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Unhappy Wife/Mother Syndrome
- Thread starter random_polymath
- Start date
I can't give you any advice OP, I can only commend you for your efforts and hope that things turn around for you both. I have to say though reading through all of this is pretty scary, your age gap and points in your lives in which you met are almost the exact same as myself and my partner and she has already had a lot of health issues and other issues regarding hormones (hyperthyroidism for example) and we haven't had kids yet, but we only found out recently that she's pregnant so that's about to change. I can only blame myself for it happening what I believe to be too early as I wanted to ensure that we could deal with the majority of her health issues first because I'm so worried about the complications of a pregnancy for her, but I was stupid and didn't really take any precautions as we were told the chances of her ever becoming pregnant were almost non-existent. But all of her health issues taking her out of college and away from work and generally being social have taken a toll on her mental health naturally and I know that post-partum depression affected her mother really bad. I've always had that fear too that someone else mentioned of her not having other or enough experiences with the age she met me at and that being a factor down the line (and while I get along with her family great, I know a lot of them told her this when she met me and we began to get close, to the point where they basically said she is too young to get settled and needs to go out and get plastered and essentially shag loads of different men first). I've said this to her and she has always reassured me that she would never feel that way and that she wants to spend her life with me but I find it hard to shake that feeling that with her being at her age that it is something she will inevitably feel no matter how happy she may be with me or how much she may love me. I guess regarding relationships she could argue the same for me considering I haven't been with anyone else either but I at least had my time in university and have been able to work more. I don't really know what to feel from day to day as it is, I'm still finding it hard to deal with the pregnancy (more than anything because of my worries of what may happen to her, and whether we're really in a position to look after a child) but I'm doing my best to just be there for her, although as I'm working 2 jobs and spend about 4 hours a day commuting I'm barely around her through the majority of the week which is another worry. Heck I've had a ring for about 8 months waiting to propose but still haven't done it as I wanted to wait for the right time but things always happen to get in the way of sorts, but then I think again "what is a right time" and have often contemplated in recent weeks that while we don't have our own place currently, we're in a house with some of her family that make her feel safe and look after her while I'm out, we both feel more relaxed there than we have anywhere we've been for a few years and while things that make life difficult seem to pile up at times for us, when it's just her and me we're great and happy. Then I read your situation and similar situations and I just question it and worry and think I should just keep going as things are.
Anyway, my apologies, I've really rambled badly and this isn't my thread, although honestly even if no-one reads this it feels better getting all that out in some form. But my apologies. I really hope things improve for you guys, I really cannot imagine how difficult it is for you to feel like you are almost shunned daily by your wife's affections yet need to constantly remind yourself that she's not doing it herself and that she can't control it, I have been there a little with my partner (although more than anything it's an endless need for her to hear reassurances from me) but for that long and with everything else you've had to deal with I just don't know how you do it. I really wish you the best of luck.
Anyway, my apologies, I've really rambled badly and this isn't my thread, although honestly even if no-one reads this it feels better getting all that out in some form. But my apologies. I really hope things improve for you guys, I really cannot imagine how difficult it is for you to feel like you are almost shunned daily by your wife's affections yet need to constantly remind yourself that she's not doing it herself and that she can't control it, I have been there a little with my partner (although more than anything it's an endless need for her to hear reassurances from me) but for that long and with everything else you've had to deal with I just don't know how you do it. I really wish you the best of luck.
OP, I really hope you yourself are doing ok. This is A LOT to have resting on your shoulders day in and day out. You sound amazing and your wife's story is quite sad, but I'm concerned about your mental health as well. Her continually blaming you, as you say, sounds borderline abusive. Apologies if I missed this and you said that you already are, but I hope that you consider getting your own solo therapy sessions. This is a lot for anyone to deal with.
I can definitely empathize with you OP, married 10 years, been with 18 total years. 2 kids. Home. Dog etc. My wife is stressed out a ton all the time, she talks about how some of her friends are okay with being a B- mom, but my wife refuses that notion and so is always juggling many hats. I help/chip in when I can.
Ever since Marie Kondo came around my wife has been unhappy with all the clutter.
Good luck to you
Ever since Marie Kondo came around my wife has been unhappy with all the clutter.
Good luck to you
Having been in a similar situation it's basically a question of how much you can take. It's all on her end, and as you should realize there is literally nothing you can do about it one way or the other. I was let off the hook when she found someone else. I was willing to stick it out for the kids, but in the end I was just along for the ride.
