University of California makes landmark decision to drop ACT and SAT requirement for admission

[Clay]

This is heartbreaking for students like me who test well but are extremely lazy lol.

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It's for the best. I skated through high school and got a really competitive SAT score (2250 back when it was out of 2400) and got my ass handed to me by my first year of college because I hadn't developed any study habits at all.

Personally I'm a little bummed, I actually tutor SAT and ACT on nights and weekends and it's pretty shockingly lucrative. But I've seen first hand how much stress these tests place on students who typically already have a lot on their plate. They were never indicative of how a student would do in college anyway, the Collegeboard was pretty open about the fact that SAT scores were not better than a student's grades in predicting post-graduation success. If you consider both, standardized stores AND grades you get a slightly more accurate estimate than with either used alone, but that's clearly not worth the stress.

 

[Darkmaigle]

I'm confused, aren't there still going to be required placement tests from the college itself? This shouldn't be an issue.

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yep colleges still have placement testS

 

[Pet]

So this helps PoCs and other disadvantaged students, right?

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Maybe.

Btw Asians are still poc but this will definitely hurt them. White enrollment isn't going to change. It'll be at the expensive of Asian American kids, if the applications focus primarily on GPA and extracurriculars.

That being said, if they develop their own tests and use them...as long as they keep race-blind admission, people will just learn how to take the new exam and the same "problems" will come up.

We'll see how this goes. As someone who did well on the SAT and expected my child to do the same, I suppose I'll just need to learn the new exam so I can make sure my kid does well on any college entrance exam.

It's for the best. I skated through high school and got a really competitive SAT score (2250 back when it was out of 2400) and got my ass handed to me by my first year of college because I hadn't developed any study habits at all.

Personally I'm a little bummed, I actually tutor SAT and ACT on nights and weekends and it's pretty shockingly lucrative. But I've seen first hand how much stress these tests place on students who typically already have a lot on their plate. They were never indicative of how a student would do in college anyway, the Collegeboard was pretty open about the fact that SAT scores were not better than a student's grades in predicting post-graduation success. If you consider both, standardized stores AND grades you get a slightly more accurate estimate than with either used alone, but that's clearly not worth the stress.

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Btw that's not true. Studies show that SAT scores correlate with college success. Just fyi.

 

[Clay]

Btw that's not true. Studies show that SAT scores correlate with college success. Just fyi.

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I didn't say that they don't correlate with college success.

Hopefully you're applying to a UC, need to brush up on those reading comprehension skills =P

 

[99nikniht]

In the early 2000's, this was a known pathway to get into UC Berkeley, but I don't know if it was a guarantee. After I graduated, I vaguely remember that Arnold's administration made an explicit push to increase the visibility of this pathway in order to help with overcrowding of some of the bigger UC's. I have no idea what the state of the admission process is now.

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This is called the TAG system. I'm not sure when it was named. Many of the upper tier UCs like Berkeley, LA and SD stopped allowing tag transfers, but other UCs like Davis still take them. The TAG system is that as long as you completed the IGETC (list of courses required to transfer to any UC) then you are guaranteed to get in as long as your GPA is above the threshold for the major you intend to complete.

On to the topic of the standardized tests. I went the community college route in my late 20s and graduated 5 years back from Berkeley. I didn't take the SAT or ACT, but I've taken the MCAT for medical school applications. I must admit that I sort of wish that I had taken a standardized test prior to transferring to Berkeley.

The test itself may not necessarily be indicative of how well one performs at the UC level, but I have to admit that the process and rigor of studying for a standardized test (info cramming, test taking skills, reading fast with sufficient comprehension, and etc) are all great skills to develop to do well in more difficult majors/programs. I'd sure as hell would have done better at Berkeley if I had the time to test prep the MCAT the summer prior to transferring.

 

[Nothing Loud]

Good. It shouldn't be more than optional. Requiring it just hurts minorities and low income students who don't have the same educational or socioeconomic resources as their white and higher income peers.

Signed, a Hispanic who busted his ass to get into school

 

[Pet]

I didn't say that they don't correlate with college success.

Hopefully you're applying to a UC, need to brush up those reading comprehension skills =P

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To quote you:

They were never indicative of how a student would do in college anyway, the Collegeboard was pretty open about the fact that SAT scores were not better than a student's grades in predicting post-graduation success.

