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[Unmarked Spoilers] Devil May Cry 5 - Spoiler Thread (It has begun...)
- Thread starter Dahbomb
- Start date
They'd need to completely remove or rework the break mechanic as well as let you switch between them at will. The system is way, way too limited in its current form.
Sucks that Vergil has kept a lot of the elements of his DMC3 DT, but Dante has a re-designed one.
I think Dante going full Michael Jackson now is my the most favorite "Devil Arm obtained" cutscene ever.
So Am I the only one who think Nico is Bi or Lesbian? Just a few things she says to Nero and About Trish and Lady make me think that she atleast is into girls.
They both have new SDTs - while Vergil's base DT is based on the DMC3 one, Dante's is extremely close to the 4 one, not a new design.
Actual new model imports will be great (although it'll be difficult getting them looking on the level of the original assets), but even basic model swaps are something I'm looking forward to for playable Trish/Lady/Eva.
Between RE Engine assets, I also wouldn't mind them giving Dante the RPD uniform.
That reminds me - will Vergil get EX Provocation too?
I can't imagine what sort of dance would fit him...
I guess you could project that on her if you wanted to read it that way, but I highly doubt it was anything the developers intended.
My narrative gripes with DMCV:
So narratively speaking... The game has several pillars that they're going for Vergil/V/Urizen's overall arc where it pertains to Dante, the culmination and resolution of their decades long rivalry where it pertains to Nero, the small relationship that was setup with V, the passing of the torch from Dante to Nero , and the broader family aspects of the Sparda family thing. ( both in line with the continued narrative of how Vergil's life choices, the emotional gap of Nero's upbringing without parents, etc )
The first failing imo, is the attempted mystery of Urizen the game tries to play your expectations and assumptions in regards to Urizen but the way the chracter interactions setup, how Dante acts, etc - isn't congruent with the knowledge that he's known all along it was Vergil. And in regards to the setup of Vergil as the main antagonist again, overall it's really poorly done. The aspects of his humanity being split off into V, what parts of him holds nostalgia, the power creep aspects, etc are not well told. Why was Urizen so fucking powerful when he's just the demonic aspect of Vergil removed - and then the series steps back in that regard a little bit by having a moment which shows that the unity of humanity and devil which forms Vergil in his truest form is the strongest form of him anyway. There's little things like that feels off.
I'm not in the clearest mood to articulate at the moment, but to me, the clear misstep is the "Shadow Moses" moment of DMCV the part where Dante goes to fight Urizen and sees their old home the part was just so poorly done from an emotional standpoint. at all. Like, even having it be a Urizen moment instead of a Vergil moment was a 'u whut mate' - nevermind that there's a utter lack of nostalgia or emotional attachment to the childhood era of Dante/Vergil due to how limited we are on that.
And I feel like the poor execution and landing of that Shadow Moses moment extends to all the major story beats of DMCV. From Nero's personal arc to his point in the ending.
Or the part where narratively Dante is passing the torch to Nero, but there's no real progression in that aspect of the dynamic outside of Nero gaining DT powers at the end and became their equal.
tldr; DMCV aims for some very ambitious plot and character development points for their key characters but imo doesn't land most if not all of them passing of the torch, the disraught nature of the humanity inside Vergil manisfeted as V, etc one of the lines in DMCV that made me go "bruh" was near the end when Vergil said: if our positions were swapped, would our lives be different?
The story of DMCV, nor the characterisation of Vergil - or even the little bits of humanity that we see from V - has done nothing to earn that line.
All things said and done, I love DMCV a ton. I just feel that narratively - it starts out with so much potential or ambition at doing many things ( humanising Vergil via V, reestablishing Vergil as a potent force after years of being Mundus's whipping boy, setting up the foundation for Nero to be seen as the worthy successor to Dante and his equal, the connective tissue of Nero and Vergil's relationship via the short time we have with V/Nero, the past of Vergil/Dante, etc etc )
There were so so many interesting threads that DMCV opened up, but never quite landed with the most finesse. And that was disappointing.
It's hilarious and also apt that I think one of the best pay-off moments in DMCV was when Vergil found out he's Nero's dad, and that scene was pure Vergil in the best way possible - where "I didn't know that and by the way, I also don't give a fuck that I have a son."