That's quite the sit, OP. As a mother of two, I feel for you both going through this. I don't have any advice with the PPD applicable to your exact situation (though I know many women and husbands struggling with it), but I just wanted to say that you've been handling it all extremely well. I really applaud the care, patience, and consideration you're giving your wife even though this must be exhausting and frustrating (and sad), and especially the care you take for yourself and children by staying social and giving them love. It's so easy to just let things go or neglect them when you're overwhelmed with stuff like this. You're doing an amazing job.
Don't take it too much as a given. My sister is like that and we were all on tenterhooks with her first baby, but she's managed just fine. It's something to keep an eye on if the emotional roller coaster keeps on or dips for too long, but don't make a decision against kids purely based on that worry. Just talk about it beforehand, have a plan in place, and be prepared.
This and the missing development/struggle from being with someone since school sound like potential causes of OP's problem. Like pets, or material things, some people think babies will change them or give them that sympathy and attention they crave. Or that the pregnancy somehow will erase or overshadow anything they feel guilty about, kind of like how everyone's supposed to be nice to you on your birthday regardless of anything else. Except eventually you have the baby and more responsibility and you're stuck with it... Whatever it is, I think you're 1000% right to nix talk of another baby for a few years, OP. She needs to get sorted first and decide to have one for the right reasons.
Don't take it too much as a given. My sister is like that and we were all on tenterhooks with her first baby, but she's managed just fine. It's something to keep an eye on if the emotional roller coaster keeps on or dips for too long, but don't make a decision against kids purely based on that worry. Just talk about it beforehand, have a plan in place, and be prepared.
This and the missing development/struggle from being with someone since school sound like potential causes of OP's problem. Like pets, or material things, some people think babies will change them or give them that sympathy and attention they crave. Or that the pregnancy somehow will erase or overshadow anything they feel guilty about, kind of like how everyone's supposed to be nice to you on your birthday regardless of anything else. Except eventually you have the baby and more responsibility and you're stuck with it... Whatever it is, I think you're 1000% right to nix talk of another baby for a few years, OP. She needs to get sorted first and decide to have one for the right reasons.
I don't really have an advice but I do want to say you sound like an amazing person. Bless you bro.
My support to you OP. You sound like a solid man/husband/father. PM at any time if you need someone to talk to. I can say I have a great deal of experience in the situation you are going through.
So she has diagnosed chronic depression? And she's not taking any meds?
I'll admit I'm biased because my job has me working with mentally ill people regularly but she hadsa mental illness that isn't going away and is going to be hard to manage without medication. It's super super hard to "beat" depression without any sort of medication regimen. Her brain chemically does not work "normally" and it makes sense that she's still suffering these symptoms for 8 years now.
You do you obviously but I would seriously consider talking with her & her doctor because her symptoms are not getting any better and it's been that way for years. I mean your entire problem in your marriage is that she's depressed...because she has clinical depression. Need to fix that to fix the other issues.
I'll admit I'm biased because my job has me working with mentally ill people regularly but she hadsa mental illness that isn't going away and is going to be hard to manage without medication. It's super super hard to "beat" depression without any sort of medication regimen. Her brain chemically does not work "normally" and it makes sense that she's still suffering these symptoms for 8 years now.
You do you obviously but I would seriously consider talking with her & her doctor because her symptoms are not getting any better and it's been that way for years. I mean your entire problem in your marriage is that she's depressed...because she has clinical depression. Need to fix that to fix the other issues.
I had this same situation with my wife.
She got on antidepressant medication and now she's alot better. Like, alot. (The scary part though was that it made her feel worse for two weeks before it started working as intended)
Sometimes you just can't control what your brain makes you do. Not without help from medical science.
She got on antidepressant medication and now she's alot better. Like, alot. (The scary part though was that it made her feel worse for two weeks before it started working as intended)
Sometimes you just can't control what your brain makes you do. Not without help from medical science.
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Went through a similar thing with my ex but she developed a Rx drug addiction problem that led her to stealing meds from work, she was an RN, lying about it, and getting fired from 9 jobs in about a year with a few stints in mental wards.
The refusal to accept responsibility for any of her actions through years of support and accommodations to her issues and my unhappiness and basically living alone, since she basically lived in the bedroom the last three years of our marriage, I had to leave her. It wasn't worth it to stay married for the kids, for another 14 years.
The refusal to accept responsibility for any of her actions through years of support and accommodations to her issues and my unhappiness and basically living alone, since she basically lived in the bedroom the last three years of our marriage, I had to leave her. It wasn't worth it to stay married for the kids, for another 14 years.
