Stadia is not that much more powerful than an X. In PC terms it's barely mid-range.
Vega 56 is virtually a potato for 2019, let alone going forward.
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Update: Stadia Launch titles increased from 12 to 22, SamSho now included with Pro
- Thread starter Fat4all
- Start date
Stadia is not that much more powerful than an X. In PC terms it's barely mid-range.
Vega 56 is virtually a potato for 2019, let alone going forward.
You do realize that there are many different Vega 56 configurations, right, each with different capabilities? For Stadia in particular, they are using a custom AMD Datacenter GPU with 16GB VRAM, half of that using high speed HBM2 RAM, that can churn out about 10.7 TFLOPs of performance. This puts it above an RTX 2080 for speed but below a 2080 Super - that's not "barely mid range". An Xbox One X in comparison is about 6 TFLOPs of performance.
We'll have to wait for the press embargos to wear off tomorrow to find out if the Stadia can do ray tracing (press may not have had Metro Exodus but they would definitely have had Shadow of the Tomb Raider to test with). Personally I doubt it because I would think Google would have mentioned it, but AMD is giving hardware ray tracing to Microsoft and Sony's custom next-gen GPUs, so they could have added it to Stadia's custom GPU.
GCN Tflops are nowhere close to comparable to Nvidia Tflops. This is why an RTX 2060 (non super) outperforms the Vega64 in most titles, let alone the Vega56. 2060 is now merely mid-range, albeit with modern 'features' of questionable value.
So current cards above Vega56 :
Vega64
Vega7
1080ti
Pascal Titans
5700XT
2060
2060S
2070
2070S
2080
2080S
2080Ti
Titan RTX
By the Ampere time, they will desperately need to replace the GCN stack for Stadia, as PS5 and Scarlett will also be significantly outpacing the old tech.
NAVI on the other hand is actually getting close. A 10.7TF NAVI would wipe the floor with a 10.7TF GCN Vega.
Fwiw Football Manager 2020 was always a launch game on Stadia, no idea why it wasn't in the original 12 or if the same logic applies to the others
Thank you. The claims from anti Stadia crowd are getting more and more ridiculous. To state that Stadia is only slightly above XboxOne X is laughable.
User warned: driveby trolling
22 games at launch? Pfffff! Pathetic service! I can't believe you have to BUY the games in order to play them LMFAO! Absolutely ridiculous. With 1 exclusive to boot! Negative latency means the games will play themselves and Google will pull the service in 4 years. Who on earth is this 'product' for? I don't see the appeal of this?
Am I doing this right?
Am I doing this right?
Not to mention that developers will be able to utilize multiple GPUs.
Pretty much Era in a nutshell right now. The amount of hate that is poured over Stadia is beyond me.
I will enjoy RDR2 on settings my 1060 could never handle. I'll also look into Borderlands 3 as Sinn as it launches on Stadia.
well people are kinda ignorant when it comes to Stadia, like no doubt xbox got it beat with games but Stadia has the performance to back it up.
Xbox is competing with PS NOW, Stadia is doing something different
A lot of these games were on the releasing later in 2019 list so it's almost certain they were just sitting on them so they would have some games come later this year and not all at once.
Flops are floating point operations per second, and on a GPU that's basically the core of what they do, it's all floating point math. It's a standard measurement that is comparable on all devices, created because you couldn't compare raw clock speeds among different architectures. Where Flops has problems as measurement of GPU power is primarily when there are memory bandwidth limitations or additional features, which is why the AMD cards you are talking about don't quite match up. But Stadia's GPU, as a server-architecture GPU rather than consumer, uses HBM2 memory for 8GB of its VRAM, so bandwidth is better than all of nVidia's RTX cards. And with its 16GB total, overall memory beats out consumer video cards as well so more higher-res textures, more memory-intensive effects, or just more memory to cache things in VRAM for better performance.
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It's interesting to see the narrative to change from hating google thinly masked as concern over our streaming future, to just openly hating google.
Cool now launch a stadia home edition so I can play the games locally and stream them just when I travel.
The reason why GCN does not match its theoretical performance is not just 100% tied to thefact that it requires enormous amount of bandwidth to be "efficient" (radeon VII shows this well). It also - in general - leaves a lot of performance on the table.
Are they offering a f2p title or demos at launch? Or any kind of extended way without paying to see if the games work properly?
Which GCN are you talking about? Is it the GCN 1.5 (5.0) that's rumored to be in Stadia? In what way is it leaving performance on the table?
Edit: I just researched it to see what you were talking about, that "performance left on the table" is when running DirectX 11 games. Vega was designed to be super efficient at DX12 or Vulkan, which on PC isn't used much yet, so it gets poor performance playing those ports. But Stadia is a Vulkan machine, not a PC, with games being ported to it, so doesn't have that issue.
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Founders editions are overpriced anyway. I'll be waiting till the full launch next year to test it out personally.
All of these games were announced in a list as 'releasing before 2020' when they announced the initial 12. So within a month of launch. Looks like they were spacing out the launch window with two waves of games, now they've just nudged that second wave forward.
This isn't at all how it works.
THE REGULAR PC VEGA56 and VEGA64 ALREADY USE HBM2. It is still noticably slower per Tflop in games compared to Nvidia SKUs.
As for 16GB, the Vega7 had a full 16GB of HBM2 and only managed to moderately equal the 11GB GDDR 1080ti, despite once again, the theoretical Tflop advantage.
