4A Games developer: If Metro Exodus does not sell on the PC, the next Metro will not come out for it (Up: Deep Silver Official Response)

SmAsH · Feb 3, 2019

Questionable Giraffe said:
In what way didn't it work out, do you mean? Was it not profitable for any of the involved parties?

If I recall correctly the game never sold well after the exclusivity period and then the staggered released from Xbox One to PC - a 2 month delay - also didn't keep the hype alive to further push sales as people lost interest, bought it on Xbox, or didn't like the direction the game went. There are a multitude of reasons. I just remember sales not living up to expectations. Source: https://segmentnext.com/2017/11/30/rise-of-the-tomb-raider/

It sold 50% less on Steam alone. The 2 month staggered release on PC and the one year console exclusivity, keeping it from a larger player base (PS4) definitely hurt them.

PS9 · Feb 3, 2019

It's interesting how a company that spent well over a decade establishing itself on PC is destroying so much of that good will in a few weeks.

Claude Augario · Feb 3, 2019

Gatti-man said:
Are you joking right now or do I need to make a chart explaining that you basically just proved my point.

Conkerkid11 · Feb 3, 2019

What's up with users without avatars consistently trolling?

Valdega · Feb 3, 2019

Gatti-man said:
Steam is a store front with decent gamer features. They don't have any significant costs that warrant a 30% cut. They are basically the amazon of video games in that gamers tend to not buy games if they aren't on steam so it's 30% or have less sales. Nothing they do is worth a 30% cut especially when they take on no risk like the developer or publisher.

30% is the standard cut for digital storefronts and Steam offers more useful features for both developers and customers than any other digital storefront. How is that not worth a 30% cut?

The better question is why Epic takes any cut when their storefront is completely barebones and lacks even basic features like cloud saves? if Epic's 12% cut is "deserved," then Steam's 30% cut is downright generous given that Steam has more than 3 times as many features as EGS.

Also, you may not be aware but maintaining a service the scale of Steam isn't cheap. Valve spends a lot of money on servers, bandwidth, support and R&D. That's why Steam is by far the most fully-featured platform out there, even compared to platforms that have subscription fees (like PS Plus and XBL Gold).

Bricktop said:
PC gaming was never "nearly dead". It was down because the new consoles came out at the same time, which happens every generation. At best you can claim digital distribution saved PC gaming, and it would have happened with or without Steam. Steam has helped small development, indies more than anything, which also accounts for it's massive shitty game bloat.

Except it doesn't happen every generation. Publishers didn't stop supporting PC when PS4 and Xbox One were released. Quite the opposite, in fact. There was a clear downward trend in PC game retail sales starting with the PS2 and Xbox. Part of that was because MS poached a lot of PC developers to work on Xbox exclusives (like Bungie and Epic). The other reason is that console gaming growth was far outpacing PC game growth so retailers gave more shelf space to console games and less space to PC games.

You can say that digital distribution would have taken off without Steam but there's nothing to support that theory. We already know that none of Steam's competitors are even remotely as popular or fully-featured. Steam's early competitors (Direct2Drive and Stardock Central/Impulse) all failed as well. Without Steam proving that digital distribution could be a reliable success, the gaming industry might have simply abandoned it (as they did with motion controls and previous iterations of VR).

Morrigan · Feb 3, 2019

Gatti-man said:
Valve charges the same as major platform creators like MS and Sony without doing near the work or investment.

lol? Sony charges for online play and doesn't even have features like gifting, refunds, username changes, notifications on sales on your wishlist... Anyway, how exactly do you figure the amount of work that they all do? 🤔

Taker34 · Feb 3, 2019

Siresly said:
Or how you pronounce Koch. I hope I never have to say it out loud to a person.

https://www.dict.cc/?s=Koch

aliengmr · Feb 3, 2019

Maybe being a timed exclusive on a brand new storefront, for a fucking year, wasn't the best way to maximize sales?

Whatever, that just makes it that much easier to not get the game, so I appreciate the honesty.

