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Feep

Lead Designer, Iridium Studios
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,596
I wake up late on Wednesdays and I see a literally industry-shaking announcement.

This is absolutely impossible. So much of the current development pipeline is based on retopography, poly count budgets, draw call budgets, light baking and so on.

This just...gets rid of them.

They're gone.

Entirely.

I cannot even fathom this shit. Every developer I know is fucking losing their minds.
 

nelsonroyale

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,124
I am impressed! Massive increase in geometric density and lighting improvements are want I want the most from next gen.
 
Feb 6, 2019
468
In terms of environments, yes, CG quality. I'm curious to see what's next for character models.

Well, Devastator from Transformers 2 had 13 million polygons. Characters in The Spirits Within were around 300-500 thousand polygons. The statues in the tech demo were 33 million with 500 of them, so it should be a breeze :P.

I can easily see Square-Enix rendering entire million polygon heads of hair for all character and NPCs, and based on this tech demo it shouldn't break a sweat.
 

Deleted member 4970

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,240
I wake up late on Wednesdays and I see a literally industry-shaking announcement.

This is absolutely impossible. So much of the current development pipeline is based on retopography, poly count budgets, draw call budgets, light baking and so on.

This just...gets rid of them.

They're gone.

Entirely.

I cannot even fathom this shit. Every developer I know is fucking losing their minds.

love to hear it!
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,621
People kept talking about how SSD will get rid of load times or large worlds. But this nanite tech is a good example of what I've been saying would be the biggest notable example.

Being able to rely on the fact that data can be fetched within 2-3 seconds means you can fill up the ram with so much near scale assets that you can make the environments dense in a way that otherwise would never have been possible.
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,734
So a billion source triangles being boiled down to around 20m drawn triangles per frame...

How much memory will that use? Geometry could start matching or exceeding texture memory overhead, or at least PS4/XB1 texture RAM budgets.
 

Tyaren

Character Artist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
24,711
Well damn.

Sweeney says the PS5 is a "remarkably balanced device."

"It has an immense amount of GPU power, but also multi-order bandwidth increase in storage management. That's going to be absolutely critical," he says. "It's one thing to render everything that can fit in memory," he adds, but a much more impressive feat to render a world that "might be tens of gigabytes in size" almost instantaneously, as Sony's new console and its M.2 solid-state drive are promising.

"We've been working super close with Sony for quite a long time on storage," he says. "The storage architecture on the PS5 is far ahead of anything you can buy on anything on PC for any amount of money right now. It's going to help drive future PCs. [The PC market is] going to see this thing ship and say, 'Oh wow, SSDs are going to need to catch up with this."As for Microsoft's Xbox Series X,

Sweeney isn't saying the new Xbox won't be able to achieve something similar; both are using custom SSDs that promise blazing speeds. But he says Epic's strong relationship with Sony means the company is working more closely with the PlayStation creator than it does with Microsoft on this specific area.

This is interesting:

"Sweeney isn't saying the new Xbox won't be able to achieve something similar; both are using custom SSDs that promise blazing speeds. But he says Epic's strong relationship with Sony means the company is working more closely with the PlayStation creator than it does with Microsoft on this specific area."

Huge partnership Sony got there for next gen. It was about time Sony was also flexing their muscles a little and in the rare events they do it's always hella impressive.
 

Black_Stride

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
7,378
I wake up late on Wednesdays and I see a literally industry-shaking announcement.

This is absolutely impossible. So much of the current development pipeline is based on retopography, poly count budgets, draw call budgets, light baking and so on.

This just...gets rid of them.

They're gone.

Entirely.

I cannot even fathom this shit. Every developer I know is fucking losing their minds.

Its legit some end times shit.

People who dont have much knowledge in this area cant really understand how crazy this actually is.

As I heard them talk about it I kept thinking maybe they misspoke this cant be what I think it is. The more the spoke the more my mind was blown.

When they said they were changing the future of gaming they legit werent fucking around.

Having to wait till 2021 to get my hands on this is torture....but luckily they said transferring projects from UE4 to UE5 should be easy work.
 

