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Unpaid internships should be illegal
- Thread starter BAD
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DC is a weird but useful example because Unpaid interning at a politician's office is something that the children of wealthy people - often with other familial or friendship connections to that politician— can afford to do and who are disproportionately hired from outrageously expensive colleges. Guess what kind of thing that propagates and amplifies?
hint: it's not a nonpartisan nepotism free marketplace of conflicting ideas and healthy bidirectional disagreement.
there's the soft exploitation of old boy networks propagating themselves. That's how the system works in Hollywood and politics and other elite systems. Keeps the hoi polloi at bay.
and don't forget this picture next time someone tries to shut down the "staying home because my candidate didn't win " conversation using race as a "both sides" reason.
hint: it's not a nonpartisan nepotism free marketplace of conflicting ideas and healthy bidirectional disagreement.
there's the soft exploitation of old boy networks propagating themselves. That's how the system works in Hollywood and politics and other elite systems. Keeps the hoi polloi at bay.
and don't forget this picture next time someone tries to shut down the "staying home because my candidate didn't win " conversation using race as a "both sides" reason.
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Thank you for reminding me I had to do a six month long unpaid internship to get my high school diploma.
Sure, I was trying to say that international students tend to willingly fall prey to unpaid internships or more exploitative job environments simply to stop the clock, not that only the US is strict when it comes to visa issues. (though I don't know if other countries give as small a time limit as 3 months)
I fucking hate them. I'm not in the US and my degree established that I had to do three internships: one for sixty hours in a understand corporate social responsibility, a second one for 2-3 months and the final one for 6 months. All while paying the university for the credits. A fucking scam, let me tell you.
I had some offers from good places for the longer internships where they just gave you lunch, that's it. I discarded them immediately, if I was going to work six months at least I wanted to get paid, even if it was far cheaper than what I should have been paid.
I had some offers from good places for the longer internships where they just gave you lunch, that's it. I discarded them immediately, if I was going to work six months at least I wanted to get paid, even if it was far cheaper than what I should have been paid.
Just wanted to bump this and say thanks for posting this.DC is a weird but useful example because Unpaid interning at a politician's office is something that the children of wealthy people - often with other familial or friendship connections to that politician— can afford to do and who are disproportionately hired from outrageously expensive colleges. Guess what kind of thing that propagates and amplifies?
hint: it's not a nonpartisan nepotism free marketplace of conflicting ideas and healthy bidirectional disagreement.
there's the soft exploitation of old boy networks propagating themselves. That's how the system works in Hollywood and politics and other elite systems. Keeps the hoi polloi at bay.
and don't forget this picture next time someone tries to shut down the "staying home because my candidate didn't win " conversation using race as a "both sides" reason.
It is even more bizarre to me that the UN does exactly the same thing given their mission statement/s. All of their internships are unpaid (excepting a few subsidiary orgs), situated in some of the most expensive cities in the world - Vienna, Geneva and New York, and most are 6 months. I understand that their hands are tied by their constituent countries but it still means that their interns are disproportionately wealthy Ivy Leaguers and/or from *insert prestigious European institution here*. They also require masters degrees at a minimum for most internships.
Internships also happen to be virtually the only path into the UN professional service apart from the YPP program (which is limited by country quotas) because the organisation is rife with bureaucracy and nepotism.
Did she not go to school 5 days a week as well? How is teaching 6 hours a day different than going to classes 6 hours a day?
Well considering she's doing work right now that adults get paid for? She's also in classes to actually graduate and has to write and do reports/exercises on her student teaching as well.
Do you not see the difference in teaching as an adult and going to school as a child and why one is paid and the other is not and is compulsory?
They're not. So they should get paid for their work when they do work outside of normal classwork/homework. Teaching for 6 hours a day for 5 days a week goes beyond normal classwork and is straight up a paid profession.
In Engineering unpaid internships don't exist anymore, but the school still wants it's cut of your paycheck, that shit should be illegal too because at least at my school, they actively blocked me from getting internships because I wasn't gonna pay them.
It all worked out in the end though as I had a full time job already lined up before I even graduated. And those donation letters go straight to the trash.
It all worked out in the end though as I had a full time job already lined up before I even graduated. And those donation letters go straight to the trash.
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If you work you get paid.
In truth, you should be paid to go to university (no strings attached) as well.
Oh well, broken society.
In truth, you should be paid to go to university (no strings attached) as well.
Oh well, broken society.
Even worse is when your school makes you pay for the credit. So to get experience, you have to spend over $1000. Fucking bullshit.
Better to get a part time job, at least in my experience.
Better to get a part time job, at least in my experience.
So you think it's fair that the college student has to pay 1000+ dollars for the credit in order to get the internship while interning? You don't think that at very least the company hiring them should pay the credits in return of not paying them?
In the US, it is illegal for an unpaid intern to do work that generates substantial income for the company. Unpaid interns are not supposed to do real work for the company, the intern is supposed to be the one getting the most benefit out of the deal. If an intern is doing the same (or more) work that a real employee would, then that's when it crosses the line.
...not that that keeps companies from exploiting interns, how many unpaid interns will have the resources or desire to take a company to court? Also, government service and non-profits aren't bound by that rule.
