I used to think the same, extremely waffly. But when you consider what he had to defend at times, he was actually pretty good, seemed to also be across his brief as well.
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UK: Sir Keir Starmer is the new Labour Party leader, replacing Jeremy Corbyn
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I used to think the same, extremely waffly. But when you consider what he had to defend at times, he was actually pretty good, seemed to also be across his brief as well.
I could not agree more with this (that fucking mug)
The biggest mistake Labour made was leaning into the immigration stuff. Like, if I didn't think immigration was good, why would I vote for the party that 'recognised my concerns' rather than the one filled with actually racists who said they were going to reduce it massively.
The biggest thing a Labour leader needs to do is LEAD. Be proud of your immigration record. Bring the public to you, make the case. Don't just follow the focus groups.
PS : I don't think people talking about the abandoning of the working class ARE always talking about immigration (obviously some idiots are). We lost the working class for many reasons, one the chief ones is that we didn't speak their language any more. It was all just waffle. We didn't make the case to them that immigration is making their lives better in many ways. We fed into the shit narrative because we were afraid to tell these people that they were wrong. Even Corbyn started banging on about jobs lost to immigrants from the EU even though there is almost no evidence that actually happens.
As I posted above, some of that is coming from minority voices who did back Labour last time around
But sure, as it often is the case, it's easy to say minority voices should just simmer down if they are few and far between (not saying you are doing this). When you are the minority of the population and you have very few outlets to speak or be heard, of course it's probably going to be contained online/social media.
Things can snowball though, and as minority voting blocs have remained with Labour whilst white people ran open arms to the Tories, Starmer probably does have to be eagle eyed to absolutely every possible outcome or pitfall around his voting blocs. It's not so much these minority bases will be like white people and go vote Tory, it's more about voter suppression or the optics of having criticism online or maybe even getting to mainstream media coming from POC aimed at your leadership.
No one is kicking Jess out of Labour, some of us are just saying maybe it was good he didn't put her front and centre.
Lol I didn't even know this was a thing. I'm not quite dedicated enough to go that far!
I don't think he's been chopped because of incompetence, just that he has spent too much time on TV in recent years offering tortured waffle in defence of Corbyn. They need fresh faces and people without baggage.
I completely understand why had to go, just responding to a poster calling him an idiot.
Yeah, i didn't think of that, the shadow minister for Question time and tv interviews label.
Hopefully he can return after a long break.
It wouldn't win them the election but I feel like Starmer should make it a priority to fix Scottish Labour as best he can ASAP. They can win elections without Scotland but it'll certainly be easier with. But while Scottish Labour continues to be Tories but Red they're going to continue to be irrelevant.
Hope he has the balls to stick with his principles now. I listen to his podcast occasionally and he's expressed how he regrets not fighting for left policies harder.
He needs to chop the party off and let it be itself, i think he's into a federal model for the UK.
Honestly, I think they should formalise a pact with the SNP.
Most voters actually LIKE Nicola Sturgeon and it's a clear that the future is either independence or federalisation of the UK (which I think is a good idea)
I know I'm a bit late to this but it's kinda impressive to see so many centrists/right wing people praising Starmer as a "return" to New Labourism. Dude's a big lefty, he was part of the resignations from the shadow cabinet because of Corbyn's weak views on Brexit, not his policies overall. He's a self identified Socialist and was in favour of Corbyn's manifestos. If it tricks those idiots into stopping trying to sabotage the party while they suddenly back all the progressive policies they opposed under Corbyn then great.
I've also seen a lot of Brexiteers praise this choice too, which again is wild.Starmer was one of most outspoken anti-Brexit MPs Labour had lol. The second referendum plan that arguably cost them the election was primarily his baby.
I've also seen a lot of Brexiteers praise this choice too, which again is wild.Starmer was one of most outspoken anti-Brexit MPs Labour had lol. The second referendum plan that arguably cost them the election was primarily his baby.
This last election showed that Labour need to win the dumbs, racist, Brexit-voting electorate to win. They'd never vote for a party that formalised a SNP deal.
A federal model for the UK will never happen because the UK will never allow it. The vow in 2014 was supposed to represent something like that and look at how that ended. Gordon Brown STILL comes out every other month to this day to tank Scottish Labour further by lying more. He's approaching Blair levels of hatred in Scotland.
Starmer is a deer in headlights here, not necessarily of his own fault. The second any Labour leader gives an inch to Scottish politics, the press machine starts the foghorn of "Current Labour leader wants to breakup the UK". It happened to Corbyn, it's already somewhat happened to Starmer
news.stv.tv
That's already alienating some of his Labour voting base in England who do not want the UK to breakup. It'll be used hard against him in the next year or so. Especially if the SNP get over 50% in the Holyrood election next year and begin asking about indyref2 again.
Because Boris on the other hand is just going "No, it doesn't matter how you vote Scotland and it never will.". That is seen as the strong leadership based response. The UK telling a nation to get back in its place.
