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UK General Election 12th December 2019 |OT1| Hindsight is 20/19 (Tory majority confirmed)

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softfocus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
903
Off the topic of the YouGov poll, the amount of people with their heads in the sand about the NHS being sold off bit by bit is staggering. An old friend said that because the documents don't specifically state that the NHS is for sale, it is a lot of hot air.
Trump has called us, the UK, the NHS "freeloaders" because we get better prices on drugs. It's pretty naive to believe that if we have this """""fantastic"""""" trade deal with the USA, drug prices will not come up and the consequences will be higher costs for the NHS to get those same drugs. Then there's the patent issues, life saving drugs are stupidly expensive due to patents. Yes, companies deserve some money back for the R and D but the US patent expiration time is 20 years!
I work with drug wholesalers, I know the prices. Mark my words, allowing unregulated capitalism into our drugs will be extremely damaging to our communities and our economy.
 
JonnyDBrit

JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,015
softfocus said:
Off the topic of the YouGov poll, the amount of people with their heads in the sand about the NHS being sold off bit by bit is staggering. An old friend said that because the documents don't specifically state that the NHS is for sale, it is a lot of hot air.
Trump has called us, the UK, the NHS "freeloaders" because we get better prices on drugs. It's pretty naive to believe that if we have this """""fantastic"""""" trade deal with the USA, drug prices will not come up and the consequences will be higher costs for the NHS to get those same drugs. Then there's the patent issues, life saving drugs are stupidly expensive due to patents. Yes, companies deserve some money back for the R and D but the US patent expiration time is 20 years!
I work with drug wholesalers, I know the prices. Mark my words, allowing unregulated capitalism into our drugs will be extremely damaging to our communities and our economy.
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Told you, people are gonna ctrl + f 'NHS' and then leave it at that. It's not like it's reliant upon nursing standards or anything, no sirree
 
twofold

twofold

Member
Oct 28, 2017
543
Xevross said:
So basically the lib dems are up 7 at the cost of labour and that's resulting in a huge Boris majority, and with all that the LD's are only up 1 seat? What a fucking useless party, we'd all be better off if they collapsed into nothingness.
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That was your main takeaway? Not how broken and terrible our voting system is? It's ridiculous that a party can significantly increase their share of votes and see marginal returns - fptp is terrible.
 
dean_rcg

dean_rcg

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,270
Just saw the front pages and apart from the Mirror and Guardian there's no mention of the NHS, seems to have disappeared off the BBC's site too.
 

Deleted member 14518

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,731
A good kick in the arse. That's what that model was. hopefully it knocks some sense into people.

Also still think the youth vote turnout numbers are too low. This election is on a knife-edge right now and will only get tighter.
 

brain_stew

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,727
Tygre said:


Labour have 2 weeks to squeeze the Lib Dem vote back to close where it was in 2017. Squeeze them down to ~10% and everything gets interesting.

Hopefully this MRP can serve as a good wake-up call to waverers that a Tory majority can be avoided, but not through wishful thinking.
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They need to be taking Conservative votes from leave seats in the North and Midlands. They're far more important to avoiding a Conservative majority than Lib Dem voters in the south. Labour could do with a few of those going to the Lib Dems as it will take seats from the Tories. Same in Scotland, if Labour lend a few votes to the SNP, the Tories lose more seats.

The battlegrounds are laid out now, it's all about tactical voting and squeezing the right vote in the right areas. A Labour majority is never happening now (nor was it ever tbh) so it's about denying Johnson his majority.

As a North East based member of three Lib Dems I just can't bring myself to actively promote the party on my local area. There might not even be a 1000 Lib Dem votes in somewhere like Sedgefield but I wish my party would stand down their candidates in the region, a hundred extra Labour votes in seats like that could be the difference between keeping these seats red or flipping them blue.
 

Ravensmash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,797
Tories need another dementia tax moment.

Sadly, I think they're playing it fairly safe this time around.

They haven't had a fantastic campaign by any means, but nothing equivalent to the outrage on policy that occurred in 2017 so far...
 
Ando

Ando

Member
Apr 21, 2018
744
Beefy said:
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this seems sensible, the problem with never talking about brexit is it allows boris to get away with pretending his deal isn't a disastrous hard brexit

if the remain vote is going to be squeezed further from now on it's going to be from panicking remainers staring down the barrel rather than any good campaigning from corbyn
 
Joni

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,508
The fun thing is, let's not talk about Brexit and then realize there is still no path forward on Brexit after the election.
 