Deleted member 6730

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,526
EX6m32NU0AAAnPu

UE5 Showcase in a nutshell
 

XaviConcept

Art Director for Videogames
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,895
Visually very impressive but they way theyre handwaving the MILLIONS OF POLYS VIRTUALLY is a bit worrisome, for a production team that works natively in zbrush this is potentially GREAT news as it could really, REALLY improve your pipeline (making LODs and game ready versions of sculpts takes a ton of time) but if everything is movie quality then rigging and animating are going to take a very long time ... plus, the expectation of conistent level of detail is going to be a hard precedent to set.

Their "solution" to this will be to rely on photogrammetry and libraries like Quixel because of course they would, thats a business model that benefits their partners and it is indeed to think "why should we make these cans and boxes and rocks when theres these libraries already"and thats true for a number of games, but for games that want to look more unique and less "from the shelf" it might be quite challenging to produce such a number of art assets at that level of detail.

Anyways, so far great for the AAAA houses and might be able to seep up development, I see quite the challenge for studios that arent chasing photorealism ... but then again, these are early days and hopefully theres a variety of options there. The biggest thing these big engine releases can do is trivialize production time so the artists and engineers can spend less time working on annoying, non player facing content. Potentially not having to worry about LOD's and bone counts is exciting, but theres a whole lot of things that have to go along with that to truly make it viable and exciting for a dev.
 

Dunfisch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
222
Lmao, glad to hear it seems to ease development. Now, don't replace that with hardship in some other area of development. Real talk, does it seem like development will be easier for next gen?

Well, I'm not a games developer myself, but I do a lot of 3D work, focusing on architectural visualization. There's plenty of overlap by principle, and by my knowledge a ton of hassle will be eliminated by UE5. In the most direct sense, it just removes downtime during development or, due to a lack of technical requirement, expedites the process. The latter, for example, means no more creating UV lightmaps for models. You can imagine unwrapping a plain cube into it's 6 sides - this is necessary so the engine (UE4 here) can properly bake shadows onto the cube. If you didn't do that, you'd just have a uniform increase in light-/darkness of the model after baking the light, without any defined shadows as such - happens because the engine would bake 1 pixel of shadow into the topright corner, which gets applied to the entire model.

Now imagine you need to do that for highly complicated and detailed objects, and many to boot. It doesn't eliminate UV-Unwrapping entirely, because texture artists still need that to properly paint textures onto objects without creating a huge mess. But that's the end of it, you needn't create a second UV map just for lighting. In my case, I can forego a lot of that now, since architectural objects often don't feature terribly complex textures.

Or level of detail for models, also gone now. The engine automatically scales as required, so I can just plunk in studio-quality assets without a second thought. This is a big deal, given performance constraints up until now.

Expediting results from full Global Illumination. No longer do you need to render out the lighting if you make sweeping changes to a scene. It's fully dynamic, at rendertime. No more downtime! Instant feedback at all times.

Development will find other ways to demand time, but from a technical perspective, a lot of frustration gets alleviated. This will be immensely liberating, if, IF the engine can deliver on all it promises. Fingers crossed!
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
So, games that come out using Unreal 5 just in time for the mid gen refreshes :D

From a dev perspective does this make things easier and quicker, asset and lighting wise?
 

Deleted member 64666

User requested account closure
Banned
Mar 20, 2020
1,051
I wake up late on Wednesdays and I see a literally industry-shaking announcement.

This is absolutely impossible. So much of the current development pipeline is based on retopography, poly count budgets, draw call budgets, light baking and so on.

This just...gets rid of them.

They're gone.

Entirely.

I cannot even fathom this shit. Every developer I know is fucking losing their minds.

Congratulations on finally being freed from these constraints!
 

TheZynster

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,285
lol, Geoff hyped up a tech demo......I can't stop laughing. Yes, this was definitely not E3 worthy indeed.

Jeffs record continues, so glad I didn't stay awake for this.

Sure is pretty though
 

Nintendo

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,365
This is interesting:

"Sweeney isn't saying the new Xbox won't be able to achieve something similar; both are using custom SSDs that promise blazing speeds. But he says Epic's strong relationship with Sony means the company is working more closely with the PlayStation creator than it does with Microsoft on this specific area."


Huge partnership Sony got there for next gen. It was about time Sony was also flexing their muscles a little and in the rare events they do it's always hella impressive.

Does that mean more Sony devs are moving to Unreal 5?
 