Cutting Scottish Labour free would be a good idea, but that's a massive fucking risk as well, even if they have only returned 1 MP twice now in the past few elections.
I respect Starmer for his response, unlike Nandy's which was fucking shocking, but I also wish him luck in managing to maintain what he said.
Starmer is a deer in headlights here, not necessarily of his own fault. The second any Labour leader gives an inch to Scottish politics, the press machine starts the foghorn of "Current Labour leader wants to breakup the UK". It happened to Corbyn, it's already somewhat happened to Starmer
Keir Starmer: Indyref2 a matter for people in Scotland
The Labour leadership contender said he wanted a new constitutional set-up 'based on federalism'.
news.stv.tv
That's already alienating some of his Labour voting base in England who do not want the UK to breakup. It'll be used hard against him in the next year or so. Especially if the SNP get over 50% in the Holyrood election next year and begin asking about indyref2 again.
Because Boris on the other hand is just going "No, it doesn't matter how you vote Scotland and it never will.". That is seen as the strong leadership based response. The UK telling a nation to get back in its place.
Cutting Scottish Labour free would be a good idea, but that's a massive fucking risk as well, even if they have only returned 1 MP twice now in the past few elections.
I respect Starmer for his response, unlike Nandy's which was fucking shocking, but I also wish him luck in managing to maintain what he said.
They absolutely don't.
This is what got Labour in trouble. 'We need to win racists, lets talk about how immigration is bad, actually'
You're never going to be more racist than the Tories. Don't try. Also: it's morally terrible.
In most constituencies, you can create a liberal majority, but you've got to not bleed votes to the Lib Dems and the Greens. And if you're third in those places, concede to them! You've got to maybe accept that parliamentary mathematics means you might have to govern in collation, and that's OK! I can't imagine anything better for a Labour Government than involving Caroline Lucas in it.
If people are racist, show them why they're wrong. Be the contrast, not the tories-but-not-as-harsh gang. You're against Boris Johnson. The contrast is being the adult in the room. Mean what you say, work with others, be professional. Stand for things and be able to back yourself up with facts.
Really happy to see Lammy make shadow cabinet.
All these positions are shadow positions as this is the Shadow Cabinet (so who you can expect to be in that position if Labour won an election).
I believe they have Shadow meetings as well, granted they have no real power right now but they discuss matters.
All these positions are shadow positions as this is the Shadow Cabinet (so who you can expect to be in that position if Labour won an election).
I believe they have Shadow meetings as well, granted they have no real power right now but they discuss matters.
I'm not saying they should be racist and anti-immigration, I'm saying that running with the message "we'll team up with a party whose primary purpose is to make Scotland leave the UK" is not something they can educate most of England on.
I liked him too. The media demonized him and the people fell for it as usual.
Nicola Sturgeon does not poll great outside of Scotland
But decent in Scotland only
Why would she poll at that well in the South outside of some Twitter leftists who like her? She campaigns to breakup the UK and to many British Conservatives will be seen as far-left no doubt.
Nicola Sturgeon enjoys '˜highest approval rating in Scotland'
The First Minister is the only domestic politician with a positive approval rating in Scotland, according to a new poll.
www.scotsman.com
There's no way Starmer forming a pact with Sturgeon will help him. Only a continued vote by vote basis when they share interests.
Starmer's real issue is sorting out Scottish Labour and trying to navigate indyref2 in a way that doesn't let The Sun and Daily Mail say he's a terrorist to the Queen.
But he is better looking than most Tory leaders of the last 20 years. He doesn't even look funny.
Not just or the reasons you highlighted. Starmer isn't a great speaker or a charismatic leader unlike what some might think. The Brits actually like Boris for his buffoonery. He was mayor of London for two terms! In one of the most multi-cultural cities in the world they voted for him and only gave Ken Livingstone one term.
I think Starmer is a good speaker? Charisma, depends what style you're looking for. The clean cut, well-dressed and sharp individual probably leans into the electability argument over the trashing Corbyn got for dressing normally, having a beard or being seen as a jam making weirdo.
Ironically, one of the most deprived countries in the West with terrible wealth inequality still want to bang the tambourine to the appearance of royalty. The man whose appearance actually looked more in line with the "normal man" was routinely hammered for that.
But there is Sturgeon always colour co-ordinated and well kept. Although she would make the argument the expectation of women in politics is that is a must, no matter what. And she's probably not wrong, as although Corbyn didn't get away with the laid back style as a man, there is Boris purposefully going every day looking like he doesn't know what a comb is. And the public love it.
He did.
Also the primary reason Barry Gardiner sucks is because he's a Modi stan in an attempt to court the Hindu extremist vote in his constituency. It's cynical and it's gross.
Nicola Sturgeon does not poll great outside of Scotland
But decent in Scotland only
That's an approval rating +39 over Corbyn.
Trump probably polls better in the UK than Corbyn. A lot of the dislike up here will be Labour defectors (disapprove of Scottish Labour, so anything Labour) and our Conservatives. When talking about the man in general in Scotland, there wasn't quite anywhere near as much visceral hatred.