 

[Clay]

To quote you:

They were never indicative of how a student would do in college anyway, the Collegeboard was pretty open about the fact that SAT scores were not better than a student's grades in predicting post-graduation success.

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Oh, sorry, I see how you could read that that way. If you read the entire post I go on to clarify that taking both SAT scores and grades into account provides a more accurate prediction of post-graduation success than either metric alone.

Sorry for that initial hyperbole.

The Collegeboard itself published a study that found variation in SAT scores explained 51% of variation in post-graduation success metrics, grades explained 53%, and both predicted 61%. A more accurate statement would have been "The added accuracy provided by incorporating SAT scores into models predicting students' success in high school is not impressive considering the time and expense that goes into preparing for it" would have been more accurate.

That's the most favorable analysis you're likely to find, and if you've worked with kids struggling to get a certain score I don't see how you can make the case that the slightly more accurate model is worth the stress.

 

[LukeOP]

The SATs didn't even test what you learned in high school. It's a complete joke.

 

[RedVanguard]

As someone who works at a community college (specifically to help students transfer), SAT/ACTs are a scam. Just go to a community college, get an AA (and another degree on your resume) and transfer. Going to a CC also helps with transitioning to college, not as many huge lecture hall courses, more accessible professors, etc.

 

[99nikniht]

Good. It shouldn't be more than optional. Requiring it just hurts minorities and low income students who don't have the same educational or socioeconomic resources as their white and higher income peers.

Signed, a Hispanic who busted his ass to get into school

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That might not be a good idea (the bolded part). It's either remove it completely or include it, can't make it optional. Making these things optional will only be another metric/variable that will be considered to get a seat to a program. Since each UC can only take in so many students/year, it'll just end up becoming another criteria to get into a UC.

 

[Birbos]

Good. Those standardized tests just became another avenue for the rich to gain an advantage over the people who can't afford SAT/ACT classes, which just teach you HOW to take the test.

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Yep. I didn't get tutored on any material, just how to analyze and interpret the test.

 

[Clay]

The SATs didn't even test what you learned in high school. It's a complete joke.

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It tests basic math, reading comprehension, and grammar. Hopefully kids are learning those in high school.

 

[Pet]

Oh, sorry, I see how you could read that that way. If you read the entire post I go on to clarify that taking both SAT scores and grades into account provides a more accurate prediction of post-graduation success than either metric alone.

Sorry for that initial hyperbole.

The Collegeboard itself published a study that found variation in SAT scores explained 51% of variation in post-graduation success metrics, grades explained 53%, and both predicted 61%. A more accurate statement would have been "The added accuracy provided by incorporating SAT scores into models predicting students' success in high school is not impressive considering the time and expense that goes into preparing for it" would have been more accurate.

That's the most favorable analysis you're likely to find, and if you've worked with kids struggling to get a certain score I don't see how you can make the case that the slightly more accurate model is worth the stress.

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As someone who also tutored the SATs, I hope that you teach your students to write better than yourself :).

 

[LukeOP]

It tests basic math, reading comprehension, and grammar. Hopefully kids are learning those in high school.

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Not really. There is a reason why they have courses in SAT prep in high school. It tests how well you know how to take their test.

A better metric would be evaluating AP course grades and the scores students get on their AP exams. There is a reason why colleges give credits for AP courses.

 

[Clay]

As someone who also tutored the SATs, I hope that you teach your students to write better than yourself :).

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Haha, usually in a casual setting I'm comfortable assuming people won't take every word I say/ type literally. I'll be sure to keep an eye out for your posts to see how it's done!

Not really. There is a reason why they have courses in SAT prep in high school. It tests how well you know how to take their test.

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Oh, there's absolutely ways to strategically take the test. But if a high school student looks at the test and has no clue what's going on they've been completely failed. And I'm not sure what you mean by "not really," those are literally the subjects covered on the test.

 

[birdinsky]

Not really. There is a reason why they have courses in SAT prep in high school. It tests how well you know how to take their test.

A better metric would be evaluating AP course grades and the scores students get on their AP exams. There is a reason why colleges give credits for AP courses.

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AP exams test knowledge. The SAT tests basic reading and math skills. Are there shortcuts and tricks, sure. But you won't get a good score solely on that.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

What are some problems with the SAT and ACT? I know state benchmark tests are crap but these were I thought some of the better ones. My main criticism of the SAT and ACT is the rigid time limit. I have never in my life ever outside of a test had to write an essay within 45 minutes.