So narratively speaking... The game has several pillars that they're going for Vergil/V/Urizen's overall arc where it pertains to Dante, the culmination and resolution of their decades long rivalry where it pertains to Nero, the small relationship that was setup with V, the passing of the torch from Dante to Nero , and the broader family aspects of the Sparda family thing. ( both in line with the continued narrative of how Vergil's life choices, the emotional gap of Nero's upbringing without parents, etc )
The first failing imo, is the attempted mystery of Urizen the game tries to play your expectations and assumptions in regards to Urizen but the way the chracter interactions setup, how Dante acts, etc - isn't congruent with the knowledge that he's known all along it was Vergil. And in regards to the setup of Vergil as the main antagonist again, overall it's really poorly done. The aspects of his humanity being split off into V, what parts of him holds nostalgia, the power creep aspects, etc are not well told. Why was Urizen so fucking powerful when he's just the demonic aspect of Vergil removed - and then the series steps back in that regard a little bit by having a moment which shows that the unity of humanity and devil which forms Vergil in his truest form is the strongest form of him anyway. There's little things like that feels off.
I'm not in the clearest mood to articulate at the moment, but to me, the clear misstep is the "Shadow Moses" moment of DMCV the part where Dante goes to fight Urizen and sees their old home the part was just so poorly done from an emotional standpoint. at all. Like, even having it be a Urizen moment instead of a Vergil moment was a 'u whut mate' - nevermind that there's a utter lack of nostalgia or emotional attachment to the childhood era of Dante/Vergil due to how limited we are on that.
And I feel like the poor execution and landing of that Shadow Moses moment extends to all the major story beats of DMCV. From Nero's personal arc to his point in the ending.
Or the part where narratively Dante is passing the torch to Nero, but there's no real progression in that aspect of the dynamic outside of Nero gaining DT powers at the end and became their equal.
tldr; DMCV aims for some very ambitious plot and character development points for their key characters but imo doesn't land most if not all of them passing of the torch, the disraught nature of the humanity inside Vergil manisfeted as V, etc one of the lines in DMCV that made me go "bruh" was near the end when Vergil said: if our positions were swapped, would our lives be different?
The story of DMCV, nor the characterisation of Vergil - or even the little bits of humanity that we see from V - has done nothing to earn that line.
All things said and done, I love DMCV a ton. I just feel that narratively - it starts out with so much potential or ambition at doing many things ( humanising Vergil via V, reestablishing Vergil as a potent force after years of being Mundus's whipping boy, setting up the foundation for Nero to be seen as the worthy successor to Dante and his equal, the connective tissue of Nero and Vergil's relationship via the short time we have with V/Nero, the past of Vergil/Dante, etc etc )
There were so so many interesting threads that DMCV opened up, but never quite landed with the most finesse. And that was disappointing.
It's hilarious and also apt that I think one of the best pay-off moments in DMCV was when Vergil found out he's Nero's dad, and that scene was pure Vergil in the best way possible - where "I didn't know that and by the way, I also don't give a fuck that I have a son."
I am quite confident in saying that the Devil Trigger remix + Nero DT revelation combination in the final encounter is one of the greatest moments in action gaming history. First of all the revelation of his DT, then the awesome as fuck remix kicking in and the encounter that ensues. What a fucking way to end to end the game. Those tweets just compound it further for me.
Unrelated, I also find the Dante v Urizen fight setting in front of the childhood home and reality cracks one of the most sombre and appealing fight settings in the series. For a game with some weak environments it was a pretty strong setting, especially when Vergil is reborn there.
Unrelated, I also find the Dante v Urizen fight setting in front of the childhood home and reality cracks one of the most sombre and appealing fight settings in the series. For a game with some weak environments it was a pretty strong setting, especially when Vergil is reborn there.
Demon power comes from human blood. Urizen spent a literal month doing nothing BUT absorbing human blood, (the tentacles).
Vergil gained all the power from Urizen. The whole ordeal inadvertently activated his Sin DT.
Did anyone else notice Shinji Mikami is listed as lead environment artist? Maybe a different Shinji Mikami? Weird coincidence.
There's a bug during the ending sequence. I know not to hit Options to try and pause the game during cutscenes because it just skips them, but something came up right after I finished Nero's end credits bit and saw the cutscene with Dante and Virgil so I hit the home button on the DS4. When I returned it had skipped Dante's end credit fight and the cutscene right after, so for a bit I was under the impression that I had seen the entire ending. Basically, it doesn't seem to actually halt execution of that stuff which seems borked.
There's a bug during the ending sequence. I know not to hit Options to try and pause the game during cutscenes because it just skips them, but something came up right after I finished Nero's end credits bit and saw the cutscene with Dante and Virgil so I hit the home button on the DS4. When I returned it had skipped Dante's end credit fight and the cutscene right after, so for a bit I was under the impression that I had seen the entire ending. Basically, it doesn't seem to actually halt execution of that stuff which seems borked.
