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Aug 2, 2018
8
MX and ASOD are saying hearts give way to darkness so that's consistent

MX seems to be on that's a bad thing so purge the people from the world and ASOD just thinks darkness is the true nature of man and loves it.

They both agree that darkness comes from hearts, true.

But still, MX ultimately wants light, and ASOD ultimately wants darkness, or so he claims in KH1. Their goals are opposed, but they're supposed to be working together. If ASOD defeated Sora in KH1, and all worlds were consumed by darkness, MX's plan to have "an empty world, pure and bright" would be ruined.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,433
Okay guys, maybe I forgot things but in KH2 Xenmas wanted Kingdom Hearts, because he wanted to regain his heart, but in DDD it is brought up by him that nobodies can always grow back new hearts. Did he always knew this, and was just fooling the organization the whole time or did he learned it after meeting his past self.

He was playing the Organization. He might not have known they can't get new hearts (yet), but he didn't really care either way, he just wanted its power for himself.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,179
Terra coming back in his BBS age doesn't make sense, since he aged as Apprentice Xehanrot (which should have been how he looked like). But the icing on the cake was Mickey shouting "he is the 13th Darkness!" when Xehanort already stated in 3D that he had Terra under his control, and we know for a fact that Xion was indeed the 13th Darkness and Sora's replacement.

My guess is when Xehanort/Terra recompleted they split and came back as they were when they first came together, but Xehanort's influence remained in Terra even though his actual soul was in his original body.
 

ZangBa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,040
I'm confused about the Terranort talk. I assumed it was a time displaced version of Terranort before the amnesia, so basically immediately after possessing Terra's body. The time travel rules are pretty ridiculous so I didn't think much of it. Terra wouldn't have aged in this case, of course what I didn't understand is how Terra actually gets to stay in the present since technically he's time displaced too and the actual current day Terra would be dead I think? IIRC Ansem SoD "dies" and that's when he gets his time travel ability, which he uses in that moment of death to give the power to YX, which is ridiculous and also why I didn't have trouble believing Terranort was that specific moment of time displaced.

So current day Terra should be dead but the game had to have a happy ending for everyone so... don't know why they didn't just use Lingering Will for this to be honest, would have made more sense.
 

SolVanderlyn

I love pineapple on pizza!
Member
Oct 28, 2017
13,498
Earth, 21st Century
I feel like with MX back, and Apprentice Xehanort/Terranort also back, Xemnas would have very little remaining of Terra. The amount of sheer Xehanort present at any given time would give him easy sway towards his Xehanort side.

That's my head-canon, anyway. He was pulled from around-KH2 era and instructed by his more complete self to do a very specific thing, so why wouldn't he? Xemnas was a mess by comparison to MX. He was missing some memories and had identity issues. Then his OG self comes along and tells him exactly what's going down. Makes sense he'd do it with little complaints.
 

Delaney

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,217
I'm just remembering all the interviews post-KH3D asking Nomura how Vanitas exactly came back if there were no modifications to Ven's heart all this time and what was the reason Xehanort came back as an old dude again instead of Terra. "You'll see in KH3!". Well I must have been blind.
 

Winston1

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,095
So, I'm confused about the conflicting motivations of Master Xehanort, AnsemSoD, and Xemnas.

We learn that Master Xehanort actually does NOT like darkness, and is upset about how much darkness exists. His whole goal is to restart the world, so that there's a chance of creating a world filled with light instead.

For one, that seems to contradict his Xehanort Reports and his conversation with Eraqus in BBS, where he wants (1) darkness and light to be balanced, and (2) to restart the Keyblade War out of scientific curiousity.

Putting that aside, why does AnsemSoD, his heartless, love darkness? Why does he want to open the door to darkness (which is... also a kind of Kingdom Hearts?) and swallow all the worlds in darkness? Why does he believe "darkness is the heart's true nature"?

