And more to the point, while it's a position I don't agree with it's not the social media guy making something up, it's YL policy voted for by YL.
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All these Russian bootlickers, it makes me sick.
Farage has been making a tit of himself, but that's hardly anything new.
Farage has been making a tit of himself, but that's hardly anything new.
Okay, that is actually fucked. Using the position they put forth as one to justify these kinds of threats and harassment is absolute bollocks
It would be hardly surprising if the threat came from a Labour member. There may be a lot of people who hate the left, but the same people really hate muslims.
Huh, looks like the "with us or against us" rhetoric has consequences, well done all involved
She won't get any support from Labour either, the guys at the top want her out
Don't know what you expected, using McCarthyism only enables shit like this.
Don't know what you expected, using McCarthyism only enables shit like this.
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It's so fucking weird reading this thread from the perspective of being from a social democratic country, which borders Russia. Do you really think NATO is the threat to UK's security here? Do you live in cloud cuckoo land?
Regarding Fox News, they're doing the exact same thing as you are: making excuses for Russia. On Russia, the horseshoe theory absolutely is true: both the nazis and the tankies just fucking love Russia for some reason.
Edit: Like do you really think it's NATO holding the UK back from implementing left-wing policies that make people's lives better? The Nordic countries have built the best and most comprehensive welfare states in the world through decades and decades of left-wing policies.
Norway: Nato member
Denmark: Nato member
Iceland: Nato member
Sweden: Neutral, with fully NATO-compatible military
Finalnd: Neutral, with fully NATO-compatible mulitary. They just bought a bunch of F-35s.
It's not NATO holding you back, just like it was never the EU holding you back (fucking Lexiters). It's the UK consistently voting Tory why you can never have nice things.
Regarding Fox News, they're doing the exact same thing as you are: making excuses for Russia. On Russia, the horseshoe theory absolutely is true: both the nazis and the tankies just fucking love Russia for some reason.
Edit: Like do you really think it's NATO holding the UK back from implementing left-wing policies that make people's lives better? The Nordic countries have built the best and most comprehensive welfare states in the world through decades and decades of left-wing policies.
Norway: Nato member
Denmark: Nato member
Iceland: Nato member
Sweden: Neutral, with fully NATO-compatible military
Finalnd: Neutral, with fully NATO-compatible mulitary. They just bought a bunch of F-35s.
It's not NATO holding you back, just like it was never the EU holding you back (fucking Lexiters). It's the UK consistently voting Tory why you can never have nice things.
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The main problem has been the mainstream of western politics poking Putin with a stick but rolling over for that sweet Russian money and oil. We finally start getting our house in order and then start focusing on a small group of politicians who at least have some consistent ideological reason for their position instead of political donations etc.
I just think people should focus on the positive moves going on all across the continent and beyond.
I just think people should focus on the positive moves going on all across the continent and beyond.
Right, the anti-NATO crowd are nothing new, and moreover, are much less relevant here than say, a Conservative government - where the current PM, it should be noted, was at one point the foreign fucking minister - which has for the duration of the wider conflict which started entirely within their tenure just largely sat on their asses about it. Johnson's sudden push of support should be very much measured against a backdrop of 'well where the fuck were you'
This isn't a football match, you are allowed to not think the sun shines out of NATO's arse without in any way "Making excuses for Russia" or thinking they are any less the bad guy here.
It's fine for you to think that, i think our democracy, only viable Left wing party and the house of commons should be able to handle a few people who won't swear loyalty to a military union. I think they have clearly misjudged what Putin is about but it seems a lot of military and intelligence people have as well.
This is exactly where I stand.
For some to suggest the whip be removed from MPs who have expressed these same views is rather telling.
One enables the other, when you portray your own MPs as traitors its gonna have consequences.
Now it's clear that Putin isn't nursing cold war resentment and insecurity, that he's just empire building and acting like a Czar/fascist they won't repeat the same mistake about Putin. He's only going to stop if Ukraine stops him or the sanctions fuck him up at home.
They can still call for NATO to change or whatever.
They can still call for NATO to change or whatever.
What are you even talking about? Show one post in this thread that is "making excuses for Russia". There hasn't even been discussion over criticism of NATO, just over the concept of criticising NATO.