I'm in a similar situation. My wife had an accident a few years ago that resulted in a traumatic brain injury. She suffered from depression before that but has been more unpredictable since the accident, with more severe mood shifts. That was compounded by the birth of our son, after which she too developed post-partum depression. She would cry to me every night for the first two years of his life saying how she wanted to hurt him so badly and didn't know why. She once dropped him down the stairs, which she claimed was an accident. I don't know if that's true. She has also hit him and shoved him. He sometimes says "mom's monster is out" now if she starts to become aggressive. I can't leave him alone with her for an extended period and am always nervous if for some reason I have to work for the day and they are alone together. Sometimes it seems like I can't be gone for more than five minutes without one of them having a breakdown. When I am there, they usually interact just fine.
She's still holding down her job, she goes to a physical trainer twice a week, and she visits a therapist and psychiatrist regularly. She's had to switch medications several times to try and find a good balance. I try to support her but it often feels like that will never be enough. I don't think we've made it to a Saturday in three years without her collapsing into a "it's been a bad week."
I do what I can to take help her, but obviously there is no fixing it. I think the best anyone in this situation can do is try to bear the load. Don't stack excess labor on her, try to help with the tasks that cause the most struggle. Listen to her, sympathize. Don't always offer advice. Encourage her to be social and stay in contact with her friends and family. Despite all this, there are some days you'll wonder when you'll lose a chair from the table, and whose it will be. There's no telling. Sometimes there is no correct path forward. You just do what you can to batten the homestead and weather the storm.
She's still holding down her job, she goes to a physical trainer twice a week, and she visits a therapist and psychiatrist regularly. She's had to switch medications several times to try and find a good balance. I try to support her but it often feels like that will never be enough. I don't think we've made it to a Saturday in three years without her collapsing into a "it's been a bad week."
I do what I can to take help her, but obviously there is no fixing it. I think the best anyone in this situation can do is try to bear the load. Don't stack excess labor on her, try to help with the tasks that cause the most struggle. Listen to her, sympathize. Don't always offer advice. Encourage her to be social and stay in contact with her friends and family. Despite all this, there are some days you'll wonder when you'll lose a chair from the table, and whose it will be. There's no telling. Sometimes there is no correct path forward. You just do what you can to batten the homestead and weather the storm.
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Sounds familiar to my experience with my ex. Also a 5 year difference, also us meeting when she was 18 and I was 22, etc. Kids, moving, we got pet rats and a cat though instead of a dog and ferrets. However I had some health issues that most definitely complicated things at times.
With that being said the under lying pattern was very similar. In total we were together 10 years before I had to ask her to leave because the impact on my kids was becoming a concern and the stress of it all was starting to make it hard for me to breath.
The big problem for my ex imo was looking for a solution to her problems outside of her own being. But you can't force a person to shift paradigms. You can help facilitate it but they have to jump and swim.
We separated and have been part almost 8 years. We're on ok terms right now to a degree. But that's another story.
Here's what I can tell you from my experience, After all this, I realized how much I changed and not all for the better. The struggle of it all wears you down. I've started growing and finding my self again since we've been apart. I love being a single dad and I'm grateful to her and everything we went through because of my kids.
On a not so great note, I avoid intimate relationships with woman. But this is more complicated than just what happened with my ex. I blame her for nothing.
We all are on 2 journeys in a sense. One with ourselves and one shared with the world and other members of the world. Many times the wants and needs of the journey and path of the self differ from that of the journey we take with others. Hence this struggle and conflict many go through.
Even though you have tried to compensate for her early start in the relationship and in a sense her missing out on a certain aspects of her life. I think this still may be an issue and one that she may have to resolve on her own. It's hard to say for sure.
Anecdotally, from my own observation and study I think there may be some aspect of our psychology that develops between the ages of 18 and our early twenties that may play an important roll in how we perceive the cause and effect relationship between our inner experience and outer expectations. Meaning looking internally in regards to problems and solutions of our own inner conflicts versus continually looking at external causes and factors.
There seems to be alignment issues between our wants and expectations and the reality of actual experience when the 2 meet.
(I honestly think this would be a great area for more research. As I've seen many people with similar issues that I think could be pinpointed to some type of developmental issue between that occurred in there late teens to early 20s age bracket)
Is your wife religious or spiritual at all? I also don't know what your views are on that dimension of life. But for many there is much to gain when one traverses that path on their own will and doing. This is not the same type of experience when one is indoctrinated as a child. From my own personal experience some of the spiritual teachings seem to resonate better when it comes to topics of expectation, fulfillment, desire, etc.
