Uproxx: So I'm just going to make a statement.
Rian Johnson: Okay.
Apropos of nothing.
Yeah.
Younger people are surprised to learn The Empire Strikes Back wasn't the consensus "best Star Wars movie" until maybe even the '90s. It was polarizing for quite some time.
Right.
The trajectory of The Last Jedi reminds me of that.
I'm a little wary to talk about that, because I don't want to sound like, I don't know, like I'm defending anything or something.
I don't think you have to defend anything.
So, I'm a little wary that even I answer one question about it, and not on you, but then a thousand other outlets suddenly pick it up and it's like, suddenly, it looks like it's just all talking about Star Wars.
Right. As opposed to everything we just talked about before this.
That's the thing. But, as a kid, I distinctly remember being disappointed by The Empire Strikes Back.
Was that the first one you saw?
That was my first one.
Me, too. Because you couldn't just "watch Star Wars" like now. It's whatever was in the theater at the time.
I think my dad took me when I was really young to see A New Hope. Yeah, no, I remember, especially in the context of Return of the Jedi, which as a kid I adored. And so, yeah, I remember very vividly. But then Empire slowly became my favorite one. Look, man, same about you, we were in our twenties when the Prequels came out.
The weird thing about Empire was I had the toys before I saw it. All the older kids had been telling me how fun the original Star Wars is. Then Empire is released and my parents take me and it's like, what the hell was that?
Luke gets symbolically castrated by his father.
As a little kid it's like, I thought this was supposed to be fun?
Yeah. It sticks. That's why that's the one that, even though at that time I had that reaction to it, it stuck in me and it resonated with me. I remember the Prequels, that acrimony of the prequels. I think people forget exactly the tenor of the danger. We remember because we were in the thick of it. So, I mean, I don't know. I think that anything with a passionate following always has a passionate following and Star Wars is that, even more so. You can't be angry at one side of it when it's also the reason the positive is so passionate, you know? It's all part of the same thing and it always was like this basic thing. That's why I love it.