Especially if AnsemSoD is actually working for Master Xehanort, and this is all part of his time travel scheme to get seven lights to fight thirteen darknesses sometime later. Why would part of that plan be "pretend to love darkness and try to cover the world in it, but actually our goal is to make a world of light"?

Furthermore, why did either AnsemSoD or Xemnas try find or create a Kingdom Hearts, when they knew they could not acquire the real Kingdom Hearts without the 7 lights and 13 darknesses fighting to create the χ-blade?

AnsemSoD's plan directly works against Master Xehanort's plan of restarting the world, and Xemnas's plan is inconsequential since Nobodies can grow hearts and his fake KH can't restart the world.
In the case of Ansem SoD, I could believe that turning into a heartless simply changed his ideals, since the heartless thrive on darkness.
 

Carpathia

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,199
Getting real sick of unchained key spreading through the storyline like a virus


I have to agee with this, UX plays such a big role in this game that the least think they could have done is make a summary of the story inside KHIII. I wonder how confused people is going to be with all this stuff if they are not up to date with the lore.
 

Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
I'm just remembering all the interviews post-KH3D asking Nomura how Vanitas exactly came back if there were no modifications to Ven's heart all this time and what was the reason Xehanort came back as an old dude again instead of Terra. "You'll see in KH3!". Well I must have been blind.

The Vanitas thing was neatly answered.

He reconstructed himself using the leftover Unversed when they stumbled upon Monstropolis and had them father negativd energy to weave back his heart.
 

Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
I'm confused about the Terranort talk. I assumed it was a time displaced version of Terranort before the amnesia, so basically immediately after possessing Terra's body. The time travel rules are pretty ridiculous so I didn't think much of it. Terra wouldn't have aged in this case, of course what I didn't understand is how Terra actually gets to stay in the present since technically he's time displaced too and the actual current day Terra would be dead I think? IIRC Ansem SoD "dies" and that's when he gets his time travel ability, which he uses in that moment of death to give the power to YX, which is ridiculous and also why I didn't have trouble believing Terranort was that specific moment of time displaced.

So current day Terra should be dead but the game had to have a happy ending for everyone so... don't know why they didn't just use Lingering Will for this to be honest, would have made more sense.

The people who are time displaced have to travel to the future as hearts per the law of timetravel as long as a version of themselves exist in that world.

So Terranort could exist at the same time as MX if Terranort gave up uis heart to travel to the future and into a waiting replica body.

This would mean Terra is inside a replica version of himself same as Roxas.
 

Delaney

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,217
The Vanitas thing was neatly answered.

He reconstructed himself using the leftover Unversed when they stumbled upon Monstropolis and had them father negativd energy to weave back his heart.

But the implication during BBS' ending is that Vanitas and Ven were reunited again (forging the x-blade), and it was Ven's internal clash against him that made his heart fracture and seek refuge in Sora.
 

ZangBa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,040
The people who are time displaced have to travel to the future as hearts per the law of timetravel as long as a version of themselves exist in that world.

So Terranort could exist at the same time as MX if Terranort gave up uis heart to travel to the future and into a waiting replica body.

This would mean Terra is inside a replica version of himself same as Roxas.

Do the replica possessed bodies not have a time limit like at the end of DDD when they were all sent back? I assumed MX came back when Xemnas was defeated and not Terranort because I didn't think a time displaced version of him would be the leader.
 

Mailbox

Member
Oct 30, 2017
561
Do the replica possessed bodies not have a time limit like at the end of DDD when they were all sent back? I assumed MX came back when Xemnas was defeated and not Terranort because I didn't think a time displaced version of him would be the leader.
Someone earlier in the thread suggested that maybe both of them came back after Xemnas' defeat since both of them had the same conditions met. Both MX's heartless (ASOD) and Terra's (Guardian) were defeated followed by a (no)body that they "both inhabited" while they were human.

The suggestion of why terra is still terranort in three was that MX still had his taint in terra or some such.

