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Bending the knee to outright McCarthyism shows exactly how much point there is for a left wing MP to be a member of that party.
Take whip away from Labour MPs who call Nato aggressor in Ukraine, says Boris Johnson
MPs including John McDonnell and Jeremy Corbyn signed Stop the War Coalition letter that accused Britain of ‘aggressive posturing’
www.telegraph.co.uk
Good for you that the phrase "carrying water" means absolutely nothing then.
Take whip away from Labour MPs who call Nato aggressor in Ukraine, says Boris Johnson
MPs including John McDonnell and Jeremy Corbyn signed Stop the War Coalition letter that accused Britain of ‘aggressive posturing’
Because this is what we should be focusing on, not the milquetoast reaction to the crisis from our actual government. How easily distracted.
Not keen on removing the whip for that, The west really fucked things up by hinting at NATO membership but never getting on with it, the post soviet relationship should have been handled better. None of that excuses the egotistical monster in Moscow but i don't think people calling for Russia to withdraw and for peace talks should lose the whip.
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People (meaning the Labour party) whose hands are drenched with middle eastern blood rejoicing about others losing the whip for criticising the concept of NATO expansion.
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Which is all very fair but it's important to acknowledge it's not about the content of what has been said for those who are demanding the whip is withdrawn. They want McDonnell, Abbott et al out of the party by fair means or foul. Which is why Corbyn has the silly status of being a Labour member but not a Labour MP.
Well they have increased the sanctions against Russia , it seems to be much more in line with what other countries are doing.
Ukraine conflict: UK sanctions target Russian banks and oligarchs
Russia's major banks will have their assets frozen following the invasion of Ukraine, Boris Johnson says.www.bbc.co.uk
and I disagree, people blaming NATO for this situation should absolutely be losing the whip. Its gross that they would try to justify russias actions in any way.
2008 was a fuck up, there's nothing wrong with being realistic about things done by our side, Putin is 100% responsible for this disaster today though. I think you can or should be able to see tactical mistakes and missed opportunities without that being something that makes you a political leper in the UK.
The bizarre obsession with Stop the War is basically the revenge of Atlanticists against the fact that they feel forced to say "of course Iraq was a mistake but..." every now and then.
I kind of undestand not wanting the leadership to get rid of you by pretending that it was due to "Putin apologism", but again what is the point of remaining long term in a party that requires fealty to NATO? Did Bush go that far even? What is the point of a left wing Lab MP?
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They are not morons for signing it and they shouldn't be threatened with having the whip withdrawn because of it. Just another stupid move by Starmer.Fortunatly the lot of them seem to be retracting their signatures.
They are morons for signing it in the first place though. have you seen the latest statement from stop the war, its bullshit.
Stop the War Statement on Ukraine – 24/02/22
Stop the War condemns the movement of Russian forces into Ukraine and urges that they immediately withdraw. We...www.stopwar.org.uk
absolute clown show.
Your just as bad as Starmer. Nato are not perfect and deserve to be criticised. Nobody criticising Nato is being Pro Putin.Well they have increased the sanctions against Russia , it seems to be much more in line with what other countries are doing.
Ukraine conflict: UK sanctions target Russian banks and oligarchs
Russia's major banks will have their assets frozen following the invasion of Ukraine, Boris Johnson says.www.bbc.co.uk
and I disagree, people blaming NATO for this situation should absolutely be losing the whip. Its gross that they would try to justify russias actions in any way.
Russian is invading a democratic country and promising to massacre its citizens, and you chose this time to deride NATO and place part of the blame on them?
Yes they can absolutry get the fuck out of Labour. You absolutely *are* supporting Putin tacitly if you are blaming NATO right now. He's conquering a European nation like it's the era of colonialism and you're talking about how the western alliance to defend against Russia doing this is bad? Like on what planet do you think that's appropriate, helpful or in any way advancing the cause of the left?
I marched with Stop the War in 2001 against Iraq. I'm embarrassed by what they have become and this lunacy. It's the Socialist Worker party goons all over again.
It's barely a dozen people, and they ask Russia to withdraw and for peace talks, our democracy should be able to handle that without needing to kick them out. The current situation is all on Putin and almost nobody else even in his own country, the answer to everything shouldn't be internal Labour party power struggles, loudly and strongly disagree and move on.