Wait what, did you mean to quote someone else? I've never advocated for unpaid internships in this thread, certainly not ones where you have to pay the credits for lol
I have a story, I interned for a place once and was unpaid. I later found out that a person there who was a year younger than me was getting paid while interning. I was pretty pissed off, this person would fall asleep on the job all the time. Once my internship was done I never looked back at that place. Was a good experience, but I felt like for how much work I did for the company, it was shitty to not get paid at all. I programmed like 60+ cameras and set up a lot of camera systems. I had to cut the hours of my normal part time job to even take the internship.
Then once you finish, they make you pay $1000+ for your credits. Bullshit.
Then once you finish, they make you pay $1000+ for your credits. Bullshit.
I fail to see the difference of a college student not getting paid to learn in class and a college student not getting paid to learn in the field. I myself had an internship in college needed to graduate and my wife is a grade school teacher who also had to student teach and who often times has a student teacher in her classroom.
Because the student teaching is in addition to her classes. If you don't think there's an issue with someone performing a paid position for a ~40 hour work week while not getting compensated in any way just because they're new in the field and they need it to graduate idk what to tell you. That's peak exploitation.
My girlfriend is in school to be a dietitian and she has to have a year of an internship at the end and most of then are unpaid. Which means I may have to support both of us for an entire year.... What if she was on her own? Is she just not supposed to get the degree? This is insanity.
At work we've been making a very conscious effort to ensure our internships are as educational as possible and have decided against some internships because we didn't feel confident the sufficiently beneficial for them, which was a tough decision. We provide housing and whatnot but I don't think anyone will be happy with the arrangement until we're able to secure funding for some kind of proper stipend.
They're voluntary. Feel free to apply for an actual paid position.
That being said I'm of the opinion that internships should be practical hands-on experience and educational/informative for the applicant.
I understand where the sentiment is coming from, too many companies look at it as free 'low-skill' or 'entry level' labor. It should be something mutually beneficial.
Don't underestimate a good internship. You can develop contacts that benefit you later in your career.
That being said I'm of the opinion that internships should be practical hands-on experience and educational/informative for the applicant.
I understand where the sentiment is coming from, too many companies look at it as free 'low-skill' or 'entry level' labor. It should be something mutually beneficial.
Don't underestimate a good internship. You can develop contacts that benefit you later in your career.
Life is full of choices, lol.
This is one of those things where I think a person should be less concerned about how a thing should be in an ideal world and understand how it is and just get it done.
An actual internship will make the interns actually work on actual things. So they should get an actual pay.
I've worked as a unpaid intern for both a political campaign and at my county's solicitor general's office. Both were fun experiences but almost financially broke me. During my solicitor general's internship I was doing that, working at my University, and delivery driving for pizza hut. If University paid better or the internship paid at all I wouldn't have to be a fucking pizza delivery driver. So yes internships should pay. Anyone that says no can piss off.
Unpaid internships ARE illegal if you are doing actual work. By law the company is required to pay you if you do actual work for them.
They aren't new in the field. They aren't yet in the field, hence, the internship to make sure they have the necessary skills and want to even be in the field. And if you think your friend is doing 100% of the work and being exploited while the normal teacher is sitting on her ass doing nothing, I have a bridge to sell you.
I had one of my internships while working as a delivery driver too and they didn't understand that I had other commitments at all despite telling them that before they hired me. Eventually quit the pizza place because they would schedule me for 60 hour work weeks 😑
Lol that definitely doesn't happen. I've done plenty of work as a intern and didn't get paid shit for it.
No they're working in the field. They're new in it but they're in the field. I didn't say they're doing 100% of the work but they're still doing a lot just with the time commitment alone and deserve to be paid for their time and effort.
Especially since she does actually teach some classes alone.
I mean you don't think people deserve to be paid for entry-level work, that's fine. I disagree.
You're twisting what I'm saying. I'm saying a college student who needs to intern to graduate shouldn't be paid. It's no different than going to class 40 hours a week, doing homework, studying for finals, etc. College students dont get paid for any of that. It's not entry level work.
They aren't hired by the school. They aren't even qualified to be teachers since they didn't graduate and she sure as shit shouldn't be left alone in the class. That seems like an oversight by that school and a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Teaching the class alone i.e. there's a teacher in the back of the class grading but otherwise staying silent.
But again this is on top of classes and finals and all of that. It's not simply an extension of what being a regular student entails.
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You are a bootlicking fool.
I obviously don't know her particular situation, but I personally interned 40 hours a week for probably 3 months. I didn't have to go to class. I did have to submit weekly reports via email. I'm not a teacher. My wife, who is a teacher, didn't have to go to class and intern 40 hours a week.
So obviously not every case is similar. But it's probably wise to research a school's curriculum before choosing where to go to make sure it's doable.
In Canada (specifically Ontario), most employers get tax breaks but in return they have to pay university students when they are interning AFAIK.
But they don't pay them well for entry level. It's usually $16/hr for data analysts in companies like RBC or TD which is just barely above minimum wage. Should be a bit higher.
But they don't pay them well for entry level. It's usually $16/hr for data analysts in companies like RBC or TD which is just barely above minimum wage. Should be a bit higher.
The laws should be changed for sure, and so should legally underpaying workers just because tipping is a thing. Pure exploitation.
At least in the US its illegal to be unpaid if you are doing things that will show up in the commercial aspect of the business. Ie: art that is used in a game etc. If these people don;t report the place they were interning at, then nothing will change.
ah well she's a jail officer. as for reporting employers, not gonna happen in the US. we are taught from pre-school to worship "job creators"
Unfortunatelly as far I know in her field, you used to basically have to be born into the profession, or know somebody to get in. Internships are relatively new to corrections.