Which, honestly, make internal logical sense in the story and is a piece of headcanon that i personally really like.
 

AwakenedCloud

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,815
Two things

1. Is the girl that Isa and Lea are searching for is a character who hasn't been introduced to us yet? There's not that many women in the OC Kingdom Hearts universe, and none of the ones we know fit that role into that time period.
2. Same goes for the friend of the second spirit you talk to in the final world? She mentions that she's waiting for someone and whispers it in Sora's ear, but the player couldn't hear. At first I thought it was Xion referring to Roxas, but I can only assume that Xion was alive and with the organization at that point.
 

Imran

Member
Oct 24, 2017
6,552
The thing about KH3's plot is it kind of has no plot. It has a story! Things get wrapped up in it! But there's very little actual movement. The closest thing is "We should rescue Aqua and Ven" -> "Hey we rescued them." The rest of the game is just events happening around the periphery until the end game.
 

Nightengale

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,708
Malaysia
Two things

1. Is the girl that Isa and Lea are searching for is a character who hasn't been introduced to us yet? There's not that many women in the OC Kingdom Hearts universe, and none of the ones we know fit that role into that time period.
2. Same goes for the friend of the second spirit you talk to in the final world? She mentions that she's waiting for someone and whispers it in Sora's ear, but the player couldn't hear. At first I thought it was Xion referring to Roxas, but I can only assume that Xion was alive and with the organization at that point.

The secret report states that the mysterious girl comes from the age of fairy tales, which means she's one of the UnionX characters.
 

Voltt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,499
Two things

1. Is the girl that Isa and Lea are searching for is a character who hasn't been introduced to us yet? There's not that many women in the OC Kingdom Hearts universe, and none of the ones we know fit that role into that time period.
2. Same goes for the friend of the second spirit you talk to in the final world? She mentions that she's waiting for someone and whispers it in Sora's ear, but the player couldn't hear. At first I thought it was Xion referring to Roxas, but I can only assume that Xion was alive and with the organization at that point.
1. It's either Skuld or Ava. Probably Skuld.
2. That's definitely Strelitzia.
 

Mailbox

Member
Oct 30, 2017
561
Edit: I know everyone is pissy about how much set up is in kh3, but i actually really really am happy that nomura is seting up everything for next plotline right now. KH's biggest problem is that nothing was initially set up so everything felt disjointed and just going along. But now we already have the following:

Who are our bad guys
Who is the main BIG BAD
What are the main mystories
What are the maguffins
What is the backstory for each main player

So basically what i'm saying is, I expect the next arc to be MUCH smaller and much less complicated. No timetravel BS (though worldlines are gonna be an interesting hurdle to get through lol), No multi-selves, no insanity. Everything is set up now, so I suspect that the next arc will be 2-3 games in length and not 7 games.

Two things

1. Is the girl that Isa and Lea are searching for is a character who hasn't been introduced to us yet? There's not that many women in the OC Kingdom Hearts universe, and none of the ones we know fit that role into that time period.
2. Same goes for the friend of the second spirit you talk to in the final world? She mentions that she's waiting for someone and whispers it in Sora's ear, but the player couldn't hear. At first I thought it was Xion referring to Roxas, but I can only assume that Xion was alive and with the organization at that point.
1. Probably, but we don't know absolutely yet. The leading theory is Skuld b/c the game references them as a teenager (Ava is clearly an adult) and someone from the age of the lost masters. (there are a lot more women than you'd think. Unchained X basically doubled the female cast lol)
2. I don't think anyone has a clear answer for this one. Leading feeling is Strelitzia with the name being probably Lauriam.

These two setup for the next arc
 
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Imran

Member
Oct 24, 2017
6,552
As someone that played through all the console games on the collections before KH3, I was pretty annoyed with how much stuff I still missed in the game. The Union stuff didn't feel like fun new mysteries, it felt like there was a secret other story that I had to read a Wiki to get.
 