Have you considered that it may not be about how epic your Nordic welfare states are or about threats to the UK's security?
Maybe it's about the next middle eastern nation that will be targeted by NATO the same way Ukraine is being invaded by Russia right now? I can't understand the supposed indignation that some people don't like to see NATO's reputation wholly laundered just a few months after the catastrophic ending of a 20 year old NATO occupation.
Zarah was much more specific than that though. She is basically being called a fifth columnist by her party, her party's MPs, by its leadership and its client journalists. These things have consequences whether you want to admit it or not.
And if we're talking "smears", Johnson's technichally true assertion that Starmer didn't prosecute Savile is much less of a smear than that.
It looks like the only thing many Remainers didn't like about the Crush the Saboteurs, Traitors, Enemies of the People rhetoric was that it was directed at them lol.
Banging on about NATO when fascists are invading a fellow European country is a huge red flag.
Like I can totally understand disputes about NATO and disagreements with Western Imperialism. There's some decent points made honestly.
But right now Europeans, Ukrainians are dying fighting a fascist invader out to destroy their country. If the response to that is still 'But NATO' then there's a problem.
Like I can totally understand disputes about NATO and disagreements with Western Imperialism. There's some decent points made honestly.
But right now Europeans, Ukrainians are dying fighting a fascist invader out to destroy their country. If the response to that is still 'But NATO' then there's a problem.
Things like this don't do much for claims that they're not blaming NATO for Russia's invasion
You don't see how labelling her kind of opinions as "far left", "tankie" or "unwelcome in the labour party" subsequently contributes to normalising that?
It's easy to say you never called for violence but this all contributes to it happening.
Understanding a situation isn't the same as endorsing it - its just taking a realistic view of cause-and-effect, and how the UK (and the wider west) can actually influence the situation. Countries that border Russia can absolutely have a legitimate desire to want to be a part of NATO merely as an act of self preservation, but its also just putting your head in the sand to not acknowledge that Russia will see this as an aggressive move, and might eventually make war more likely. This doesn't mean you support Putin, just that you recognise that we live in a world where he exists.
Also, Lexiters were basically an irrelevance in Brexit, the fact you have even brought them up suggests that maybe you should do some more reading on the topic
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He has, at least disagree on what he has actually said on the subject, this is what people were talking about earlier regarding death threats etc,
Again. i think he's wrong, Putin has no interest in negotiations etc, he is trying to build an empire and he's mad with power.
lmao, what has Boris Johnson done exactly? a few meagre sanctions - they aren't even giving visas to Ukrainian refugees.
User banned (1 week): trolling
Harder pill to swallow for the epic liberals and lefties than the Corbyn hypotheticals, is that if Trump were president this might have not been happening, due to his unpredictability (or he might have started a nuclear war by now).
2,000 NLAWs are being used to kill fascist invaders. That's certainly something.
We should certainly be offering visas and demanding tougher sanctions too.
Never said you can't disagree with them, you're still doing that thing where you label any remotely dissenting voice as therefore being a supporter of the other side. Do you honestly think that someone like Zara Sultana, John McDonnell, or Jeremy Corbyn is pro-Putin?
I explained the logic behind why people are bringing up NATO a couple of posts above. Anyone who thinks such an opinion is so disgustingly extreme as to warrant immediately booting them from the party is either an Authoritarian, or a rube who is having their wallet inspected (again)
You may not have called her a tankie, but others have and are, and that, and other things like "far left" or "pro putin" all contribute to the same rhetoric that does escalate towards these kind of responses, whether you like it or not.
Fortunately the Tories have made clear that they basically won't be taking in any refugees because Ukrainian refugees are going through Poland and Romania, which fortunately enough are considered safe third countries, and therefore not our concern.
I mean yes, its 11 backbench Labour MP's
We all know this has no impact on anything, but Starmer is using it as a chance to purge more of the pesky lefties from the party
We all know this has no impact on anything, but Starmer is using it as a chance to purge more of the pesky lefties from the party
There is nothing wrong with being anti west. Western countries are far from perfect and people have every right to Criticize them.
The problem is it's never the time with these people.
"Why are you talking about this NOW while there's a crisis happening?"
Spool on 2 months
"Why are you still talking about that, it was ages ago".