PinballRJ · Feb 3, 2019

Eh he might be kinda right, some of the best selling games last year: RDR2, Smash, Spider-Man, God of War and most sports games didn't come out on PC. Metro isn't nearly as big as those games so every sale counts but I could see more publishers looking at this as the PC market becomes more of a mess.

Cipherr · Feb 3, 2019

bananafactory said:
If PC gamers really wanna kill a series they love over this they deserve to lose it.

You got me all the way messed up. This isnt console gaming. I will exercise my rights and remind each and every moronic developer that forgets whose boss what fucking time it is.

So yeah, screw them and their ultimatum. Kick rocks, you won't be missed. This isnt somethingt you can pull on PC gamers. Our platform is to large, the backlogs to sprawling, the alternatives to numerous to think you can bully the consumer around in this space. Ill be more than happy to contribute to teaching this lesson to any developer that needs to learn it. Line them up.

Granjinha said:
I really, really doubt that is the official position from the developers. Must be some stupid isolated employee's opinion.

It has to be. I can't imagine a development studio that would be this silly. The more I think about it the more unbelievable it seems.

Igniz12 · Feb 3, 2019

PinballRJ said:
Eh he might be kinda right, some of the best selling games last year: RDR2, Smash, Spider-Man, God of War and most sports games didn't come out on PC. Metro isn't nearly as big as those games so every sale counts but I could see more publishers looking at this as the PC market becomes more of a mess.

Combat low sales by selling the games on even less platforms....sound about right./s

EGOMON · Feb 3, 2019

Man i remember when 4A Games was praised and loved during Gaf days, i even remember a touching story about them trying to finish a game without electricity or something due to local complication. Gamers are fickle human beings.

Kyougar · Feb 3, 2019

Knowledge said:
Yeah, doubt many boycott. Just like the billion other things gamers said they would boycott this gen

Majority of gamers won't know it is out. Also, it is a tiny bit different to boycott a game because of controversy "x" while it is still on the same store. And to boycott a game, that you have to actually do different things for (install a launcher, add payment methods, trust the new store, etc.)

Umbrella Carp · Feb 3, 2019

I would've thought, in a time when the industry is overflowing with games that people can play, that threatening people like this is probably not the wisest move.

Madjoki · Feb 3, 2019

justiceiro said:
2033 was given away a few times already

updated redux version is at same number, without being given away and I don't think it has been in bundles.
for both 2033 and last light even.

Only game that sold less than 2-5 million according to SteamSpy, was Last Light non-redux, which it lists as selling 0 - 20k copies.
Some how I doubt that's correct.

Here's numbers from 8 months ago, before steamspy hid behind paywall and before recent Metro 2033 giveaway on Steam (though I think it has been givenaway before that too).

Metro 2033 - 4 470 382
Metro: Last Light - 0 <- pretty much confirms that LL isn't properly tracked.
Metro Last Light JP - 1463 (japan physical version, probably incorrect too, SteamSpy calculates assuming that games are globally available)
Metro 2033 Redux - 2 252 257
Metro: Last Light Redux - 2 288 584

So no reason to think it has done badly. Probably safe to assume that Last Light is at 2m+ too.

Alexandros · Feb 3, 2019

Nappael said:
Social media absolutely.

I think I have seen a grand total of 1 article which didn't write about this is a horribly biased pro-Epic manner, and that was by PC Gamer.

I'm sure he means reader comments under the articles which are indeed overwhelmingly against Epic.

Dr. Caroll said:
What this is saying is that even if for whatever reason the boycott is successful (unlikely), it's going to backfire spectacularly.

No, it won't. If a boycott happens and is succesful, the next game will be released on Steam or Epic will have to pay through the nose to secure another exclusive.

Dr. Caroll said:
Especially since Epic have endless quantities of "fuck you" money. They will buy more and more and more games away from Steam. This train isn't stopping. Nothing can stop it.