I'm going to ask myself to think more about the issue during the day and see if I have any additional advice or suggestions that I can become more aware of and pass along. But for now I want to say I sincerely wish you a positive outcome to all this, for your yourself, for your wife and your children. You sound like a genuinely compassionate person trying their best and for that I wish you the best.
Much love.
With that being said the under lying pattern was very similar. In total we were together 10 years before I had to ask her to leave because the impact on my kids was becoming a concern and the stress of it all was starting to make it hard for me to breath.
The big problem for my ex imo was looking for a solution to her problems outside of her own being. But you can't force a person to shift paradigms. You can help facilitate it but they have to jump and swim.
We separated and have been part almost 8 years. We're on ok terms right now to a degree. But that's another story.
Here's what I can tell you from my experience, After all this, I realized how much I changed and not all for the better. The struggle of it all wears you down. I've started growing and finding my self again since we've been apart. I love being a single dad and I'm grateful to her and everything we went through because of my kids.
On a not so great note, I avoid intimate relationships with woman. But this is more complicated than just what happened with my ex. I blame her for nothing.
We all are on 2 journeys in a sense. One with ourselves and one shared with the world and other members of the world. Many times the wants and needs of the journey and path of the self differ from that of the journey we take with others. Hence this struggle and conflict many go through.
Even though you have tried to compensate for her early start in the relationship and in a sense her missing out on a certain aspects of her life. I think this still may be an issue and one that she may have to resolve on her own. It's hard to say for sure.
Anecdotally, from my own observation and study I think there may be some aspect of our psychology that develops between the ages of 18 and our early twenties that may play an important roll in how we perceive the cause and effect relationship between our inner experience and outer expectations. Meaning looking internally in regards to problems and solutions of our own inner conflicts versus continually looking at external causes and factors.
There seems to be alignment issues between our wants and expectations and the reality of actual experience when the 2 meet.
(I honestly think this would be a great area for more research. As I've seen many people with similar issues that I think could be pinpointed to some type of developmental issue between that occurred in there late teens to early 20s age bracket)
Is your wife religious or spiritual at all? I also don't know what your views are on that dimension of life. But for many there is much to gain when one traverses that path on their own will and doing. This is not the same type of experience when one is indoctrinated as a child. From my own personal experience some of the spiritual teachings seem to resonate better when it comes to topics of expectation, fulfillment, desire, etc.
I'm going to ask myself to think more about the issue during the day and see if I have any additional advice or suggestions that I can become more aware of and pass along. But for now I want to say I sincerely wish you a positive outcome to all this, for your yourself, for your wife and your children. You sound like a genuinely compassionate person trying their best and for that I wish you the best.
Much love.
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What a terrible but helpful thread. I feel you guys.
Let's just say that my son is 4,5 months old, since month two I get to see him every other week -max- in a café for maybe an hour and only got to hold him very SHORTLY twice...when I had people with me. Probably because they could verify my account to child services. I held and pampered my newest nephew (two months old) more over the 4 day weekend last week than my own son since I went away for a fortnight for an exam to finish med school and her completly losing her marbles or whatever happened. Didn't even see him for his first Christmas or NYE. Heck, this month she doesn't even respond to my messages about visits.
I know EXACTLY what "blaming others" and "never being happy" looks like. With a (un)healthy dose of "people are doing this specifically to spite ME" thrown in. Jealousy of me being a medical student. Me not having a spiteful mother. Support. Most of this shit she could've found in my family, but she chose to find faults in and condlict with EVERYONE. And just a negative attitude in general when the slightest thing isn't as she wills it with her very peculiar expectations. I knew/found out she had atypical mental health, but it escalated pretty rapidly.
I fear her shitty mood is rubbing off on my son. It kills me. Not seeing him, too, of course, but my nephew is beaming, "talking", totally relaxed and HAPPY while three brothers tug at him and a strange uncle he never met before carries him around to change his diaper. My son seems so...reserved...to the world after I wasn't allowed to enter her home anymore (we nominally lived seperatly because of uni), he cries a lot (in a loud as hell public place, who can blame him) and she yanks him away and storms off because he "needs to sleep", because, yes, it's physically impossible for a babe to sleep in his parents/relatives/friends' arms or his buggy. He is just not a happy baby anymore. Her towns' child services were very sympathetic towards me, though, so at least I might be able to see him in a different setting soon. I might even get joint custody, even though she flat out ignored both my request and their letter. I feel like a cretin from some trash tv show going that route, but if that's the only way to get a healthy relationship with my firstborn - and likely only child - I will debase myself, I will sue, I will rain down fire and blood if need be.