DavidDesu

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,718
Glasgow, Scotland
it's so crisp goddamn
Yeah I watched it off my Firestick 4K on my tv and you can see some film grain effect which is nice granularity to see. Even if it's not as good as coming straight from the console plugged in directly to my tv, it's still good enough image quality to get a good idea. If this is 1440p then honestly I'd be happy with that on my PS5. The race for native 4K is just so pointless.
 

Dunfisch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
222
I wake up late on Wednesdays and I see a literally industry-shaking announcement.

This is absolutely impossible. So much of the current development pipeline is based on retopography, poly count budgets, draw call budgets, light baking and so on.

This just...gets rid of them.

They're gone.

Entirely.

I cannot even fathom this shit. Every developer I know is fucking losing their minds.

I KNOW! I'm so excited, I can barely contain myself, I gotta perpetuate the cycle of technical discussion! I cannot wait to just be all like "Well gee, look at these 500 million polys, and look at that treeline with thousands of instances. I don't give a single fuck! High-res meshes ho! Retopo can go fuck itself! Good riddance to you, Mr. I gotta bake lighting for hours! See you again nevah!"

Loosing your mind about describes it.
 

bcatwilly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,483
I wake up late on Wednesdays and I see a literally industry-shaking announcement.

This is absolutely impossible. So much of the current development pipeline is based on retopography, poly count budgets, draw call budgets, light baking and so on.

This just...gets rid of them.

They're gone.

Entirely.

I cannot even fathom this shit. Every developer I know is fucking losing their minds.

It is great to see developers excited about tech such as this, but my son is worried that "nanite" tech that makes it so easy to include much higher resolution assets will pretty much mean next generation console frame rates will be stuck at 30 fps way too often again. And in fact this tech demo was 30 fps at dynamic resolution of mostly 1440p. Do you have any thoughts on whether the "nanite" tech could be a bad thing for frame rates?
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,295
This is a demo comprised of several game changers for game development as a whole that could change the way games are made forever....that is much more hype than 6-10 minute scripted and rehearsed showcases. Which this technically is, but what's important are the details of how it was made.
 

AuthenticM

Son Altesse Sérénissime
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,005
I wake up late on Wednesdays and I see a literally industry-shaking announcement.

This is absolutely impossible. So much of the current development pipeline is based on retopography, poly count budgets, draw call budgets, light baking and so on.

This just...gets rid of them.

They're gone.

Entirely.

I cannot even fathom this shit. Every developer I know is fucking losing their minds.
This is very exciting to read. Probably more than watching the tech demo itself.
 

criteriondog

I like the chili style
Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,068
I wake up late on Wednesdays and I see a literally industry-shaking announcement.

This is absolutely impossible. So much of the current development pipeline is based on retopography, poly count budgets, draw call budgets, light baking and so on.

This just...gets rid of them.

They're gone.

Entirely.

I cannot even fathom this shit. Every developer I know is fucking losing their minds.
I don't know much at all of game development, but can you further explain how mind bending this is to an average gamer like me? :)
I don't understand a lot of this, but I am SUPER excited for all the possibilities, creativity and beauty nextgen will bring!
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
I wake up late on Wednesdays and I see a literally industry-shaking announcement.

This is absolutely impossible. So much of the current development pipeline is based on retopography, poly count budgets, draw call budgets, light baking and so on.

This just...gets rid of them.

They're gone.

Entirely.

I cannot even fathom this shit. Every developer I know is fucking losing their minds.


HOLY FUCKING SHIT THEY PERFECTED EVERYTHING!?

Its calculating light, shadows, physics, even ai all differently and its creating lossless runtime full poly 800k textures and several billion Count poly renders all with dynamic global illumination and advanced ai taking place at the same time!?

I think I just saw 4 years of college tips and tricks become completely irrelevant with all this.

I dont have to bake models or use low poly versions or model swap at different draw distance I can use full poly zbrush models and render several million polys like it's nothing in real time. Hell i can have 500 instances of that model along with an entire cave backdrop all doing crazy lighting too.