Another actor's life ruined by drugs and alcohol
Even after playing the game, I still think they gave Vergil the short end of the stick.
Dante is older, but he still looks good.
Being a good boy lets you age gracefully. Vergil has been a selfish asshole for so long its just showing up on his face now lol
Why did no one tell me you can ex-act with the damn devil bringer
Just wat
Why is there so much shit
Just wat
Why is there so much shit
I agree with most of your post, except the Urizen bit as explained above. And I say that having generally really enjoyed the story - it was not as well told as it could have been. It started and ended strong, but towards the middle, when everyone is just running through the Qlipoth, it lost a lot of steam and opportunities to flesh out different things, like Dante and Vergil's past, more of V's commentary on his time as Vergil, what the fuck actually happened to Sparda, etc.
I also love the way you describe that scene, because that is exactly how it plays out, lol.
Wait, you guys think Vergil looks old? Seriously? He barely looks older than his own son. The man is 40+ and doesn't have so much as one crow's foot. That screenshot up there has had a sharpening filter applied for some reason.
Well that took zero time. It's interesting how his effects are very clearly not done yet and some of his animations need work, but wow.
^
I didn't mind Vergil's new look because as a whole everyone looks more like a normal person than a Final Fantasy K-Pop porcelain pretty boy this time. The only minor thing that irked me was that Vergil doesn't really look like Dante, when they're supposed to be twins.
I'll take my L on the Urizen bit, because I assumed that all the blood was solely for the Qlipoth Fruit, and wasn't also being pumped into Urizen.
I didn't mind Vergil's new look because as a whole everyone looks more like a normal person than a Final Fantasy K-Pop porcelain pretty boy this time. The only minor thing that irked me was that Vergil doesn't really look like Dante, when they're supposed to be twins.
I'll take my L on the Urizen bit, because I assumed that all the blood was solely for the Qlipoth Fruit, and wasn't also being pumped into Urizen.
So, mechanically speaking...
What kind of stuff could we see from a V analog character in the future? I feel like flavor-wise Nevan and Lucifer both did some stuff that feels fitting for a mage character, but a lot of V is about very specific callbacks to DMC1, occasionally at the expense of mechanical depth (and power scaling) compared to the deliciously complex fully powered up Dante/Nero in this game. I do think the concept has lots of potential, but he feels closer to DMC4SE's half-baked Trish/Lady than he does to a fully polished and fleshed out modern DMC character.
What kind of stuff could we see from a V analog character in the future? I feel like flavor-wise Nevan and Lucifer both did some stuff that feels fitting for a mage character, but a lot of V is about very specific callbacks to DMC1, occasionally at the expense of mechanical depth (and power scaling) compared to the deliciously complex fully powered up Dante/Nero in this game. I do think the concept has lots of potential, but he feels closer to DMC4SE's half-baked Trish/Lady than he does to a fully polished and fleshed out modern DMC character.
I think Dante is really missing one really "weird" weapon in this game. Nevan and then Lucifer are fantastic and really round out Dante's moveset and add a lot of flair and utility that I don't really feel are here in V. Dr. Faust is fairly simple, all things told, and there isn't really something that adds the "reach" of Nevan or Lucifer. Really the only thing I felt missing mechanically speaking.
It all boils down to personal preference. I've always been partial toward the Final Fantasy porcelain look since you really can't go wrong with such a look.
The Witcher 3 did a very good job at creating realistic looking characters without making them look strange (unless you're an NPC or Dijkstra lol) so it's somewhat disappointing the same couldn't be said for some character models in this game.
Gameplay is still top notch so it's a minor grievance at this point.
Geesh, I really don't like "V" at all. I mean that both thematically and mechanically. He's silly easy to play, to the point of frustration. I was waiting for a "you'll be ashamed of your words and deeds" revelation with his character, but it just never came for me. I have the same disdain for his character, as a whole, after finishing the game as I did from the first time playing as him.
Game is pretty great otherwise. Shocked there was no playable Lady or Trish after being playable in DMC4:SE. Was actually shocked at their lack of involvement entirely. Nico is great. Just really don't like V. Like, I want to as a fan... but it's hard.
Game is pretty great otherwise. Shocked there was no playable Lady or Trish after being playable in DMC4:SE. Was actually shocked at their lack of involvement entirely. Nico is great. Just really don't like V. Like, I want to as a fan... but it's hard.
Obvious answer would be more summons.
Switching a summon while the active on is finishing a string will have that summon finish the string first before disappearing as you already control the one you switched to. Powering one up with DT will allow you to have that summon stay out and fight automatically while you control another one.