I would be more than happy to see Epic burn through its cash reserves in a desperate attempt to get people to buy from its subpar service, unfortunately though I think they have more business sense than you or me and they'll stop doing so if they realize that they're throwing good money down a bottomless pit.

aliengmr · Feb 3, 2019

PinballRJ said:
Eh he might be kinda right, some of the best selling games last year: RDR2, Smash, Spider-Man, God of War and most sports games didn't come out on PC. Metro isn't nearly as big as those games so every sale counts but I could see more publishers looking at this as the PC market becomes more of a mess.

Except there are a great many games that thrive on a fraction of 4A's success. There is no reason at all 4A can't put up decent sales numbers.

Well, unless they up and decide to skip off the largest digital store front on the platform, but who would be that stupid?

Paul · Feb 3, 2019

EGOMAN said:
Man i remember when 4A Games was praised and loved during Gaf days, i even remember a touching story about them trying to finish a game without electricity or something due to local complication. Gamers are fickle human beings.

No, it's just that some gamers don't like being shat on by publishers.

Asator · Feb 3, 2019

Gatti-man said:
Are you joking right now or do I need to make a chart explaining that you basically just proved my point.

The way your first post was written made it seem like you thought that 4A was in charge of both development and publishing decisions:

With all this nonsense from gamers about 4A wanting a better cut of its game through Epic it makes me want to buy it on launch day. This is extremely over reactionary by the gaming community.

Even your second post implies this as well

And people would still complain. It absolutely is about a better cut or it wouldn't have been moved. It's a money move and good on them. More money to developers is something that's always good and maybe force valve from taking 30% for the very little they do.

The money from the exclusivity deal will almost certainly go entirely to the publisher (deep silver/koch media), not the developers (4A games).

Dr. Caroll · Feb 3, 2019

Alexandros said:
I would be more than happy to see Epic burn through its cash reserves in a desperate attempt to get people to buy from its subpar service, unfortunately though I think they have more business sense than you or me and they'll stop doing so if they realize that they're throwing good money down a bottomless pit.

Don't mistake cynicism for desperation. They have to be willing to take some losses. This is about attrition. Remember when EA pulled out from Steam? Remember the squabbles with Valve over BF3 and Crysis 2? Remember the hate and backlash over EA games becoming Origin exclusives? How Crysis 3 was a giant flop, especially on PC? EA didn't go running back to Steam as a result. Now other publishers are picking up their toys and leaving, too. Usually more carefully. But they're leaving. Epic represents another side of this trend. It's not about pleasing users. It's about pleasing publishers who have been wanting to ditch Steam for several years. That's the bitter root. Throwing money greatly helps, but the inclination to leave Steam was already there. Epic are just accelerating the process.

I think it's gonna be interesting to watch Take Two. Will RDR2 be on Steam? GTA and RDR are perfect games to push your own launcher. Perfect games for Epic to moneyhat, too. What are people gonna do? Boycott RDR2? Take 2 know they could sell the CD key for RDR2 inside a vial of broken glass you have to chew and people would buy it.

Alexandros · Feb 3, 2019

Gatti-man said:
If you don't want to buy a game because it's not on your favorite store front that's your prerogative. Acting like it's something evil or terrible is really jumping the shark. It's a new store front trying to break into the market this is really standard stuff and is hardly worthy of this kind of backlash.

Here's the thing though: Deciding what amount of backlash is appropriate is my prerogative too. You can't control or put a stop to how the audience feels about a company's business moves. You may think it's too much but a whole lot of people think otherwise and neither you nor the companies can silence them.

cyklisten · Feb 3, 2019

Bricktop said:
It was about the games back then, it's about the games today. Not buying games because they aren't on your preferred delivery platform is idiotic. But yeah, let's kill off an excellent series because we are slavishly devoted to Steam and in 5 years from now makes threads asking why games like Metro aren't made on PC anymore. At least console fanboys have an excuse for not liking games exclusive to other platforms, they have actually go out and buy $400-500 worth of hardware to buy games not on their platform, PC "gamers" literally have to click a button on a different launcher.

