UK General Election 12th December 2019 |OT1| Hindsight is 20/19 (Tory majority confirmed)

[Calabi]

One could argue that you keep buring your head in the sand over labour, a party under investigation for racism

58 billion added to their pledge to waspi, and, whilst a noble cause, just not costed with any planning whatsoever.

This is not going to be raised by raising taxes, but by more heavy borrowing - your children and their children will end up paying back £100 billion over time.

Another £100 billion for broadband

these figures dont seem to phase a labour party, its more magic money tree im afraid.

Click to shrink...

Not at all unlike the last ten years which weren't costed and went way over budget still with massive austerity. I think its close to a trillion pounds added to the debt in the last decade and for what, for nothing, a decaying poverty filled society, that will soon end up collapsing if Brexit is fully implemented. And their new manifesto which isn't costed at all, but that's fine. The Conservatives have the biggest magic money tree of all, except its only for them and their rich mates.

 

[alexiswrite]

One could argue that you keep buring your head in the sand over labour, a party under investigation for racism

58 billion added to their pledge to waspi, and, whilst a noble cause, just not costed with any planning whatsoever.

This is not going to be raised by raising taxes, but by more heavy borrowing - your children and their children will end up paying back £100 billion over time.

Another £100 billion for broadband

these figures dont seem to phase a labour party, its more magic money tree im afraid.

Click to shrink...

"Magic Money tree" is nonsense. I don't know why we use these trash-talking points. Broadband is a great example of why your rhetoric makes no sense. You'll say stuff like "Another £100 billion for broadband" while ignoring that we, the public, already spend billions on private broadband, or that increasing high-speed broadband access can also add billions to the economy. You're looking at these things in such a narrow way. We're a country not a household budget.

 

[Geoff]

Labour are better due to having actual decency as well, Tories will sell off the NHS and try (again) to kill off the working class.

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I agree with this, ignoring the AS issue, whilst I fundamentally disagree with their manifesto, Labour's plans are done with good intentions at heart. Where as the Tory brexit is born out of selfishness and racism. I think both would be damaging but if I had to pick one, it would be Labour. I'd rather have a failed socialist experiment than a fascist one.

Ideally, I'd have neither.

 

[twofold]

Their sums don't add up but the FT endorses them?

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Some left leaning economists (and academics - not all the signatories were economists) endorse them, not the ft - important distinction.

Edit - Forgot to refresh and it seems others posted this before me, doh.

 

[electroshockwave]

One could argue that you keep buring your head in the sand over labour, a party under investigation for racism

58 billion added to their pledge to waspi, and, whilst a noble cause, just not costed with any planning whatsoever.

This is not going to be raised by raising taxes, but by more heavy borrowing - your children and their children will end up paying back £100 billion over time.

Another £100 billion for broadband

these figures dont seem to phase a labour party, its more magic money tree im afraid.

Click to shrink...

Vote Conservative to keep the national debt down.

 

[Protome]

I for one am shocked that taking measures to fuck our economy hasn't reduced the debt.

 

[16bits]

Oh, yikes you're like a walking Tory campaign booklet with a similar lack of any kind of knowledge about how the economy works.
And yeah, taxing the rich more and cutting off the loopholes they use would pay for a significant amount of what Labour is promising.

And the publicly owned companies would then generate more money to offset their cost and pay themselves off over time. Amazing how that works.

There's a "magic money tree" whenever it's politically useful for the Tories though. Not to mention their Brexit deal and pushing towards a trade deal with the US are going to be financially devastating for the country.

Click to shrink...

But this tax the rich thing is a complete myth

what it actually is, is tax the upper middle class of workers.

the super-rich cannot be touched. the super companies, business and banks cannot be touched.

And are you seriously suggesting that a re-nationalized british rail will suddenly make so much more money than the private franchises are that not only will they run in massive profit, more than enough to pay off the cost of buying them at top dollar, but create vastly superior services to what we have now?

I remember things ran by governments, they are shambles. Look how councils run (no matter which party is in charge).

Id have more respect for labour if they abandoned the free broadband idea, there must be better ways to spend £100 billion

 

[Flammable D]

 

[Zastava]

Limerobot is supposedly an educated high earner yet everything he says about economics is fallacious bollocks from the dregs of the daily mail comment section. I mean I know you don't actually have to be bright to have a high salary but come on.

That's the second time in quick succession he's pulled a ridiculously high number out of his arse while talking complete ideologically Thatcherite shite that has never been borne out by reality.

 

[Flammable D]

 

[Protome]

But this tax the rich thing is a complete myth

what it actually is, is tax the upper middle class of workers.

the super-rich cannot be touched. the super companies, business and banks cannot be touched.

Click to shrink...

You got something back this up? It is indeed possible to tax the super rich and big corporations, we just don't do it now because the Tories make more money off their rich friends than by taxing them.

And are you seriously suggesting that a re-nationalized british rail will suddenly make so much more money than the private franchises are that not only will they run in massive profit, more than enough to pay off the cost of buying them at top dollar, but create vastly superior services to what we have now?

Click to shrink...

I never said that? It'll take time, but assuming some stupid ass Tory party doesn't sell it off again later for short term profit, yeah it'll pay itself off over time.

 

[Semfry]

the super-rich cannot be touched.

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Why

 

[16bits]

Also 100 billion for broadband lol you just made that the fuck up.