Alternatively you just make the character somewhat themed around summoning and transforming stuff. As you said Nevan or lucifer would be a good fit for a character like that.
Nevan could be you controlling her like the summons and she can transform into the guitar to have the old moveset
I guess you could have Nico playable and she fights by controlling robots she built and you can customize them with different weapons and tools
In my mind, I think a V-analog should be a character that requires more setup and actual execution of combos to defeat enemies. It was way too easy to play as V, he had practically no real drawbacks or risk management.
If I think about a sequel, I would have Patty be the new V-analog, but instead of having something like Shadow - you actually have to melee the enemies yourself at close range, and melee combat would be more about a Bioware-style 'combo system' where you melee an enemy to imbue them with a detonator, and then use your magic/ranged combat/combo/etc to detonate that power. You'd also swap between different style of magic elements and detonation powers to basically do magic-based setup that have different intended outcomes to either do AoE, focused targeting, etc.
So considering how much of Vergil is already done (voice clips, etc), I really feel like it would be a tremendous dick move of them to try and sell him. He's gotta be coming in the April free update, right?
Available for free*
*purchase him with 500,000,000 red orbs
=P
I honestly wouldn't mind having to work for him, to be fair.
I'd really like to see the gameplay style comeback. Hopefully this was an ease-in by Itsuno, because it's a great basis, but he needs more, and there's definitely lots of potential for making things juicier.
Different summons for the melee and ranged slots are an obvious consideration (along with different DT-based super ability). Maybe have sets of three that are thematically linked, like a fire based set with Phantom and Ifrit callbacks, or let individual slots be loaded out like weapons. Sets could allow for more interesting mechanics or lore, like having a pair of summons that split up ranged/melee duties and fuse together as the DT. On the other hand, loadouts could make summon switching a thing. You could give a crazy shape-shifting flavor to the actions if the pets transform mid-combo as you cancel into an attack after swapping.
Executions were cool but I'd really like to see the Style button fully fleshed out. Directly casting spells, with Style switching allowing you to choose different kinds of spells (simple elemental stuff or more interesting categories). Although this is kind of bleeding into my desire for full blown spellcaster in DMC, it would be nice to see even a handful of spells or abilities mapped to the basic Style inputs.
I mean, getting him to actually work vs. mods is a big and expensive undertaking. For example, notice how broken the hitboxes on his attacks are, and how each attack does literally the exact same amount of damage regardless of the move being used.
Oh, I'm aware. He doesn't even have a HUD or anything and a lot of his animations are clearly not done. But the fact they have THAT MUCH of him on the disc already feels like he was meant to be in the main game and just didn't get finished by the time the game went gold.
As much as I could see V's actual gameplay merged back into DD, DD's magic worked into an expansion of V works too.
It'd be absolutely ridiculous to balance, but I wonder if they could do something with actually recruiting regular enemy types. Still, it's probably a better idea for future familiars to be created as effective and responsive tools first rather than having to retrofit enemy NPCs, since that could just make his gameplay even more floaty and imprecise.
I mean all of that was for the sake of his boss fight.
Right, but having that attached to a playable character slot? Or are you saying the modder actually CREATED the playable version themself by assembling him out of the animations from the boss fight?
A character that works like Nine in Blazblue could work really well.
attack buttons each have their own element and using the different attacks queues up combinations of elements (up to 3) that can be used with a different button
So in the dmc sense
Square, triangle, circle different magic attacks
L1 uses up a bit of DT gauge to use the queued up spells to create a big one based on the combination. Or instead of having a system where the last 3 attacks create a combination you could make it where olding L1 and pressing attack buttons won't do attacks but create combinations.
For example:
Ice sword launcher, ice ice delay ice as a basic combo but if you are fast with combining spells you could sneak in a combination mid combo so
Ice launcher, ice, ice, hold L1 and quickly input a combination and then still be in time to finish the ice, ice, delay ice air combo
L2 and R2 could store combinations for later use
The attack buttons on their own would work as normal attacks.
Square or whatever button you normally have shoot bound to could be a fireball. Back forward fireball could create a firewall etc.
Triangle is a ice sword and you get your launchers etc.
Circle would be some other element or magic.
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I've thought of so many ways to do it over the years, so I'm digging your concepts. In general, I won't be too picky as long as I get to have tons of crazy spells in a DMC system.
I loved the lighting there - the criticism of the repetition in later tree environments isn't misplaced, but the game still has some striking rooms.
Almost every game of this ilk has an obnoxious boss gauntlet and I genuinely feel like DMC5 is the only one to get it right. It's still a boss gauntlet of sorts, for sure, but approaching them with V instead of anyone else is a much smarter way to do it.