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It doesn't actually correlate to college success and performance is directly correlated to income.

My school has modeled the data and the correlation to college success is more directly related to high school GPA. Covid gave us an opening to move to test optional. Even our intense engineering and medical colleges were on board.

 

[LukeOP]

Haha, usually in a casual setting I'm comfortable assuming people won't take every word I say/ type literally. I'll be sure to keep an eye out for your posts to see how it's done!



Oh, there's absolutely ways to strategically take the test. But if a high school student looks at the test and has no clue what's going on they've been completely failed. And I'm not sure what you mean by "not really," those are literally the subjects covered on the test.

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"No really" meaning the test isn't even a good metric for evaluating someone's reading comphersion and math capabilities.

 

[Deleted member 39374]

This is great news and will further democratize higher education. The SAT has always been biased to favor rich kids, because they're the ones whos familys spend thousands a month on private tutoring, test prep classes, and practice books- and they always score way, way higher than kids from poor or lower middle class families because of all those advantages.

 

[Clay]

"No really" meaning the test isn't even a good metric for evaluating someone's reading comphersion and math capabilities.

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I mean, if you're good at math you're probably going to do OK at a math test...

And if you have poor reading comprehension you're likely going to struggle on the reading section.

How else would you gauge someone's math and reading ability other than having them solve math problems or read then answer questions about a passage?

 

[LukeOP]

AP exams test knowledge. The SAT tests basic reading and math skills. Are there shortcuts and tricks, sure. But you won't get a good score solely on that.

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I'm sure if you get a 4 or 5 on an AP exam then an SAT exam is pointless. Why even require an SAT score if you are passing AP exams and getting college credits?

Surely getting college credits demonstrates you are capable of attending college.

 

[dingobingo]

I'm horrible at testing, and fked up my SAT, but was given a chance and now im averaging a 3.7 gpa in my MBA coarse (at a AACSB business school).. time crunch exams are absolute horseshit

 

[LukeOP]

I mean, if you're good at math you're probably going to do OK at a math test...

And if you have poor reading comprehension you're likely going to struggle on the reading section.

How else would you gauge someone's math and reading ability other than having them solve math problems or read then answer questions about a passage?

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Their grades through high school that already tested them on those specific categories? Not good enough? Their AP exam scores that already granted them college credits?

I had a 4.3 or more (can't remember, high school was 15+ years ago) weighted GPA in high school. I always found the SAT to be pointless.

 

[zoltek]

This is called the TAG system. I'm not sure when it was named. Many of the upper tier UCs like Berkeley, LA and SD stopped allowing tag transfers, but other UCs like Davis still take them. The TAG system is that as long as you completed the IGETC (list of courses required to transfer to any UC) then you are guaranteed to get in as long as your GPA is above the threshold for the major you intend to complete.

On to the topic of the standardized tests. I went the community college route in my late 20s and graduated 5 years back from Berkeley. I didn't take the SAT or ACT, but I've taken the MCAT for medical school applications. I must admit that I sort of wish that I had taken a standardized test prior to transferring to Berkeley.

The test itself may not necessarily be indicative of how well one performs at the UC level, but I have to admit that the process and rigor of studying for a standardized test (info cramming, test taking skills, reading fast with sufficient comprehension, and etc) are all great skills to develop to do well in more difficult majors/programs. I'd sure as hell would have done better at Berkeley if I had the time to test prep the MCAT the summer prior to transferring.

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Thanks for the background. It may not have been called TAG back when I was there. Not sure.

How did the MCAT go? I could never get over the fact that there was an essay portion on that test. What a waste of time and effort. Did you take a prep class? I did not for the SAT but did for the MCAT, trekking down to Kaplan's office off of Shattuck. I'm actually not sure if the prep class was all that useful other than to provide practice exams.

 

[TissueBox]

Will Smith got a perfect, ya know!

 

[lorddarkflare]

High school students need to understand that they dont have to go to expensive state school for their prerequisites. They can go to community college. Their high school advisers need to advise them about that.

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Yup.

This is what I did.

Sure it was humilliating, and I missed 2 years off the college experience. On the other hand, it was cheap as fuck and I lived at home.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

I mean, if you're good at math you're probably going to do OK at a math test...