What a needlessly polemic comment that just intentionally and willfully ignores any nuance in the problem.
Here´s my position:
- Love the metro and stalker games
- Would be interested in buying the game on one of my already multiple launchers.
- Is forced to install yet another launcher, even though I´m already getting sick of having to make new accounts for every little thing I do, otherwise I have to wait another year to play the game.
- Decide to just simply wait as it´s not a big deal.
- Is somehow the bad guy in all of this with "idiotic reasoning", while the developer is out there "threatening" people to buy the game -- or else.

It´s the exact same thing with Netflix. It was/is a good service, but the way that every publisher want a piece of the pie with their own platform is just annoying. And I don´t feel bad for not subscribing to 25 streaming platforms. The content is simply not good or important enough to warrant this, but the publishers think so.

Deleted member 12177 · Feb 3, 2019

I don't see the issue. If a company doesn't want to support a particular platform, it's their decision to do so. Their reasoning/justification is their own concern.

Brink · Feb 3, 2019

Alexandros said:
Here's the thing though: Deciding what amount of backlash is appropriate is my prerogative too. You can't control or put a stop to how the audience feels about a company's business moves. You may think it's too much but a whole lot of people think otherwise and neither you nor the companies can silence them.

This is true, but in a few years when you're all having a little cry because nobody is investing in high production PC gaming, you can blame yourselves for your tantrums and review bombs.

Alexandros · Feb 3, 2019

Dr. Caroll said:
Don't mistake cynicism for desperation. They have to be willing to take some losses.

"Some" is the keyword here. Epic will keep throwing money around for a while, customers will react and we'll see who blinks.

Dr. Caroll said:
Remember when EA pulled out from Steam? Remember the squabbles with Valve over BF3 and Crysis 2? Remember the hate and backlash over EA games becoming Origin exclusives? How Crysis 3 was a giant flop, especially on PC? EA didn't go running back to Steam as a result.

And how is that going for them? Crysis is a dead franchise, Battlefield has lost a lot of its audience on PC and it's been years since EA last reported Origin account numbers. The only report I could find came out five years ago. Am I wrong?

Dr. Caroll said:
That's the bitter root. Throwing money greatly helps, but the inclination to leave Steam was already there. Epic are just accelerating the process.

They are trying to, but both Epic and publishers aren't the ones that will ultimately decide what happens. Customers will. If customers don't support it, it won't happen.

Dr. Caroll said:
I think it's gonna be interesting to watch Take Two. Will RDR2 be on Steam? GTA and RDR are perfect games to push your own launcher. Perfect games for Epic to moneyhat, too. What are people gonna do? Boycott RDR2? Take 2 know they could sell the CD key for RDR2 inside a vial of broken glass you have to chew and people would buy it.

Maybe, but as you said, it is about attrition. Going against the customer's wishes will come around to bite you in the ass sooner or later.

kaishek · Feb 3, 2019

RobertR1 said:
I don't see the issue. If a company doesn't want to support a particular platform, it's their decision to do so. Their reasoning/justification is their own concern.

then why post?

Anyway, I can see why the devs are frustrated, they must have been working on this for over 5 years, slowly building the notoriety of the franchise and finally poised to fill that void that games like Fallout have left. This Epic thing happens and blindsides them, some I'm sure react like most of us here but a few are like "well hell if you're not going to buy on there, screw you anyway!".

It's a self-destructive opinion (especially since I think most East Europeans who play games do so on PC? especially games like this?) to have, but totally understandable.

Alexandros · Feb 3, 2019

Brink said:
This is true, but in a few years when you're all having a little cry because nobody is investing in high production PC gaming, you can blame yourselves for your tantrums and review bombs.

That is the mistake in crying "wolf!" too many times, no one believes you. Everyone knows that these threats are empty.

dex3108 · Feb 3, 2019

Dr. Caroll said:
Don't mistake cynicism for desperation. They have to be willing to take some losses. This is about attrition. Remember when EA pulled out from Steam? Remember the squabbles with Valve over BF3 and Crysis 2? Remember the hate and backlash over EA games becoming Origin exclusives? How Crysis 3 was a giant flop, especially on PC? EA didn't go running back to Steam as a result. Now other publishers are picking up their toys and leaving, too. Usually more carefully. But they're leaving. Epic represents another side of this trend. It's not about pleasing users. It's about pleasing publishers who have been wanting to ditch Steam for several years. That's the bitter root. Throwing money greatly helps, but the inclination to leave Steam was already there. Epic are just accelerating the process.