Sorry for the rant.
Let's just say that my son is 4,5 months old, since month two I get to see him every other week -max- in a café for maybe an hour and only got to hold him very SHORTLY twice...when I had people with me. Probably because they could verify my account to child services. I held and pampered my newest nephew (two months old) more over the 4 day weekend last week than my own son since I went away for a fortnight for an exam to finish med school and her completly losing her marbles or whatever happened. Didn't even see him for his first Christmas or NYE. Heck, this month she doesn't even respond to my messages about visits.
I know EXACTLY what "blaming others" and "never being happy" looks like. With a (un)healthy dose of "people are doing this specifically to spite ME" thrown in. Jealousy of me being a medical student. Me not having a spiteful mother. Support. Most of this shit she could've found in my family, but she chose to find faults in and condlict with EVERYONE. And just a negative attitude in general when the slightest thing isn't as she wills it with her very peculiar expectations. I knew/found out she had atypical mental health, but it escalated pretty rapidly.
I fear her shitty mood is rubbing off on my son. It kills me. Not seeing him, too, of course, but my nephew is beaming, "talking", totally relaxed and HAPPY while three brothers tug at him and a strange uncle he never met before carries him around to change his diaper. My son seems so...reserved...to the world after I wasn't allowed to enter her home anymore (we nominally lived seperatly because of uni), he cries a lot (in a loud as hell public place, who can blame him) and she yanks him away and storms off because he "needs to sleep", because, yes, it's physically impossible for a babe to sleep in his parents/relatives/friends' arms or his buggy. He is just not a happy baby anymore. Her towns' child services were very sympathetic towards me, though, so at least I might be able to see him in a different setting soon. I might even get joint custody, even though she flat out ignored both my request and their letter. I feel like a cretin from some trash tv show going that route, but if that's the only way to get a healthy relationship with my firstborn - and likely only child - I will debase myself, I will sue, I will rain down fire and blood if need be.
Sorry for the rant.
Did you guys go with the option of having a DNA test done to see which mental health medications are the most biologically compatible with her body? This is a relatively new thing, you may have to dig a bit to find a psychiatrist that offers GeneSight or you may have to advocate for it. I'd recommend giving that a shot after she weans the baby. It eliminates or alleviates the trial and error part of finding the correct medication, which a lot of mental health patients get wary of after burning through a lot of the more commonly prescribed ones.
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My wife and I went through something similar for almost a year after our son was born. I can't even imagine going through it for 8 years. There's lots of good advice in this thread already, but I just wanted to say you're a great person OP and stay strong. Best of luck to you and your wife.
I feel for you OP. Consider that all the medication she took might have changed her. 5+ years of taking Zoloft has had a profound effect on me, I feel like it has changed my brain structure for the worse. Doctors generally don't think about long term effects of medication.
Um, I'm not sure I understand this situation, do you have some sort of custody agreement with your former partner? It sounds like you need to get a family lawyer ASAP. This whole, "since month two I get to see him every other week -max- in a café for maybe an hour and only got to hold him very SHORTLY twice...when I had people with me..." doesn't sound right. Get an attorney and get a proper custody agreement in place.
OP
OP
Since my wife is a nurse she knows medications well. She knows the risks and by extension so do I. You are right and that is why finding non-medication solutions to issues is typically the best way forward. If she was suicidal or a risk to others unmedicated, I would change my mind, but that is not the case here.
I wrote this thread last night while my wife was at work. I was watching the kids and put them to bed while waiting up for her to come home late. Prior to leaving for work she was very irritable and her usual argumentative self. When she returned home.....it was a good day.....she was compassionate and loving - she caressed my stomach while preparing for sleep. The affection was something I very much needed.
It is times like that that give me hope that the person I married is still in there.
I want to thank everyone for their kind words - they help. I hope others continue to share their stories and at some point we discover some patterns which might be able to improve our circumstances and our loved ones. I feel as though something is going on here, something hidden and unresearched that demands attention. Obviously, I don't have the time, resources and energy to solve it, but perhaps our collective efforts might some day provide the necessary data to make the world a slightly better place.