And if you have poor reading comprehension you're likely going to struggle on the reading section.

How else would you gauge someone's math and reading ability other than having them solve math problems or read then answer questions about a passage?

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Review their transcripts, course selection, and grades. I work at a large university and we've been able to finally review data to show college success was more related to high school GPA.

SAT/ACT aren't strictly what you say. The timing, pressure, lack of many able to prep adequately to know the ins and outs of the test, all add to something that goes beyond basic algebra II knowledge. Many colleges do their own math placement testing anyway to determine the appropriate math course a student should start at.

If SAT/ACT was strictly a test of competence and the algebra II math level it tests on was it, there wouldn't be a need for the massive test prep industry out there. Students could just show up day of and dominate it.

 

[Clay]

Their grades through high school that already tested them on those specific categories? Not good enough? Their AP exam scores that already granted them college credits?

I had a 4.3 or more (can't remember, high school was 15+ years ago) weighted GPA in high school. I always found the SAT to be pointless.

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I agree with you that the test is pointless, I think it's great that more colleges aren't requiring it. The leap from that idea to "It doesn't even test math and reading skills" is a little bizarre.

Review their transcripts, course selection, and grades. I work at a large university and we've been able to finally review data to show college success was more related to high school GPA.

SAT/ACT aren't strictly what you say. The timing, pressure, lack of many able to prep adequately to know the ins and outs of the test, all add to something that goes beyond basic algebra II knowledge. Many colleges do their own math placement testing anyway to determine the appropriate math course a student should start at.

If SAT/ACT was strictly a test of competence and the algebra II math level it tests on was it, there wouldn't be a need for the massive test prep industry out there. Students could just show up day of and dominate it.

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To be frank, most of the "test prep industry" is just preying on families' fears that their students won't get into a good school. I'm convinced many students who work with private tutors would be able to achieve similar gains using free resources like Kahn Academy and the Official SAT Guide Book, which is published for free by the College Board. The fact that people are willing to pay for this stuff doesn't prove that it's necessary.

Anyway, I agree with what you're saying, like I said, I just thought the idea that the SAT doesn't test math skills or reading comprehension at all was a bit much.

 

[birdinsky]

I'm sure if you get a 4 or 5 on an AP exam then an SAT exam is pointless. Why even require an SAT score if you are passing AP exams and getting college credits?

Surely getting college credits demonstrates you are capable of attending college.

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Not everyone takes AP classes? Mastery of a particular subject does not necessarily show general academic aptitude?

I am not necessarily saying that the SAT should be mandatory. I am just pointing out that this is a skill test, which is different from a knowledge test. As someone who has taught both SAT and the LSAT, both of which test primarily for language skills in a time-pressured environment (at high school level, high language skill is pretty sufficient to cover math), it is just not true that test prep is either necessary or sufficient to get a good score. Yes, of course it correlates--people can boost scores with prep. But like yall... do you think GRADES aren't affected by economic status, time, mental health, etc. etc. etc.? I just don't see why the SAT is singled out as terrible--the underlying issue of what grades are, what college is, etc. are far too complex to say that making the SAT optional is going to move the needle.

 

[99nikniht]

How did the MCAT go? I could never get over the fact that there was an essay portion on that test. What a waste of time and effort. Did you take a prep class? I did not for the SAT but did for the MCAT, trekking down to Kaplan's office off of Shattuck. I'm actually not sure if the prep class was all that useful other than to provide practice exams.

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I signed up for the Princeton Review (also on Shattuck) because as an undergrad, the program is half off for EOP (extended opportunity program) students. I don't think the Princeton review is all that great other than having a ton of practice questions and practice exams, so I agree with you so much that these test prep programs are not all that great in my experience, though I hear the Berkeley Review is pretty good. I ended up using Uworld MCAT and Nextstep as my main source of studying material and test practice after my access Princeton review expired.

As for the MCAT itself, I did pretty decently, I scored in the 80th percentile. The new MCAT doesn't have a writing portion anymore, they consolidate that into what they call the CARS (Critical Analysis and Reasoning Section). It's basically speed reading 9 passages and answer 5-7 questions for each passage. The questions themselves are either straightforward or very tricky.

 

[Swiggins]

So this helps PoCs and other disadvantaged students, right?