SolVanderlyn

I love pineapple on pizza!
Member
Oct 28, 2017
13,498
Earth, 21st Century
Laurium/Marluxia is gonna be a major player going forward. I wanna see him and Ventus interact more.

As someone that played through all the console games on the collections before KH3, I was pretty annoyed with how much stuff I still missed in the game. The Union stuff didn't feel like fun new mysteries, it felt like there was a secret other story that I had to read a Wiki to get.
They should definitely remake Union X into a movie at the least. Back Cover was a nice ADDENDUM to it but didn't do much to explain it by itself.
 

Nightengale

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,708
Malaysia
As someone that played through all the console games on the collections before KH3, I was pretty annoyed with how much stuff I still missed in the game. The Union stuff didn't feel like fun new mysteries, it felt like there was a secret other story that I had to read a Wiki to get.

Honestly within the context of the actual story you're not supposed to have any clues to figure out who mysterious girl X is whereas when it comes to the box, that remains a huge mystery even to UX players and that's not expected to be resolved within UX.

Personally I've enjoyed the inclusion of the UX stuff in KH3 as a sequel setup because there's a sense of mystery there even if you have mobile knowledge and it's only further amplified if you have none of it.
 

Imran

Member
Oct 24, 2017
6,552
Honestly within the context of the actual story you're not supposed to have any clues to figure out who mysterious girl X is whereas when it comes to the box, that remains a huge mystery even to UX players and that's not expected to be resolved within UX.

Personally I've enjoyed the inclusion of the UX stuff in KH3 as a sequel setup because there's a sense of mystery there even if you have mobile knowledge and it's only further amplified if you have none of it.
The only ones that really did bother me were Chrithy, specifically in the ending, and the actual dude that is like "Hey do you need help" in the Keyblade graveyard
 

Mailbox

Member
Oct 30, 2017
561
The only ones that really did bother me were Chrithy, specifically in the ending, and the actual dude that is like "Hey do you need help" in the Keyblade graveyard
tbf Ephemer was in X-backcover and even then, you can extrapolate that he was a keyblader from that era who isn't around anymore.
nothing deeper is really needed for that scene.
 

ZangBa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,040
This cutscene from Re:coded makes it clear that Master Xehanort comes back after Ansem and Xemnas were defeated, but nothing about Terranort. I think only MX came back and Terranort was definitely from the past.
 

kayos90

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,682
The thing about KH3's plot is it kind of has no plot. It has a story! Things get wrapped up in it! But there's very little actual movement. The closest thing is "We should rescue Aqua and Ven" -> "Hey we rescued them." The rest of the game is just events happening around the periphery until the end game.

This is exactly how I felt.
 

Mailbox

Member
Oct 30, 2017
561
This cutscene from Re:coded makes it clear that Master Xehanort comes back after Ansem and Xemnas were defeated, but nothing about Terranort. I think only MX came back and Terranort was definitely from the past.


Yeah, idk.
At that point neither character clued in on where Terra was period (ie, they didn't know that MX was possessing Terra at the time) and going by the rules, The heart becoming free and the body being vanquished returns the whole still fits with Terra. Which also make him becoming the 13th member make some sense.

I'm going with not-from-the-past.
 

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
18,989
One thing I don't get is why is no name important?

I mean I understand why it's important to the Master of Masters, but why is it important to Xehanort?
 

ZangBa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,040
Yeah, idk.
At that point neither character clued in on where Terra was period (ie, they didn't know that MX was possessing Terra at the time) and going by the rules, The heart becoming free and the body being vanquished returns the whole still fits with Terra. Which also make him becoming the 13th member make some sense.

I'm going with not-from-the-past.

Can't say you are wrong. Game needs that FM treatment to clear up all this nonsense.
 