I can't speak for myself, because 2 kids and so far everything going pretty good, no post partum, babyboom or anything like that but this is not the case with my co-worker. How is now separate because his wife got depression... then he was getting tired to "carry" everything on his shoulder. Then she found another "shoulder" thinking that would help her. then came back, always the same pattern. Then he left her (all in 4 years). To his suprise she seem to feel way better since the seperation, the 1/weeks on 2 for child seem to help her a lot.
is she on depression medication? Sorry i might have missed that.
my wife had post partem after both our kids, didnt matter what we did. For the second kid i took her every night so my wife could sleep more and longer periods. She still felt depressed. Its been 3 years since our second and she's still on the medication.
my wife had post partem after both our kids, didnt matter what we did. For the second kid i took her every night so my wife could sleep more and longer periods. She still felt depressed. Its been 3 years since our second and she's still on the medication.
I've gone through something similar with my wife. As soon our daughter was born her personality changed and it's gotten progressively worse ever since. She's angry most of the time and I have severe depression so it's hard to be around her most of the time.
You've handled it better than I have.
You've handled it better than I have.
The panic attack prior to having the baby and the bisexuality is a huge red flag to me. I think your wife is struggling with identity but is too tied up in a life with you that she can't properly explore it.
I've been going through some of what you've shared here, though not exactly the same. Sucks when you feel that affection is being withheld, but I know my wife definitely went through a depression period. She's typically fine, but her personality can be fairly high-strung at the worst of times and she'll readily admit that she doesn't have enough patience, which manifests in expecting things to be done RIGHT AWAY with our kids. I step in as needed to be the calming voice, but she sometimes views that as her always having to play the bad guy while daddy is the good one. (we never say this in front of the kids)
I've wondered if suggesting therapy might reveal that something more is going on behind the scenes, but I'm not sure how she would take that. I full believe a person is responsible for their own happiness, and think I have a huge reservoir of patience, so I'm handling it as well as I can, but yeah, it sucks sometimes. And sometimes you do get those good stretches of time when everything feels like it's great and like things are going to be just fine.
I've wondered if suggesting therapy might reveal that something more is going on behind the scenes, but I'm not sure how she would take that. I full believe a person is responsible for their own happiness, and think I have a huge reservoir of patience, so I'm handling it as well as I can, but yeah, it sucks sometimes. And sometimes you do get those good stretches of time when everything feels like it's great and like things are going to be just fine.
It sounds like she's abusing your son. Be careful, dude. How old was he when she dropped him down the stairs?
Unfortunately, that's exactly what I'm reading too from OP's post. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm afraid OP's marriage is heading towards unavoidable end, the writing is on the wall. Again, I hope I'm wrong and I hope for a better outcome.
Good luck OP and no matter what, stay strong.
OP
OP
I am really sorry for what you are going through. You have it worse than me. My situation hasn't reached the stage to where I cannot trust her around my children. I am thankful for that. It must be terrifying. In that situation, it might be worth it to do whatever you can to protect your children, but then again it might exacerbate things into a Dear Zachary situation. Truly horrifying. I wish I could provide better comfort and/or guidance.
This would make sense since she has been with OP since exiting high school.
I feel for you brother. Societal expectations break people, and can force people to remain unhappy. Counseling may help repair, or it may make you both realize separation is the best route. Not sure how much I want to say publicly but went through the same thing. PM me if you want to talk more.
OP
OP
There may be some truth to that. It may come to some kind of strange situation where she pursues her interests alone (so that she has the space to develop them) and I seek an outlet for my struggles with lack of affection.
The risk is of course of her making some kind of catastrophic mistake that affects me and the kids. During our open period, she seemed to like rope play and more of the rough play. I've explored those worlds with her and I can say for a fact I don't trust the people in that world. I've met a lot of women there who have encountered rapid abuse that acts as fuel for the gratification of others - who themselves are coping with their own dark shit. Some truly scary stuff.
I am her greatest protector and advocate. I don't want to see her suffer or struggle. I want to provide a safe place for her to pursue her own happiness. Meanwhile, nobody is looking after me, but me and introducing another person to fulfill my needs will just work to build resentment and take time and attention away from someone who really needs it most.
This is a no-win situation. Where is Captain Kirk when you need him?
Has she tried a ketamine treatment center? She is a perfect candidate.
At the very least, I am confident it will result in more of the glimpses you live for.
Each treatment is 500-800 dollars but insurance will usually reimburse 80% of the amount when you mail in a claim., dropping your cost to around $150 per session. PM me for additional info.
ps: Good job being the world's #1 husband :)
If she appears to have treatment-resistant depression then ECT may be an option, OP.
I also noted the history of polygamy which you have been receptive and understanding of. I'm glad you two have decided to remain monogamous for the time being as her depression mixed with multiple romantic relationships can really exacerbate emotional instability. I really don't know what else to say, only that you're handling it as best as could be asked for I think. I'd just encourage her to continue with therapy and really explore the potential benefits of ECT if medications continue to be ineffective.