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Nobody knows. In some cases the SAT and ACT helped POC and similarly disadvantaged students, but in others they helped wealthier students because they had the money to pay for tutors and cram classes.

This is an experiment if anything.

 

[molnizzle]

Their grades through high school that already tested them on those specific categories? Not good enough? Their AP exam scores that already granted them college credits?

I had a 4.3 or more (can't remember, high school was 15+ years ago) weighted GPA in high school. I always found the SAT to be pointless.

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The quality of education at U.S. high schools can vary wildly, as can grading standards. It's not like these universities have unlimited capacity and just want to make sure the students can do the work. They have to compare every applicant and choose who to accept and who to reject. Without some sort of standardized metric that is the same for everyone, that's gonna be rough.

 

[Terra Torment]

It doesn't actually correlate to college success and performance is directly correlated to income.

My school has modeled the data and the correlation to college success is more directly related to high school GPA. Covid gave us an opening to move to test optional. Even our intense engineering and medical colleges were on board.

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I remember being under a lot of pressure to give passing grades to students in order to graduate them and get them out. I would be concerned about grade inflation and people graduating who shouldn't be, who didn't put the work in to earn it, wouldn't even meet me halfway. I worked special ed, my later three years I worked with students with emotional and behavioral disabilities in day treatment.

They took away the option to give many of our disabled students special diplomas who really could have benefited from them. They were forcing intellectually disabled students and students who had missed years of school due to being in juvenile hall to pass algebra 2. I've been out of the teaching game for like 5 years though. I couldn't stand it anymore.

I'd rather we have viable options for students that don't require degrees or diplomas. Not everyone is cut out for school not everyone should be getting a regular standard diploma. There should be jobs available in factories and trades instead of shipping those jobs overseas. There used to be a path forward for people who didn't have a diploma. We need to have that path again.

 

[Deleted member 2585]

I'm sure if you get a 4 or 5 on an AP exam then an SAT exam is pointless. Why even require an SAT score if you are passing AP exams and getting college credits?

Surely getting college credits demonstrates you are capable of attending college.

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Not if you want to get into a top school. AP tests aren't actually a great way of differentiating strong candidates, because a *lot* of people get 5's on certain tests. Back when I was in high school, for example, 50% of everyone who took AP Calc BC got a 5. Top schools require consistently excellent scores on SAT/ACT, AP exams, and SAT subject tests, not to mention a high GPA plus extracurricular.

Unless you're an athlete or a legacy admission. Then you've got it pretty easy.

Thanks for the background. It may not have been called TAG back when I was there. Not sure.

How did the MCAT go? I could never get over the fact that there was an essay portion on that test. What a waste of time and effort. Did you take a prep class? I did not for the SAT but did for the MCAT, trekking down to Kaplan's office off of Shattuck. I'm actually not sure if the prep class was all that useful other than to provide practice exams.

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The MCAT psych section is the real killer for students who've taken psych 101 and think they can just breeze through it (me)

 

[Pet]

This is called the TAG system. I'm not sure when it was named. Many of the upper tier UCs like Berkeley, LA and SD stopped allowing tag transfers, but other UCs like Davis still take them. The TAG system is that as long as you completed the IGETC (list of courses required to transfer to any UC) then you are guaranteed to get in as long as your GPA is above the threshold for the major you intend to complete.

On to the topic of the standardized tests. I went the community college route in my late 20s and graduated 5 years back from Berkeley. I didn't take the SAT or ACT, but I've taken the MCAT for medical school applications. I must admit that I sort of wish that I had taken a standardized test prior to transferring to Berkeley.

The test itself may not necessarily be indicative of how well one performs at the UC level, but I have to admit that the process and rigor of studying for a standardized test (info cramming, test taking skills, reading fast with sufficient comprehension, and etc) are all great skills to develop to do well in more difficult majors/programs. I'd sure as hell would have done better at Berkeley if I had the time to test prep the MCAT the summer prior to transferring.

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If you were at Cal (Go Bears!) and then went on to medical school, you probably did fine at Berkeley anyway :p.

As for TAG and TAG-adjacent programs, iirc UCLA has a "preferred" transfer agreement with some community colleges that give a student extra points on their application. I think Cal does have those same agreements. Both, though, iirc, are from community colleges local to campus.