Protome

Protome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,677
The issue with Labour talking about Brexit is that their position on Brexit relies on EU playing ball on another 6 month delay. Whereas the Tories have their shit ready to go. It's going to be hard to convince Leave voters that the Tory deal is bad for them because they've proven time and time again that facts don't matter to them.
 
Rodelero

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,509

The Once and Future Prime Minister of the United Kingdom said:
I blame the men. I blame the male sex for the appalling proliferation of single moth- ers, to which John Redwood has correctly alluded, by which 500,000 women have cho- sen to marry the state. raccuse men of being responsible for a social breakdown which is costing us all, as taxpayers, £9.1 billion per year, and which is producing a generation of ill-raised, ignorant, aggressive and illegitimate children who in theory will be paying for our pensions.

I blame male Tory MPs in government, first, for robbing the ruling party of any credibility on the moral issues which are coming to dominate politics. It is not so much that they have banged on about one- parent families, while getting their research assistants pregnant; or that they have been uncovered in French hotels sharing beds with other men; or that they have had their toes sucked. The problem is not so much their frailties as the presentational inepti- tude which has allowed these frailties to be mixed in with what was called Back to Basics. With £90 billion currently spent on welfare, the great economic issues of our time are social. They are moral. And yet the Government is virtually incapacitated from utterance by its own bumbling.

I also blame, to a certain extent, the new Moral Re-Armament brigade on the Right for spoiling a reasonable case with ele- ments of silliness. It is outrageous that mar- ried couples should on average be forking out £1,500 in tax to fund the single moth- ers' desire to procreate independently of men. But it is fatuous to hope, as some apparently do, that you can cure this social malady by exhortation, what one might call the Gussie Fink-Nottle approach to the sin- gle parent issue Net married, P.K. Purvis. It's the only life.').

It is also idle to pretend, like Dr Digby Anderson and other male contributors to a fascinating new volume called This Will Hurt, that British society is ready for a return to Shame. You can call, if you like, for the odious and unfair humiliation of bastard children, in the hope that it will cause a pang of regret in their parents and deter potential single mothers. You can call for a revival of the stocks, or perhaps even of the days when adulterers were taken into the agora and a radish or other sizeable vegetable was inserted into their funda- ment. But these prescriptions, thought-pro- voking though they may be, are unlikely to be widely read in the estates of Liverpool or Hackney.

I even blame the otherwise blameless John Redwood for appearing to support the idea that teenage single mothers, of whom there are some 42,000, should be invited to give their babies up for adoption before receiving state benefits. At least, that is the only way I can interpret his rec- ommendation in the Mail on Sunday: 'It is only when and if all these options have failed — if the father, the grandparents, the extended family and the possibility of adop- tion have all been properly explored — that the state should step in.' Never mind the public relations catastrophe adumbrated in this suggestion of Tory baby-snatchers. It seems bizarre, to me, that a right-winger as lucid as Redwood, should propose more state interference in family relationships: nationalising morality and giving the social services even more power to take children away from their parents.

To a large extent, like many others, I blame successive Labour and Tory govern- ments and social security secretaries, including Peter Lilley, for failing to restrict the public emoluments available to this group. It is a bit late to start wondering now about how one might adjust the priori- ty accorded to single mothers in the queue for housing; or whether to cut the single parent premium on child benefit; or whether to build in a job search require- ment for single mothers with children of school age. That should have been done before half a million single mothers found 'Take my partner — I wish you would!' themselves on benefit. No one believes that these girls make a cold and detailed calcu- lation of the benefits that might be avail- able to them if they failed to take their pill. But there is some evidence that the prospect of more readily available housing is an enticement; and it must be generally plausible that if having a baby out of wed- lock meant sure-fire destitution on a Victo- rian scale, young girls might indeed think twice about having a baby.

And yet no government — and certainly no Labour government — will have the courage to make the cuts in the safety net of the viciousness required to provide any- thing like such a deterrent. For the reality, surely, is that nine times out of ten these girls will go on having babies out of wed- lock not because they want to qualify for some state hand out, but because, in their monotonous and depressing lives, they want a little creature to love.

And that brings me to the last and great- est group of male culprits. Most of these single mothers have had the common sense to detect that the modern British male is useless. If he is blue collar, he is likely to be drunk, criminal, aimless, feckless and hope- less, and perhaps claiming to suffer from low self-esteem brought on by unemploy- ment. If he is white collar, he is likely to be little better. It is no use blaming uppity and irresponsible women for becoming preg- nant in the absence of a husband. Given their natural desire to have babies, and the tininess of what the sociologist William Julius Wilson has called the 'marriageable pool', it is the only answer.