Thank-you for saying this, much appreciated.
And for the other users in this thread who are defending the Labour MP's who signed that letter - can I suggest you head over to the main Ukraine invasion thread and post your thoughts on Nato 'expansianism' there. There are a number of users in that thread from the Baltics & Ukraine who will be happy to educate you.
Of course, when I say 'happy to educate you' what I mean is 'they'll be exhausted and pissed off at having to reply to your ignorant drivel, yet again'.
Again, i don't agree with them(beyond early post soviet era missed opportunities by the west/nato) they backed down and that should be it, there's no need for talk of removing the whip and the PLP trying to find ways to settle scores anyway.
Why would people burden a life or death thread of another country with UK political and Labour party issues, why would they give a toss about a dozen peaceniks who have no influence.
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To gauge the Labour party's seriousness in their approach to anything, they seem to have stolen the Young Labour twitter login away from them.
Starmer is trying so hard to impress Conservative voters than he's going to alienate a lot Labour voters and probably not gain many Conservative voters in the process, because they just vote Conservative when push comes to shove or Lib Dem for the people who only like their racism to come in the structural variety.
lol
Young Labour will suddenly have the voice, attitudes and passion of a 50 year old who has spent their life in the Westminster bubble.
It's ok, Labour don't need anyone who is currently under 26 to win elections, they'll be getting those 65 year old Tory voters on side any moment now.
Yeah that's been one of my big concerns - Johnson and college talk up a big game about helping people, but when it comes to actually doing it, especially for refugees?
Nah
Nah
It's part of the process for creating Labour politicians. even a few hardcore Blairite ministers started off as Marxist and communist aligned Labour party members. It's not a new thing, just like university politics hasn't suddenly become a hot bed of activists trying to cancel people.
People need to learn how to roll their eyes again.
Actually(to be clear), i haven't paid much attention to the young labour stuff for a while, so if they have posted something really, really bad then i'm not aware of it.
If everyone is shit, who is one actually supposed to be voting for whenever the chance next comes along?
You will vote for whatever Starmer mandates you to do.
I have a choice of Ed Davey or the daughter of Gyles Brandreth, you just gotta do what you gotta do.
You can vote for the party that wants to dismantle the British state in the next 10 years whilst twiddling their moustaches, or you can vote for the party that will dismantle the British state in the next 15 years whilst sitting you down with HR to tell you their reasons.
"Far left cranks"
"Anti West"
Literally pages from the Fox News playbook.
The aim of course for the last decade or more has been "no-one". The whole playbook has been to "Alien vs Predator" it.
Maybe its just because I'm a filthy lefty stalinist trot, but I cannot for the life of me see what is wrong with that.
Wanting peace and thinking the UK government hasn't done enough to stop the current situation(i get why people don't like that implication)
Does it matter? It's "crank", "far left", "cult" and even more mind numbing buzzwords, because being mind numbing, as well as cruel, is the point.
The UK government have been enabling the fucker for years, helping him win elections, as the former head of MI6 admitted, to laundering money of his oligarch backers to ignoring the massacres in Chechnya.
You can't turn around and say pointing this out is supporting him and that doing so is being a traitor.
You can't turn around and say pointing this out is supporting him and that doing so is being a traitor.
User Banned (2 Weeks): Misrepresenting Fellow Member; Inflammatory Accusations
This is a deeply, viscerally stupid position, given what the leaders of nato have been involved with, and are *still* involved with, just in this century.
Yes, putin is doing a conquering like in the era of colonialism and should be stopped. In the same way the nato leaders are supporting saudi arabia doing the same *right the fuck now*. In the same way they support a coutry doing the same to palestine *right the fuck now*. These are all terrible and must be halted, but curiously only the one where brown people arent being bombed to death, the one IN EUROPE is suddenly a massive cause for concern.
But hey, brown people never matter.
Go ahead, support nato blindly. Make it a hard rule. Its fine as long as it stops european blood from being spilled.
Something which has probably been a YL position for a long time (not checking, I'm assuming) and has nothing to do with Putin's invasion. It is now verbotten to be critical up to against the NATO of the Iraq, Afganistan and Libya destructions. Authoritarianism that would be genuinely dangerous in a position of power.