I honestly think that, looking back, doing two years at a community college then transferring to a UC is probably the cheapest and easiest way to finish your degree if that's all that matters. However, at 18, I personally wanted the "full" college experience (sorority, dorms, blahblah).

Unless things have changed drastically, Panhellenic sororities/IFC fraternities don't like to recruit anyone but freshmen (and the occasional sophomore). Also, at least on my campus, people didn't really dorm past the first or second year.

None of this is entirely related to the OP, but it's one part of the cc->4 year transfer that some people may care about.

 

[the magical kitsune]

That seems like a massive loss of time and money for those kids, not to mention the humiliation...

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Wouldn't be a first for Berkeley at least. That's how they used to run their math department a couple of decades ago, accept a bunch then weed them out with quals.

 

[samoyed]

Did above average on standardized tests, never liked them, glad we're moving away.

People will always seek to maximize their economic power and if it means gamifying test prep, they will do it. The idea that you can filter out the "best" potential students is naive. We need to re-evaluate the very basis of what higher education is, whether it should be job placement by proxy or some kind of broader acculturation.

 

[zoltek]

Not if you want to get into a top school. AP tests aren't actually a great way of differentiating strong candidates, because a *lot* of people get 5's on certain tests. Back when I was in high school, for example, 50% of everyone who took AP Calc BC got a 5. Top schools require consistently excellent scores on SAT/ACT, AP exams, and SAT subject tests, not to mention a high GPA plus extracurricular.

Unless you're an athlete or a legacy admission. Then you've got it pretty easy.



The MCAT psych section is the real killer for students who've taken psych 101 and think they can just breeze through it (me)

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Jesus. I feel like an old fart. There wasn't a psych section when I took the test. Do they still give a score with I think 45 being this arbitrary cutoff for a perfect score that nobody ever got?

 

[wandering]

Haha, usually in a casual setting I'm comfortable assuming people won't take every word I say/ type literally. I'll be sure to keep an eye out for your posts to see how it's done!

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Just take the L.

 

[Huncho_Houdini]

This will be interesting. My SAT score likely saved me because my GPA was otherwise crap because I was lazy for half of high school. But I can understand how these exams favor wealthier students.

 

[brawndolicious]

The problem with high school grades is that 90% of them are totally meaningless. How much of your grade comes from easy A electives or from teachers taking attendance? The kids from privileged backgrounds already have their parents dictating their daily schedules to maximize their GPA.

And the problem with standardized tests is that it's something anyone can learn to do well on with coaching and practice, which again benefits students that were born with more resources.

I think the only solution should be to just admit students from community college. You finish two years in CC and depending on the grades and letters of rec you get, that's what determines your application score. Also serves as a magic bullet for the exponential rise in student loans.

Really, the only benefit universities offer over community colleges is research programs and internships. And I would say most students are prepared for one of those until they've had at least a couple years of instruction in the field. Unless you're talking about one of those bullshit internships where they're just asking you to staple paperwork together or something.

Nope... for the UC's some community colleges even have a deal where if you hit a certain GPA , you're automatically accepted as a transfer.

If you didnt get in from HS, you're not shut out of UC

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Actually I think EVERY UC other than Berkeley and maybe LA have transfer agreements with community colleges. Only need like a 3.3 GPA and you'll get guaranteed admission.

You can only choose one school to get a transfer agreement with though so it's good to use it on the school you're most happy with going to. Also you will need to apply for it a few months before the official application.

 

[99nikniht]

If you were at Cal (Go Bears!) and then went on to medical school, you probably did fine at Berkeley anyway :p.

As for TAG and TAG-adjacent programs, iirc UCLA has a "preferred" transfer agreement with some community colleges that give a student extra points on their application. I think Cal does have those same agreements. Both, though, iirc, are from community colleges local to campus.

I honestly think that, looking back, doing two years at a community college then transferring to a UC is probably the cheapest and easiest way to finish your degree if that's all that matters. However, at 18, I personally wanted the "full" college experience (sorority, dorms, blahblah).

Unless things have changed drastically, Panhellenic sororities/IFC fraternities don't like to recruit anyone but freshmen (and the occasional sophomore). Also, at least on my campus, people didn't really dorm past the first or second year.

None of this is entirely related to the OP, but it's one part of the cc->4 year transfer that some people may care about.

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Go Bears lol.