I think it's gonna be interesting to watch Take Two. Will RDR2 be on Steam? GTA and RDR are perfect games to push your own launcher. Perfect games for Epic to moneyhat, too. What are people gonna do? Boycott RDR2? Take 2 know they could sell the CD key for RDR2 inside a vial of broken glass you have to chew and people would buy it.

And how many games outside FIFA and Battlefield performed well for EA? Even BF numbers went down on PC. People did went to Origin for BF and FIFA (and now for Origin Access) but their other games mostly suffered. They maybe have enough money to cover that but if games were on Steam too they would earn more money. Obvious example is Ubisoft, event though their games are cheaper to buy outside of Steam millions of people still choose Steam. Same goes for GTAV that sold over 10 million copies on Steam alone. So proof of sales is there.

Brink · Feb 3, 2019

Alexandros said:
That is the mistake in crying "wolf!" too many times, no one believes you. Everyone knows that these threats are empty.

I absolutely think that the recent trend of review bombing anything that people don't like is going to negatively affect the PC market.

Zem · Feb 3, 2019

sleepnaught said:
Guess the next one wont be coming on PC. It aint going to be selling for shit on the Epic store.

If they make another Metro game it'll still be on PC regardless of how Exodus sells, I can 100% guarantee that. That's why this "threat" is so hollow, because they'd never just make another Metro game console exclusive.

Rosenkrantz · Feb 3, 2019

I think it's time for 4A to clarify the situation, either take a side of an employee or distance yourself from his comment with usual "not reflects company's position" message. Remaining silent is the worst course of action in this case.

Roytheone · Feb 3, 2019

Wasn't part of the deal that epic would compensate them if the game sold below a certain threshold? So that means they actually got guaranteed money from the PC release....

Dr. Caroll · Feb 3, 2019

dex3108 said:
And how many games outside FIFA and Battlefield performed well for EA?

Mass Effect and Dragon Age sold extremely well.

dex3108 said:
Even BF numbers went down on PC.

Which Battlefield games are you measuring? Because Battlefield 3 was a huge success and EA's fastest selling game ever. It was also the game where EA turned their back on Valve due to disagreements over live patching processes.

dex3108 said:
Obvious example is Ubisoft, even though their games are cheaper to buy outside of Steam millions of people still choose Steam. Same goes for GTAV that sold over 10 million copies on Steam alone. So proof of sales is there.

That's to a large degree force of habit, though. Sunk cost fallacy. All that stuff. People who are loyal to Steam buy their games on Steam. It's their platform of choice. (And it's easily the best digital platform. Make no mistake.) People who are loyal to consoles buy their games on consoles even if they own a PC. The entire point of these kind of exclusivity deals is to prevent them being able to do that. To force them to do something they wouldn't ordinarily do. Epic cutting a deal with Ubisoft over The Division 2 is very calculatedly designed to prevent Steam fans from playing the game on Steam. it doesn't matter to Epic whether they buy the game on uPlay or Epic. Just so long as they don't buy it on Steam. It's cynical and it's kinda cheating. But don't underestimate how effective it can be.

Some people thought Call of Duty Black Ops 4 was going to be a flop on PC. Black Ops 4 apparently sold 2x more on launch day via Battle.net than the very, very successful Call of Duty WWII did on Steam. As far as digital platforms go, audiences go where the games are. There are hardcore platform loyalists who won't switch no matter what. There are people on the internet who claim to never buy a game that doesn't use Steam. But the average gamer? They already have the Epic launcher installed for Fortnite. They already have Battle.net installed for Call of Duty. They already have Origin installed for EA games. Pretty soon they'll have the Bethesda Launcher installed for all of Bethesda's games. The Elder Scrolls 6 is almost certainly going to be a Bethesda Launcher exclusive. And people will complain. People will be upset. But this is how things are going to be. Every major publisher will have their own launcher. And various launchers will battle for the exclusive rights to hot third party titles.