I also noted the history of polygamy which you have been receptive and understanding of. I'm glad you two have decided to remain monogamous for the time being as her depression mixed with multiple romantic relationships can really exacerbate emotional instability. I really don't know what else to say, only that you're handling it as best as could be asked for I think. I'd just encourage her to continue with therapy and really explore the potential benefits of ECT if medications continue to be ineffective.
Your wife sounds a lot like me and my wife in different ways. I can't offer advice because I'm a mess and I have no idea what I'm doing. Sounds like you're doing better than me anyway. Good luck.
The point of marriage is to change with that person and grow with them, even if in different ways, and support one another.
I read through the OP and the rest of your replies but this was the one that made me want to post.
I genuinely think you're doing the right thing overall in trying to be supportive but I'm going to push back against this point because, in my personal experience, this is not the lesson that kids take away from a situation like this. I can say this because of my own experiences being the child in this situation.
My parents married relatively late in an arranged marriage. Like you, my father had had girlfriends/relationships before the wedding where my Mom had not. After she gave birth to me, my Mom fell into a depression of her own. She cared for me (and still does as far as I can tell) but, as I grew older, her depression meant that she couldn't show her love to me in the way that she needed to. Once I grew old enough to not just be a receptacle for any affection she had to spare but also to have my own opinions and start questioning things, I started seeing the other side of things.
My mother would frequently ask my father for things and he would always give her what she asked. He bought plants, household goods, cars...you name it, she got it. For a time, they were enough but soon they became only another point of argument or, more frequently, something else to be ignored. I'm now 35 years old and my parents house is full of just..."stuff" and almost all of it is my Mom's. Multiple appliances and gadgets (so many that 2/3s of a 3 car garage is full of it), all manner of leftover goods from the things that were purchased at her request. None of these things made her happier. When she wasn't going through "stuff", she'd look to me to fulfill her in some way. What started as love became an obsession. I was constantly compared to other kids academically and physically, told I needed to lose weight while also being fed way too much because I was a "growing boy".
Steadily, this turned into more frequent and random abuse. On one occasion a Quiznos worker got my sandwich order slightly wrong (my mom weighed the sandwiches and found out that the weight of them was a bit less than normal) and when I told my mom that I didn't care, that spiraled into a two day session of being called a coward and a failure. Now imagine this multiplied over everything. Changing majors in college, having a girlfriend before 18, not getting accepted to all the UC colleges, etc., etc.
My fathers response during all of this was to tell me that, because my mom was "sick" or "moody" that I needed to be the responsible one and just bear with her tantrums. She couldn't help herself so I needed to help my dad by being the grown up. This did not sit well with me and only led to me feeling like I couldn't depend on either of my parents. Years and years of this behavior have only reinforced to me that my dad enables the shit out of my mom and she is still the same mess that she has been for the last 30ish years because of it. Therapy for this stuff was never on the table because it's just not talked about/done in our culture. I ended up going over many years for myself but my mother never has.
I wanted to give you some idea of what can happen when you are too supportive. I know that you want to be supportive, that you love your wife and that you want to set a good example for your children; however, that's not necessarily what you're teaching them. You can support your wife a lot (which it looks like you've been doing) but you need to understand that unconditional love and support is not a good way to function at all times. Ultimately, if she doesn't want to be happy or know how to find it for herself, your continued support can easily lead to you enabling her depression even more. You can't "fix" other people with your love; they have to be ready and willing to fix themselves too. Do not burn yourself or your kids trying to keep someone else warm. It isn't worth it.
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You have an obligation to get your son away from this woman. You are enabling child abuse. Who knows how much psychological damage your son has already suffered.
I've seen people literally go to jail for "accidently" dropping their baby down the stairs.
He was okay afterward. It happened when he was about six weeks old, a few days after I returned to work from an extended paternity leave. My wife retreated from us for a few days following and said she was afraid of herself and didn't know how or why she would do something like that. I can't say for sure whether or not it was intentional and am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. The birth was difficult and she had to have reconstructive surgery done afterward... she was barely able to leave the couch until nearly three weeks after he was born. Going from rest to carrying a child upstairs would be difficult for her, so I have reason to believe her that it was an accident. At the same time I know she wasn't in a good mental place when it happened, and she had been confessing her desire to hurt him almost nightly.