Nor is it enough to rely on the Child Sup- port Agency to trace absconding fathers. That misses the point. Something must be found, first, to restore women's desire to be married. That means addressing the feeble- ness of the modern Briton, his reluctance or inability to take control of his woman and be head of a household. Perhaps the problem really is economic: that he feels depressed and emasculated by the state's superior ability and willingness to provide for his womenfolk. Or perhaps something could be done with early morning swims, which generate the vital endorphins; or cold baths, or runs. I have no idea. But that is where the problem lies.
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Xando

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,286
Protome said:
The issue with Labour talking about Brexit is that their position on Brexit relies on EU playing ball on another 6 month delay. Whereas the Tories have their shit ready to go. It's going to be hard to convince Leave voters that the Tory deal is bad for them because they've proven time and time again that facts don't matter to them.
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Also a vote for labour is essentially a vote to remain as their deal will always lose against remain.

I know leavers are daft but I don't think they're that daft.
 
*Splinter

*Splinter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,087
nelsonqos said:
As someone from the South of Scotland, it's great to see everyone just telling us to fuck off down to England. Russel Brown was the MP for Dumfriesshire from 1997 until 2015 when he ousted by the SNP. Guess what party he was with? Labour. It's not as doom and gloom as you think.

The absolute banality just to lump everyone in Dumfries and Galloway as a Tory is mind boggling. It's why most folk down here get pissed off at central belt ideologies. Urbanism at its ugly best.
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By "everyone" do you mean Audioboxer?
 

asustitan

Banned
Jul 7, 2019
3
User Banned (Permanent): Troll account
Just a quick skim through a couple of pages here.

With the majority of this forum being late teens early twenties, no life experience and brainwashed in university, it's pretty clear a democracy supporting leaver would get trampled on here.

Any other leavers coming out the closet?
 
Arkestry

Arkestry

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,920
London
asustitan said:
Just a quick skim through a couple of pages here.

With the majority of this forum being late teens early twenties, no life experience and brainwashed in university, it's pretty clear a democracy supporting leaver would get trampled on here.

Any other leavers coming out the closet?
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Try again, bud, the other one has bells on.
 
Sheentak

Sheentak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,288
asustitan said:
Just a quick skim through a couple of pages here.

With the majority of this forum being late teens early twenties, no life experience and brainwashed in university, it's pretty clear a democracy supporting leaver would get trampled on here.

Any other leavers coming out the closet?
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Demographics are more late 20s early 30s by the way. University educated too
 

Deleted member 5028

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,724
asustitan said:
Just a quick skim through a couple of pages here.

With the majority of this forum being late teens early twenties, no life experience and brainwashed in university, it's pretty clear a democracy supporting leaver would get trampled on here.

Any other leavers coming out the closet?
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Second message.you've waited until now to post anything? Did we hold you down that much from participating
 
Ando

Ando

Member
Apr 21, 2018
744
Protome said:
The issue with Labour talking about Brexit is that their position on Brexit relies on EU playing ball on another 6 month delay. Whereas the Tories have their shit ready to go. It's going to be hard to convince Leave voters that the Tory deal is bad for them because they've proven time and time again that facts don't matter to them.
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don't think it's about convincing people that labour deal is good so much as pushing enough scorn on boris's deal as a sell out motivated by tory interests that the waters are muddied and people default to voting labour because of economic issues instead

worth a try, the FPTP map is very tough if labour don't fix their problem with labour leavers. there aren't anywhere near enough lib dem/green voters left to squeeze in those areas.
 
uzipukki

uzipukki

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,722
asustitan said:
Just a quick skim through a couple of pages here.

With the majority of this forum being late teens early twenties, no life experience and brainwashed in university, it's pretty clear a democracy supporting leaver would get trampled on here.

Any other leavers coming out the closet?
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giphy.gif
 
Blent

Blent

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,172
East Midlands, England, UK
University was fantastic.

It actively helped me develop my critical thinking skills and made me more rational. Interacting more than I ever had before with activist women, people of colour and people living with disabilities was actually extremely eye-opening for me and I think it definitely made me a better, more informed person and citizen.

My left-wing politics were influenced by that, for sure. But to me, it's born out of a desire to elect a government that does more for those less fortunate and more vulnerable in our country, rather than just concentrating on what I want or what would perhaps benefit me the most.
 

Ravensmash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,797
The democratic will argument loses credibility when we've had 3.5 years of utter chaos, much of it caused by Brexiteers being uncertain of what "Brexit" is.

I don't mean just revoke it, but let's have a second look at least.
 
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