Dreams-Visions · Feb 3, 2019

Brink said:
I absolutely think that the recent trend of review bombing anything that people don't like is going to negatively affect the PC market.

It won't. We'll continue to enjoy the best experiences at the best prices and we will continue to speak up when shit looks foul. But your deep and generous concern is duly noted.

It's just too bad that console gamers don't have a similar resolve. Maybe online play would still be free on PSN...

Kyougar · Feb 3, 2019

All in all, Metro won't skip PC. There most loyal and fanatical fans are in eastern Europe/Russia. PC is king there.
That would be like Square Enix saying that they would skip Sony or Nintendo if Dragon quest doesn't perform well on it.

Alexandros · Feb 3, 2019

Brink said:
I absolutely think that the recent trend of review bombing anything that people don't like is going to negatively affect the PC market.

I don't. Money talks and these companies know that there's a lot of money to be made on PC these days. The more likely outcome is that they'll backpedal.

Dr. Caroll said:
Which Battlefield games are you measuring? Because Battlefield 3 was a huge success and EA's fastest selling game ever. It was also the game where EA turned their back on Valve due to disagreements over live patching processes.

On PC?

Dr. Caroll said:
Mass Effect and Dragon Age sold extremely well.

Again: On PC? Overall success is irrelevant if the topic is PC sales after switching to their own service.

Deleted member 10551 · Feb 3, 2019

SteveWinwood said:
it's sustainable to ask your customers to pay fees because you can't cover the payment costs from your low take?

I think the costs are higher for EGS right now to do the exact same things as Valve- because they're building up the infrastructure more, and they're having to pay devs to put their games on EGS. My guess is EGS is losing money right now, but they're willing to lose money now in order to become relevant and make mega profits later.

Ge0force · Feb 3, 2019

OutofMana said:
Oh, okay. Yeah the piracy route just seems really shitty. Being that upset but still going out of your way to get the game for free at the expense of the devs seems like a scum bag thing to do. What a mess.

It's remarkable how it's the first time in years that I've heard friends and colleagues talking about pirating a game. They don't see it at the expense of the devs because the publisher got loads of money from Epic anyway. What a mess...

Mr.Deadshot · Feb 3, 2019

PinballRJ said:
Eh he might be kinda right, some of the best selling games last year: RDR2, Smash, Spider-Man, God of War and most sports games didn't come out on PC. Metro isn't nearly as big as those games so every sale counts but I could see more publishers looking at this as the PC market becomes more of a mess.

How is it becoming a mess? It's 100% their fault. Just release your games on Steam.

Kyougar · Feb 3, 2019

crazyfunster said:
I think the costs are higher for EGS right now to do the exact same things as Valve- because they're building up the infrastructure more, and they're having to pay devs to put their games on EGS. My guess is EGS is losing money right now, but they're willing to lose money now in order to become relevant and make mega profits later.

If they are willing to lose money, why don't they do it on the additional payment charges? Right now they lose customer goodwill.

eonden · Feb 3, 2019

BF3 success was mainly on consoles where it finally managed to tap into the COD audience by changing the gameplay. I think this could also be the cause the franchise started to lose steam (ha, thats a good pun!) in the PC market (as well as the move to Origin not helping that much).
A better comparison of EA strategy would be Ubisoft. Ubisoft stayed in Steam and saw its games have better PC performances, making up for more of the total sales %. EA hasnt seen that much of a growth in the PC market despite the explosion in it since early 2010s. Origin as a platform has also not seen any major changes for a long time (you could consider EA Direct maybe a change I guess).

Using BO4 success as a proof of how a game doesnt need Steam is a bit misguided in my opinion. BO4 had a huge marketing campaign and offered something new: the first AAA BR experience. I am pretty sure a lot of people were really interested on that (heck even I was and I dont like COD nor BR). So it is not surprising to see it improved in numbers.
Yes, not all games NEED Steam. In the end, there are many very successful games that are not on Steam in PC. It is just easier.