In fact, most SNP voters were probably begging for England to vote Corbyn.
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It's a centre left shadow cabinet, but the Corbyn era has left its mark on policy, the left of the party needs to get its act together and I think it will be OK.
Osborne can call them Marxist loonies, but they seem to be handling themselves better than the 'moderates' did when Corbyn won.
I'd be interested in seeing his definition of "moderate left".
Having said that, I'm mostly happy with the composition of the shadow cabinet.
I was wondering why Jess Phillips was trending on Twitter last night
news.sky.com
Looks like she made it in, in the end.
Sir Keir Starmer appoints Jess Phillips to Labour front bench as he reveals full line-up
She was one of former leader Jeremy Corbyn's strongest critics.
news.sky.com
Looks like she made it in, in the end.
I was wondering why Jess Phillips was trending on Twitter last night
Sir Keir Starmer appoints Jess Phillips to Labour front bench as he reveals full line-up
She was one of former leader Jeremy Corbyn's strongest critics.
Looks like she made it in, in the end.
I know it's a serious problem but calling her position key is pushing it a bit.
I'm perplexed by this response.
A) in terms of the position itself she ran a DV shelter. She's more than qualified for it.
b) during the campaign she gave detailed repeated interviews on the trans issues, explained her stance and position; and absolutely towed back on the dodgy stuff (her initial support for women's place). She gave that interview to a trans journalist on pinknews.
like, I absolutely get people not agreeing with some of her policies or the way she presents herself etc. But it seems like the dislike goes well beyond that. If we don't allow people to correct themselves and move to the right position aren't we in the wrong party?
A) in terms of the position itself she ran a DV shelter. She's more than qualified for it.
b) during the campaign she gave detailed repeated interviews on the trans issues, explained her stance and position; and absolutely towed back on the dodgy stuff (her initial support for women's place). She gave that interview to a trans journalist on pinknews.
like, I absolutely get people not agreeing with some of her policies or the way she presents herself etc. But it seems like the dislike goes well beyond that. If we don't allow people to correct themselves and move to the right position aren't we in the wrong party?
Jess getting appointed is expected and the brief makes sense for her, since she has been vocal about Domestic Violence.
Overall I'm happy with the cabinet so far, it's a centre left cabinet, much more than's Ed Milliband. I'm really hoping the new Shadow Home Secrectary Nick pulls the party position to the legalisation of Marijuana. He's done some great work on pushing the previous government to take a more sensible approach to drugs.
www.google.co.uk
Overall I'm happy with the cabinet so far, it's a centre left cabinet, much more than's Ed Milliband. I'm really hoping the new Shadow Home Secrectary Nick pulls the party position to the legalisation of Marijuana. He's done some great work on pushing the previous government to take a more sensible approach to drugs.
11 things you didn't know about the Welshman at the top of Labour
Nick Symonds Thomas was given the role of shadow home secretary in one of the first appointments by new Labour leader Keir Starmer
www.google.co.uk
The left of the party are still in a strong position if they don't shit the bed and stay focused, the NEC fuck up was self inflicted. Hopefully people regroup and prevent the shadow cabinet shifting further right, it's in a good spot at the moment.
'Shifting further right'.
If Starmer wins he'll be the most left wing PM in generations. His policies and stances are very left wing. He strongly supports the 2017 manifesto.
Let's keep things relative here. This is by no means a centre left, Blair style New Labour cabinet. It's slightly more centrist than Corbyn but policy wise to be frank the main policy is 'he's not Corbyn'.
Keir Starmer *is* on the left of the party.
If Starmer wins he'll be the most left wing PM in generations. His policies and stances are very left wing. He strongly supports the 2017 manifesto.
Let's keep things relative here. This is by no means a centre left, Blair style New Labour cabinet. It's slightly more centrist than Corbyn but policy wise to be frank the main policy is 'he's not Corbyn'.
Keir Starmer *is* on the left of the party.
Don't worry, once the media slander starts and they find some tiny sticking point to roast him on they'll all change their minds again, while ignoring all the bad from the other side.
Feels like he is crafting a more credible party and cabinet to me. Is it as far left as I may want? Maybe not. But no point being exactly what I want if it has no chance of being elected. I believe he has an air of credibility that jc never really had.
It's the start of his leadership, Corbyn shifted his Cabinet over time as well, which is why I want the left of the party to stay engaged and not storm off in a huff creating a self fulfilling prophecy.
I voted Starmer/Rayner and I'm content so far, I voted Corbyn and was really disappointed by the response of the PLP
Whatever, Jess would've taken every opportunity to shit on Starmer if he didn't bring her in. She's a pure opportunist - you can see it in the way she panders and back tracks on every contentious position she's taken. Provide bait for the right, then do the necessary lip service to quieten the online left.
Some people seem to have defined "the left of the party" as entirely centred on Corbyn.
Team Corbyn = The Left, Not Team Corbyn = Centrist Blairite Shills.