Thanks for more clarification on the TAG and TAG adjacent programs, I wasn't aware of the transfer agreements that UCLA has with local community colleges. I am almost certain that when I was at Cal, Cal didn't have a preferred transfer agreement, though the school did have concurrent enrollment, attending classes at both their CC and at UCB. All students that I know that did concurrent enrollment and performed well at those classes ended up at Cal, so I guess that might be something similar.

I loved my time at community college. It was a great environment for me to find what works for me as a student. I will always recommend highschool students to consider community college to discover themselves a bit prior to going to a 4 year. It's also a huge financial incentive since many bay area counties are shifting towards free classes at the community college level.

I can't speak for sororities, but the frats took in transfers if they were willing to pledge. As you can guess, not many transfer students are likely to pledge, but I have friends that did and joined different sort of frats, including professional frats like the premed frat.

Jesus. I feel like an old fart. There wasn't a psych section when I took the test. Do they still give a score with I think 45 being this arbitrary cutoff for a perfect score that nobody ever got?

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Oh yeah, forgot to mention that they added a new section, the Sociology and Psychology section. They also added biochemistry on top of biology. The score range has been changed as well. The highest possible score is 528, while the lowest is 472. It's almost the same type of scoring from before, so I'm not sure why they opted to change the numerical values.

Don't feel like an old fart, cause I was/am an old fart while I took the test lol.

 

[Z-Beat]

That's cool but now I'm bitter

 

[Clay]

Just take the L.

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I already admitted I was being hyperbolic with that one sentence. I really did state in my first post that considering both standardized test scores and grades together provides a more accurate prediction of success post-college than using either metric alone.

Not sure what else I need to take an L for, but if it helps feel free to consider me lost.

This will be interesting. My SAT score likely saved me because my GPA was otherwise crap because I was lazy for half of high school. But I can understand how these exams favor wealthier students.

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I was in a similar boat, I didn't apply myself at all in high school but I was good at taking tests. I could definitely see my life having turned out differently if I hadn't been able to lean on my SAT score when applying to colleges. Honestly it's kind of bullshit that people who don't seem to care as much about school can take slots from applicants who are willing to throw themselves into their education, personally I see this as a plus.

 

[Deleted member 2585]

Jesus. I feel like an old fart. There wasn't a psych section when I took the test. Do they still give a score with I think 45 being this arbitrary cutoff for a perfect score that nobody ever got?

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Nope! It's scored from 472 - 528 (500 +- 28). Yes, everyone thinks it's dumb.

 

[Nephtes]

Good riddance.

I was always a substandard standardized test taker and after a ton of test prep I managed to get just good enough scores to get into my university of choice after 3 attempts at both the SAT and ACT.

I graduated college with a BS in Computer Science with honors in 4 years.

Several acquaintances of mine who went to the same high school and same college who had amazing SAT and ACT scores never graduated college. They were smart on paper, but never put in the work in high school to get good grades, and they continued to not put in the work in college. They were forced to drop out when their scholarships dried up.

There's no standardized test that measures drive and determination. No metric for determining work ethic. And that's the problem.

Kudos to the University of California.

 

[MistaTwo]

Pretty crazy change!

My one worry would be that taking this away as a sort of equalizer (if it even truly works that way which is debatable)
could lead admissions to just take more students from the more esteemed high schools and such, but I am sure there
are other systems in place to keep that from happening.

I never took the actual SAT, but I aced the ACT without any extra prep and that led me to get a 100% Bright Futures scholarship to my choice of state university.

 

[gully state]

Nope! It's scored from 472 - 528 (500 +- 28). Yes, everyone thinks it's dumb.

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I don't get why they don't just make it 0-56...I guess just completely obfuscate the scores in comparison to the old one out of 45.

 

[Huncho_Houdini]

I was in a similar boat, I didn't apply myself at all in high school but I was good at taking tests. I could definitely see my life having turned out differently if I hadn't been able to lean on my SAT score when applying to colleges. Honestly it's kind of bullshit that people who don't seem to care as much about school can take slots from applicants who are willing to throw themselves into their education, personally I see this as a plus.

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At the same time, kids are young during high school and if we only rely on grades to determine how worthy they are of an education, we can pass up students who could have improved further into their education. No one would have pegged that I would have become a doctor judging from my academic work ethic in the first 2 years of high school haha.

Either way it is really tough to stratify students fairly as competition for colleges is only getting higher.