She was unconscious for 24 hours after her accident. Immobile for nearly 3 months. She suffered a subarachnoid hemorrhage. Every time she lashes out I see her trying to resist herself, but sometimes she can't. I have to wonder how much of that is due to the injury. It is tough for me to hold it against her. I do what I can to prevent situations where her impulsivity will be an issue.
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I've got nothing to offer other than my sympathies OP. I don't think I could do that. As long as you are feeling sustained personally, stay strong. But remember this is supposed to be a relationship, and you're not supposed to be a therapist. You have needs too that deserve to be met.
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A traumatic brain injury and post partum depression may provide an explanation (that's a big maybe) but never an excuse.
Your wife sounds like a child abuser and you sound like a weak person and an enabler. "Mommy's monster"? Wtf? I hope your son can find it in himself to forgive you one day.
I want to highlight this reply because it is kind of how I am feeling.
Make sure when you model "unconditional love" you're not actually modelling "how to let yourself be abused/how to get what you want from others". What children learn from interactions betwen their parents have ripple effects for the relationships in their lives.
I think it's good you put boundaries around having another child and told her to wait. That's something at least. And please no more pets..! It pains me hearing these stories of people becoming animal hoarders and end up neglecting them because they are trying to fill some kind of validation void that is unobtainable.
As someone who shares some similarities of your situation and recently got divorced... don't forget to take care of yourself and know that sometimes, despite all you're doing to salvage the situation...things just don't work out in the end. Prepare yourself for that possibility while still doing the best you can obviously.
You're a great and patient partner, that is clear.
But you need to leave this woman.
You are damaging your child keeping that situation afloat. Think about what their model of marriage looks like as they witness such unhealthy behavior -- her perpetual sadness and your enablement. Think about what you're doing to yourself pouring all your energy into something like that and how unavailable that makes you for your child and yourself. Consider that she might, really, be unhappy with the situation. Not because of hormones but because she's living life that she doesn't want to live -- one that needs to stop being the way that it is.
I don't think you are completely in love with her. I think you're in love with who she was a long time ago and have not accepted the change that has happened in her, and you've made that situation into a monolithic project that only makes you feel good because you are doing your best.
I think she is too cowardly to end it and can't figure out how to sabotage the relationship since anything goes because you'll accept it.
Please break this cycle and leave. For yourself, for the kid, and for her.
But you need to leave this woman.
You are damaging your child keeping that situation afloat. Think about what their model of marriage looks like as they witness such unhealthy behavior -- her perpetual sadness and your enablement. Think about what you're doing to yourself pouring all your energy into something like that and how unavailable that makes you for your child and yourself. Consider that she might, really, be unhappy with the situation. Not because of hormones but because she's living life that she doesn't want to live -- one that needs to stop being the way that it is.
I don't think you are completely in love with her. I think you're in love with who she was a long time ago and have not accepted the change that has happened in her, and you've made that situation into a monolithic project that only makes you feel good because you are doing your best.
I think she is too cowardly to end it and can't figure out how to sabotage the relationship since anything goes because you'll accept it.
Please break this cycle and leave. For yourself, for the kid, and for her.
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You're clearly a devoted partner and parent and wanting your partner to be happy is natural.
I was partly raised by a woman like your wife. She was my grandmother and her moods ruled my life. If she was unhappy, everything I did was wrong and I would be punished. And it was impossible to escape punishment. No matter how sweet, obedient or helpful I was, it was never enough. What I learned from that was that my love and attention were insignificant. I was insignificant. My needs were not important. And I was not allowed to have boundaries. She lived unhappy and she died unhappy. She never acknowledged the love and support she received.
This experience has a tremendous impact on my life. When my husband is in a normal foul mood I have to actively remind myself that I'm safe and that I don't need to fix it. In all parts of my life private but also professional I had to learn to voice my own needs and wishes. It took me a long time to even recognise my own wishes.
You and your children also deserve the love, support and happiness that you wish for your wife.
I was partly raised by a woman like your wife. She was my grandmother and her moods ruled my life. If she was unhappy, everything I did was wrong and I would be punished. And it was impossible to escape punishment. No matter how sweet, obedient or helpful I was, it was never enough. What I learned from that was that my love and attention were insignificant. I was insignificant. My needs were not important. And I was not allowed to have boundaries. She lived unhappy and she died unhappy. She never acknowledged the love and support she received.
This experience has a tremendous impact on my life. When my husband is in a normal foul mood I have to actively remind myself that I'm safe and that I don't need to fix it. In all parts of my life private but also professional I had to learn to voice my own needs and wishes. It took me a long time to even recognise my own wishes.
You and your children also deserve the love, support and happiness that you wish for your wife.