Samjaza · Feb 3, 2019

Well i was going to wait until next year to buy this on steam anyway because my internet is way to unstable of the epic launchers all ways online requirement.
But it doesn't sound very good.

dex3108 · Feb 3, 2019

Dr. Caroll said:
Mass Effect and Dragon Age sold extremely well.

Which Battlefield games are you measuring? Because Battlefield 3 was a huge success and EA's fastest selling game ever. It was also the game where EA turned their back on Valve due to disagreements over live patching processes.

That's to a large degree force of habit, though. Sunk cost fallacy. All that stuff. People who are loyal to Steam buy their games on Steam. It's their platform of choice. (And it's easily the best digital platform. Make no mistake.) People who are loyal to consoles buy their games on consoles even if they own a PC. The entire point of these kind of exclusivity deals is to prevent them being able to do that. To force them to do something they wouldn't ordinarily do. Epic cutting a deal with Ubisoft over The Division 2 is very calculatedly designed to prevent Steam fans from playing the game on Steam. it doesn't matter to Epic whether they buy the game on uPlay or Epic. Just so long as they don't buy it on Steam. It's cynical and it's kinda cheating. But don't underestimate how effective it can be.

Some people thought Call of Duty Black Ops 4 was going to be a flop on PC. Black Ops 4 apparently sold 2x more on launch day via Battle.net than the very, very successful Call of Duty WWII did on Steam. As far as digital platforms go, audiences go where the games are. There are hardcore platform loyalists who won't switch no matter what. There are people on the internet who claim to never buy a game that doesn't use Steam. But the average gamer? They already have the Epic launcher installed for Fortnite. They already have Battle.net installed for Call of Duty. They already have Origin installed for EA games. Pretty soon they'll have the Bethesda Launcher installed for all of Bethesda's games. The Elder Scrolls 6 is almost certainly going to be a Bethesda Launcher exclusive. And people will complain. People will be upset. But this is how things are going to be. Every major publisher will have their own launcher. And various launchers will battle for the exclusive rights to hot third party titles.

Activision said that it sold better at launch but now that we are months from release when have no idea if CoD is doing better because Activision is not sharing player count. Digital sales are long term thing and if CoD is not selling today and if previous entries were still selling on Steam at the same timeframe we can't really talk about real success. Take Destiny 2 for example, you really think that they would give game for free if userbase was healthy? And as I said only the biggest games have chance to convert players and even that not all of them. In the end there is no doubt that games sell the best if they are available on multiple stores. Epic is trying to prevent that with their exclusivity and that will hurt those games. Deep Silver doesn't have their own store like Ubisoft has so their only bet is Epic Store and current for Metro it doesn't look good.

In the end even though it is not same situation (but it is similar) it will happen same thing that is currently happening with streaming services and market fragmentation. People will get sick of multiple launchers so they will either stick to one launcher and ignore games not on it, start pirating games again because it will be again the easiest method of playing them. There will be part of userbase who wouldn't mind but they probably won't buy as many games as they would on single launcher (tracking multiple sales and deals is tiring, so impulse purchases won't be that common).

Cecil · Feb 3, 2019

If you want your game to sell, do your outmost to reach potential customers. Sell the game where people are comfortable buying it. Encourage them.

The relationship between customers and developers is not a onesided one, where the devs can tell the customers to just deal with whatever shit they have come up with this time, whether it's exclusivities, excessive DRM, mad preorder schemes, microtransactions or anything similiar or related.

GwyndolinCinder · Feb 3, 2019

Nintendo said:
I said the majority won't boycott it. I didn't say the majority will but it. There's a difference between not buying it because of lack of interest and boycotting it.

My point is that even the people interested will forget about it if it's not on steam. This controversy is the most marketing the games had tbh

aliengmr · Feb 3, 2019

Cecil said:
If you want your game to sell, do your outmost to reach potential customers. Sell the game where people are comfortable buying it. Encourage them.