Dont wanna animate every single animation? Advanced kinematic ai will take your climb animation and dynamically adjust it on the fly realistically to interact with the environment its climbing on so it reaches out to or avoids all the little branches or rocks it touches. Itll even make your character push doors open that it bumps into or change their pose yo pass through narrow areas like in real life. HA! Fuck you euphoria physics engine and your ai promises of 2 decades that never panned out this shit is happening now finally!

This is a serious leap forward. Even more than the exciting but sketchy moments we had seeing unlimited voxel rendering by using math that would tell things to only render what would be visible on the screen on the fly. Unlimited voxel rendering got nothing on this poly count with those levels of texture detail.

Hello next gen. I'm sold. This shit used to take hours to render 30 seconds of footage doing all that for pre render shit. Now we doin it at runtime thanks to an engine. This actually did live up to the hype that ps5 and next gen would be as big of a leap for games as when mario went mario 64.


Getting these sorts of posts from developers on here is wild. Sounds like you guys are even more hyped over this demo than your average consumer or gamer lol.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,583
I've just thought that this tears up the rule book for level designers. No longer do you constantly have to worry about every potential sight-line a player could have, nor do you have to worry about balancing levels of detail. You can make the level you want to make and everything will just work*.

*Well there probably has to be a few levers you can tweak so it prefers removing geometry from walls before a hero asset, but that's still a lot less work than before.
 

sleepr

Banned for misusing pronouns feature
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,965
Holy fucking shit now that's what I call a next-gen showing. I was in awe during the whole video but when she goes outside... omg.
 

Feep

Lead Designer, Iridium Studios
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,596
It is great to see developers excited about tech such as this, but my son is worried that "nanite" tech that makes it so easy to include much higher resolution assets will pretty much mean next generation console frame rates will be stuck at 30 fps way too often again. And in fact this tech demo was 30 fps at dynamic resolution of mostly 1440p. Do you have any thoughts on whether the "nanite" tech could be a bad thing for frame rates?
It's impossible to know exactly how the tools will work, but I imagine that because the geometry is being virtualized, hitting a target framerate means telling Nanite to generate fewer triangles on screen from the original geometry. There's still likely significant overhead that doesn't change from Nanite, but fewer triangles will be rendered which means less work for the GPU. Same with lighting to some extent, there are numerous quality settings involved.

However, your son is correct in that 30 FPS isn't going away any time soon. If you can make something look better while still maintaining a "cinematic" frame rate, devs and consumers alike are going to be in for it.
 

Dark Ninja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,070
I did an audible cheer when he mentioned no lightmaps its a pain in the ass on games that require precise lightmap creation. I don't want others to suffer as I have. Interesting to see if they can get transparency to be cheaper somehow just another huge problem with current development.
 

Feep

Lead Designer, Iridium Studios
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,596
If you're looking at it that way then sure you could say most stuff at GDC is more important than E3 announcements. The tons of middleware and creative tools that make games what they are, in addition to engines like UE5 and Unity.
That's entirely correct.
 

bounchfx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,654
Muricas
Just finished the video. That was batshit fucking insane. Everything I could hope from next gen really. Curious to see more animation stuff, its the only thing I wasn't completely blown away by but it was a rather small sample and clearly not the focus

but the lighting? full real time GI? FUck yes
and the nanite? What the fuck? Like I can't even fathom this. Will I just be able to import my zbrush meshes willy nilly into the engine? I don't understand how they're doing this. Do triangles matter at all? Is it real-time decimating them? Do we need to care about them at ALL anymore? What the fuck? Like I'm legit shook, been making art for games for 15 years and now im like left with my jaw wide open. Cannot wait to play with this engine. We just officially entered the gen where movies are just going to be made in UE5 because it's easier and will look the same to a lot of people.

This is exactly the type of video I was hoping to see from next gen and I guess I'm not surprised at all that it's Epic once again dropping that hot hot heat. goddam. Hype. And the ps5 name drops, MS is gonna have to show that they can deliver on par. This gen just got wild. HYPE!
 

Landford

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,678
Its ok to not know things and not talk about it.

This changes game development as a whole. It cuts down exponentially on development times since you can import raw assets and make them work without putting them on a blender until the framerate doesnt sink.
 

Kaako

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,736
Best part about this thread is the reactions from the devs indie & AAA. Please do pay very close attention to the technical developer commentary when watching the Vimeo 4K version. Some amazing stuff to get super fucking excited about.