Further, the Navi 5700XT equals/exceeds the Vega products, and it doesn't use HBM at all. However, the Navi architecture is more efficient with 'RDNA' instead of 'GCN' design, so even though the Tflop specs look much lower than the GCN Vega predecessor, it performs as well or better, particularly per watt.
Nothing is changing the fact that Vega56 is a mid-range, somewhat long in the tooth GPU for current times, let alone going forward.
On GCN you have to match wavefront and be extremely careful with what is happening in a frame for proper CU utilisation. Not every game engine can design can do that, regardless of Vukan or DX12.
Thank you :) RDNA really has been refreshing to see, it's the best sign of life from AMD's GPU works in some time, and really does a lot better for the die size and power/heat considerations. Vega7 was pushing the envelope of what they could do even with gobs of HBM2 and 7nm process. Will be exciting to see 'Big Navi'.
Exactly. Similar issues affected their professional variants of GCN architecture products. Some titles they would equal Nvidia, others they would get destroyed.
GCN is incredibly old, and now for all practical purposes dead and buried. AMD is not going to continue R&D on it, it would be like Nvidia investing in a Fermi variant in 2020.
Stadia can (and will) update it's hardware every now and then so as to always offer high end PCs-like graphic level. That is EXACTLY the main reason to bet on Stadia instead of buying a new PC: you can be sure you won't have to update it, just pay a subscription whenever you whant to play.
The only problem I can see is not related to the processing power of the hardware, but to the list of games incluided in the service. It must improve hugely. In fact, I believe that every PC game should be compatible with Stadia. That would be the key to its success.
Agree fully on licensing should be better on Stadia. If I buy a 'Stadia' game, I should be able to also download the PC/Windows port.
As for 'better bet than PC'. Not for me, hell no. I play on 3440x1440@120Hz with Gysnc. All forms of 60hz feel absolutely worse for me. Not to mention the absolute best (local monopoly) internet speed I can get is 6mbit. Stadia would be hot garbage for my uses, no matter what they had on the server side.
It was ÂŁ120, the Chromecast Ultra is ÂŁ70 alone, Stadia Pro is ÂŁ10 a month and you get 3 months, plus you get the controller, Shadowkeep and SamSho. Not really overpriced.
Shadowkeep and SamSho are just part of the Stadia Pro sub, they're not additional value. ÂŁ70 for a dongle is extremely expensive considering how much an Xbox One S costs and will offer the same streaming capabilities. But yes you're right the Founders Edition isn't overpriced in its own right, it just includes overpriced things that bump the price up.
Seems you've made up your mind a long time ago, instead you just go into stadia threads to troll and get into arguments to try to get a 1 up over people
My expectations do not preclude interest to see how it performs under various conditions. I am trolling nobody, but the claim that a Vega56 is going to be a 'high-end PC' equivalent is not really supported by the facts of the current GPU heirarchy that exists for fall 2019. It's decidedly mid-range.
In fact, it's sort of bizarre altogether when you think about it. Navi/RDNA is already out, and is the long term replacement to the old GCN architecture going back the better part of a decade. PS5 and Scarlett will use Navi variants. The only reason I can think of to use Vega is that perhaps AMD simply had overproduced them during the mining craze, and they were available en masse for cheap, so it was a lower risk for Google. It's not a perfect theory, but the situation is strange to say the least.
I didn't say it is a better bet than PC! No way! What I meant is that Stadia will be an ALTERNATIVE to PC that will also and always show high end graphics ( or at least it is suppossed to), addressed to those people who would like to always play the newest games at a very high graphic level without bothering to update their PCs each time they start lacking enough processing power. We could refer those people as the "mainstream" public. But for those who want to have the "best of the best", not input lag at all, mods, powerful features like Gsync, Stadia is not (yet) their way to go.
I really think both approaches can coexist and each one has its pros and cons.
Agree with all of this. To be crystal clear, I'm not saying that Stadia is trash, or has no place by any means. Due to the combo of my already owning better hardware for high refresh/Ultrawide, and my caveman internet speed, for me personally all streaming is going to be disastrous, but for the right mix of needs and internet performance, it could have a place.
In fact, I wouldn't mind investing in 'hybrid' game licenses if they were offered, even for a small premium. That way I could build up a Stadia capable library in the event I get better internet options in the future. And crossplay of course. That way a buddy could visit, and one of us could use the regular PC rig, while the other joins in on a TV or laptop.
they've said before that their prices will be "competitive" with other digital storefronts, so expect them to be the same as everywhere else. which ofc is going to be a bit of a hard sell when you don't even get data on a device you own any more.
what i'm saying is, don't expect them to be cheaper because you're just streaming them. expect $60 games to cost $60.
Yeah, wasn't expecting brand new titles to not be 60 or anything, but this close to release and zero game prices is just weird.
You control it with your phone. No version of Just Dance needs camera anymore
Yes, I assume the 12 were just those that passed cert by the point they wanted to make an announcement. They were probably being super cautious as they felt announcing something and it not being there was worse than not announcing and it being there.
Obviously people are quick to jump on anything like this and twist it to shape their narrative. The amount of press that have written articles along the line of "stadia caved to pressure and added more games to the launch line-up" haven't done the most basic of research.
With press outlets this stupid, Google probably would have been better putting out an official press release explicitly saying that these were confirmed launch titles and others are likely to join once they have been certified. Many outlets are clearly so incompetent that they would be happy to blurt out an article almost verbatim from a press release, as it doesn't involve using their brain.
Google could have actually spun it into a positive for the platform, that developers are able to work on titles so close to launch and players don't have to worry about downloading day 1 patches. But Google's PR for Stadia is seemingly lacking, and that is part of the problem.