The relationship between customers and developers is not a onesided one, where the devs can tell the customers to just deal with whatever shit they have come up with this time, whether it's exclusivities, excessive DRM, mad preorder schemes, microtransactions or anything similiar or related.

That's Epic's way of thinking, has been for a while. It's why I have no interest in their store.

Nintendo · Feb 3, 2019

GwyndolinCinder said:
My point is that even the people interested will forget about it if it's not on steam. This controversy is the most marketing the games had tbh

Not really. It's not like people actually browse and look for games on Steam's front page. Especially not for AAA titles. People will know about it outside of the store. YouTube/Twitch/social media/etc.

Isee · Feb 3, 2019

I still doubt the authenticity of the post tbh. Epic left the PC market because everybody was a pirate a couple of years ago and now this. It fits to well together and is exactly the narrative a troll wants to promote: Epic and 4A deserve each other and they both hate you anyway.

But the first time I read it... I was motivated to even cancel my Steam preorder. "Then fuck off" was my initial reaction. But if that's my reaction to being "threatened" then maybe that's how he feels because of all the piracy statements...
He should've kept a cool head and try to look at the problem out of his box. His statements are very counter productive, understandable as a first, internal reaction though. The problem is, it's out there and can't be taken back...

deejay · Feb 3, 2019

Let it die, the fucked it up themselves.

Dr. Caroll · Feb 3, 2019

Alexandros said:
Again: On PC? Overall success is irrelevant if the topic is PC sales after switching to their own service.

It's impossible to prove or disprove because none of these companies disclose PC digital sales. And they're not going to. Heck, the only reason we have sales figures for Steam games is thanks to SteamSpy and Valve have gone out of their way to kill that.

Dragon Age: Inquisition was the best selling game in the series -- and Bioware's best selling game ever. One can argue this is solely due to rising console sales. Alternatively, one can argue this is due to EA's PC games doing fine on Origin. It is worth noting that the success of these digital platforms is heavily obfuscated, but that goes two ways.

dex3108 said:
In the end even though it is not same situation (but it is similar) it will happen same thing that is currently happening with streaming services and market fragmentation. People will get sick of multiple launchers so they will either stick to one launcher and ignore games not on it, start pirating games again because it will be again the easiest method of playing them.

No they won't, because launchers cost them nothing. The problem with video streaming services is entirely subscription costs. For the average consumer, buying a new game is literally as simple as installing a launcher. They have no real attachment to any of these digital platforms. They want the hot game, and will go wherever necessary to buy it.

Cecil said:
The relationship between customers and developers is not a onesided one, where the devs can tell the customers to just deal with whatever shit they have come up with this time, whether it's exclusivities, excessive DRM, mad preorder schemes, microtransactions or anything similiar or related.

This is somewhat naive. Look at how bold Ubisoft are being about slowly pushing their games to use always online DRM. Don't like always-online DRM? Oh, well, no The Division 2 for you. No Beyond Good & Evil 2 for you. Of course Ubisoft play nice and AC/Far Cry currently run offline. Which is actually nice because always-online DRM kinda sucks. But if they wanted to push the issue, there's nothing anyone could do about it. The desire to play hot new games will always override complaints. It's all about framing. For example, Red Dead Redemption 2, when it comes to PC, could have all sorts of strings attached to it. Exclusive launcher, intrusive DRM, microtransactions to the gills, and all that stuff. People will still buy it. Because it's a hot, highly desirable game.

Some might note that Metro is a sort of mid-tier game. Likely to sell a few million copies, but nothing gangbuster. Which is true. But that's why they have The Division 2, as well. And likely more waiting in the wings. We are likely gonna see a sea of launcher exclusives at E3 this year. Bethesda will likely bite the bullet and admit Doom Eternal will be exclusive to the Bethesda launcher. Companies like Epic are gonna be using a combination of free games and exclusivity agreements to push people into a position where if they want to play some of the hottest games of the year, they have to play ball. And they have to play it Epic's way.

4A Games developer: If Metro Exodus does not sell on the PC, the next Metro will not come out for it (Up: Deep Silver Official Response)

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