Nightengale

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,708
Malaysia
Honestly my gut feel tells me Ephemer is the third heart inside Sora. ( yes I understand how the references to that heart practically screams Xion and it makes no sense for ephemer to enter Sora's heart in the timeline around KH2)
 

FiXalaS

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,569
Kuwait.
Actually I feel like 2.8 is a big KH3 component. Dream Drop Distance, 0.2, and Back Cover all have KH3 meat while KH3 itself is like the ending of all that meat.

It's heavily dependent on the bridge/side games, and I think a lot of its story was told in 2.8. We knew that Kairi and Lea would train, and we knew Riku and Mickey would go to RoD to search for Aqua. Real advancements of the story happen when Sora reaches the RoD and Vexen gives Ienzo a vessel.

dunno why it was "show what has been told" for 3/4th of the game.
 

Z-Beat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,831
Honestly my gut feel tells me Ephemer is the third heart inside Sora. ( yes I understand how the references to that heart practically screams Xion and it makes no sense for ephemer to enter Sora's heart in the timeline around KH2)
As far as those characters are concerned I'm only adamant about Skuld being the one Axel and Saix were looking for.
 

Rellyrell28

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,881
Aqua: "You've seen me weak for far too long. Time for me to show what I can do."

*whoops Vantitas' ass in battle*

*immediately gets knocked out in following cutscene*

Nomura why.
You make it seem like he just straight up strikes her down to knock her out. Vanitas literally tried to attack Ven because he lost that fight and got Aqua the blast meant for him. What happened there made sense.
 

Balfour

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,539
You make it seem like he just straight up strikes her down to knock her out. Vanitas literally tried to attack Ven because he lost that fight and got Aqua the blast meant for him. What happened there made sense.

6e58ef6a97474d18cb448c9028eeca2a.gif
 

Tetsujin

Unshakable Resolve
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,463
Germany
This cutscene from Re:coded makes it clear that Master Xehanort comes back after Ansem and Xemnas were defeated, but nothing about Terranort. I think only MX came back and Terranort was definitely from the past.

Terranort couldn't have been from the past though. The time travelling 'norts all eventually return to their time. Terra stops being the Guardian here though meaning that Terranort would go back and not have him anymore, which would change the timeline since Ansem obviously used the Guardian still.
 

scooper

Member
Jan 20, 2019
139
ahhh so i just finished arendelle!! i don't really have anything insightful to say about it cuz it was as stupid and terrible as everyone has been making it out to be but what I DO wanna say is that donald mentioned daisy!!!!!!!!!!! the best character in the franchise has been alluded to she has not been forgotten!!!!!!! the true master of masters y'all god is not dead!!!!!!!! she is surely alive!!!!!!!!!!
tenor.gif
 

Orion

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,763
You make it seem like he just straight up strikes her down to knock her out. Vanitas literally tried to attack Ven because he lost that fight and got Aqua the blast meant for him. What happened there made sense.

I get why it happened I just found it ironic that after Aqua literally expressing her frustration with looking weak and getting a hype ass battle she... still ended up having to be saved. I still liked the scene and it gave Ventus a nice dramatic entrance, I just found it amusing.

I was really glad to get to fight as Aqua again though, even if it was just for one battle. I want another Aqua game tbh... Aqua and Kairi training adventure with sidekicks Minnie and Daisy when?
 

SolVanderlyn

I love pineapple on pizza!
Member
Oct 28, 2017
13,498
Earth, 21st Century
I get why it happened I just found it ironic that after Aqua literally expressing her frustration with looking weak and getting a hype ass battle she... still ended up having to be saved. I still liked the scene and it gave Ventus a nice dramatic entrance, I just found it amusing.

I was really glad to get to fight as Aqua again though, even if it was just for one battle. I want another Aqua game tbh... Aqua and Kairi training adventure with sidekicks Minnie and Daisy when?
It was a mutual saving. Aqua saved Ven and then Ven saved Aqua.

I never got the implication that she was weak in that scene, more that Vanitas is a slippery, underhanded bastard who couldn't win in a fair fight.
 

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
18,989
My issue with that scene is it makes Aqua look dumb. I understand the context of the scene. I just hate how it was done.

