference between iMessage and texts as it is seamless in the texting app.

All of those require downloading a separate third party app and dont seamlessly function with SMS texting.

How iMessagee is seamless on the front-end for users is a major element of why no one in America uses WhatsApp.

This element of iMessage is what Google was trying to replicate.

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until a group chat fails because of Android guy

 

[efr]

seems rich when this whole article and thread is about google

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you gotta make some attempt at using punctuation and capital letters when writing out something is this how whatsapp and facebook users write normally its gotta be a pain to read for the chinese government official assigned to your groupchat

 

[Good Kid mAAd Poster]

Like the imperial system.

Yes the US is stupid

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I live in the US, why should I install Whatsapp? It's annoying that I need to install so many apps just to do the same thing which is chat with people. I care about simplicity, it's inefficient and a waste to have 3 apps that do the same thing. This is why I never installed Whatsapp, or Line, or wechat, or FB Messenger.

I want all my messages to be in the same spot. Not 4 different applications. It just so happens, that the Messages app is installed by default on my phone, therefore I know I can receive SMS as well as iMessages. That's all I need.

Google should get their sh** together with RCS and come up with a default app. "install whatsapp" is not a solution.