Same thing with Sora protecting Kairi from Terranort.
 

Deleted member 283

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,288
The thing about KH3's plot is it kind of has no plot. It has a story! Things get wrapped up in it! But there's very little actual movement. The closest thing is "We should rescue Aqua and Ven" -> "Hey we rescued them." The rest of the game is just events happening around the periphery until the end game.
Yeah, giving it some time to sit, this is definitely one of my biggest issues with KH3: that, after DDD, we knew pretty much everything would happen in KH3, and that's pretty much exactly what happened, with very few actual twists along the way. Like, we knew that 13 darknesses and 7 lights would be gathered for a final confrontation with Master Xehanort at the Keyblade Graveyard to summon Kingdom Hearts, and indeed that happened. And along the way, it was pretty likely that Ven and Terra and company would be saved, and that they would find some way of bringing characters like Roxas and Xion and Naminé back, and they were. We knew what all of the broad strokes would be and they happened in turn, is what I'm getting at, with little deviation.

It just felt like going through the moments to finally resolve the stuff that DDD and the other games set up, and that's it. Not much in the way of unexpected twists or to make it even worse even character developments or character arcs or anything really, just checking stuff off a list and moving onto the next thing.

And to be clear, before someone says it, yes, there were twists as in stuff like Xigbar being Luxu. But that's just shoved in the epilogue and is more setting up the next games than something that KH3 did much with itself. There's nothing like KH2 starting off with Roxas and who is that guy and going through all that, or it turning out that Ansem the Wise was his own character and that's who DiZ was in CoM, and all kinds of stuff. Then speaking of character development, really nobody in KH3 has arcs or development (aside from the villains, where it's just kind of out of nowhere at the end) like characters like Roxas or Axel or Riku did in KH2, because it's a bunch of nothing happening for most of the game and then just suddenly checking a bunch of stuff off a list once Sora gets to the Realm of Darkness and saves Aqua, and things just shoot off a rocket from there and there's so much to do all of a sudden that they don't really have time for proper character development or arcs for most of a character.
 

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
18,989
Yeah, giving it some time to sit, this is definitely one of my biggest issues with KH3: that, after DDD, we knew pretty much everything would happen in KH3, and that's pretty much exactly what happened, with very few actual twists along the way. Like, we knew that 13 darknesses and 7 lights would be gathered for a final confrontation with Master Xehanort at the Keyblade Graveyard to summon Kingdom Hearts, and indeed that happened. And along the way, it was pretty likely that Ven and Terra and company would be saved, and that they would find some way of bringing characters like Roxas and Xion and Naminé back, and they were. We knew what all of the broad strokes would be and they happened in turn, is what I'm getting at, with little deviation.

It just felt like going through the moments to finally resolve the stuff that DDD and the other games set up, and that's it. Not much in the way of unexpected twists or to make it even worse even character developments or character arcs or anything really, just checking stuff off a list and moving onto the next thing.

And to be clear, before someone says it, yes, there were twists as in stuff like Xigbar being Luxu. But that's just shoved in the epilogue and is more setting up the next games than something that KH3 did much with itself. There's nothing like KH2 starting off with Roxas and who is that guy and going through all that, or it turning out that Ansem the Wise was his own character and that's who DiZ was in CoM, and all kinds of stuff. Then speaking of character development, really nobody in KH3 has arcs or development (aside from the villains, where it's just kind of out of nowhere at the end) like characters like Roxas or Axel or Riku did in KH2, because it's a bunch of nothing happening for most of the game and then just suddenly checking a bunch of stuff off a list once Sora gets to the Realm of Darkness and saves Aqua, and things just shoot off a rocket from there and there's so much to do all of a sudden that they don't really have time for proper character development or arcs for most of a character.

This feels like an issue kinda at the other end of my issues.

I have no problem with KH3 being predictable. I have issues with the way in which they went about the predictability.