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But of course im quoting an interview from the chair of BT who explicitly stayed that Labour had their sums wrong.

I guess he knows a little more than you or i about the actual costs.

 

[*Splinter]

Id have more respect for labour if they abandoned the free broadband idea, there must be better ways to spend £100 billion

Click to shrink...

No, you wouldn't

 

[Protome]

But of course im quoting an interview from the chair of BT who explicitly stayed that Labour had their sums wrong.

I guess he knows a little more than you or i about the actual costs.

Click to shrink...

The chair of BT is pretty unbiased on this issue too of course.

 

[16bits]

Why

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They do not get paid like you or i

 

[JonnyDBrit]

Geoff So apparently it was a 'Stop Labour Lies' banner, and they've been going around to a bunch of landmarks taking photos with it

 

[iapetus]

Id have more respect for labour if they abandoned the free broadband idea

Click to shrink...

 

[Semfry]

They do not get paid like you or i

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Almost like something should be done about it, rather than "that's just how it is" 🤔

 

[Protome]

Almost like something should be done about it, rather than "that's just how it is" 🤔

Click to shrink...

Maybe if we kill more poor people it'll fix itself?

 

[Stuart444]

Again, I'll say once more.

You vote Tory, you're voting against the disabled, the poor and other minorities. 9 YEARS in Govt proves this.

And on top of that, The Tories have a huge magic money tree wasted on things that are much less useful than broadband.

Brexit coins? Brexit no deal adverts while promising to get a deal. Something about Grayling and Ferries. etc.

Oh and don't forget the punitive assessments crap for stuff like PiP where 90% of appeals are successfully and it ends up costing far more money than if they did the assessments fairer in the first place instead of denying people just to cut people on benefits.

Could easily go on but again, one last time

VOTE TORY AND YOU'RE VOTING TO HURT THE MOST VULNERABLE OF OUR SOCIETY.

 

[Audioboxer]

But this tax the rich thing is a complete myth

what it actually is, is tax the upper middle class of workers.

the super-rich cannot be touched. the super companies, business and banks cannot be touched.

And are you seriously suggesting that a re-nationalized british rail will suddenly make so much more money than the private franchises are that not only will they run in massive profit, more than enough to pay off the cost of buying them at top dollar, but create vastly superior services to what we have now?

I remember things ran by governments, they are shambles. Look how councils run (no matter which party is in charge).

Id have more respect for labour if they abandoned the free broadband idea, there must be better ways to spend £100 billion

Click to shrink...

Are you the guy on £80,000 who was going mad on BBCQT because he might see his taxes end up £8 more a week?

Also the super-rich are the ones lobbying the fuck against Corbyn because he's saying he'll close tax loopholes.

 

[Geoff]

Geoff So apparently it was a 'Stop Labour Lies' banner, and they've been going around to a bunch of landmarks taking photos with it

Click to shrink...

Such a rubbish slogan.

We disagree with Labour non-specifically!

 

[Deleted member 8463]

Some left leaning economists (and academics - not all the signatories were economists) endorse them, not the ft - important distinction.

Edit - Forgot to refresh and it seems others posted this before me, doh.

Click to shrink...

Yep, stand corrected. Dat paywall.

 

[electroshockwave]

And are you seriously suggesting that a re-nationalized british rail will suddenly make so much more money than the private franchises are that not only will they run in massive profit, more than enough to pay off the cost of buying them at top dollar, but create vastly superior services to what we have now?

I remember things ran by governments, they are shambles. Look how councils run (no matter which party is in charge).

Click to shrink...

East Rail was running a profit under public ownership (which occurred due to private mismanagement). Surely it's better that that money is used to increase public funds rather than shareholders wealth? Or weirdly given to companies belonging to foreign states? Vast amounts of public money are already spent on infrastructure and maintenance and these companies reap the rewards.

Councils have their budgets cut by conservative governments and then don't function well. Quelle surprise.

 

[Herman The Tosser]

But of course im quoting an interview from the chair of BT who explicitly stayed that Labour had their sums wrong.

I guess he knows a little more than you or i about the actual costs.

Click to shrink...

Hahahaha.

No vested interest there whatsoever.

 

[16bits]

The chair of BT is pretty unbiased on this issue too of course.

Click to shrink...

I guess this is an unwinnable argument

You have decided that the labour sums of £58 billion are correct, called me a liar, and when i quote a source you call them bias.

There is a logical fallacy you are playing out.

Even if we use your demonstrably incorrect figure of £58 billion, it's still a waste. We will pay for fiber to green boxes and copper to the home whilst the rest of the world is investing in 5G

 

[CD_93]

On brand.

 

[Protome]

I guess this is an unwinnable argument

You have decided that the labour sums of £58 billion are correct, called me a liar, and when i quote a source you call them bias.

There is a logical fallacy you are playing out.

Even if we use your demonstrably incorrect figure of £58 billion, it's still a waste. We will pay for fiber to green boxes and copper to the home whilst the rest of the world is investing in 5G

Click to shrink...

Tbf I never called you a liar. I've only called you ignorant. I'm sure you believe the bullshit you peddle.

 

[jelly]

Why do we never hear Davids plan, isn't that his fucking job.

 

[Deleted member 8463]

One could argue that you keep buring your head in the sand over labour, a party under investigation for racism

58 billion added to their pledge to waspi, and, whilst a noble cause, just not costed with any planning whatsoever.

This is not going to be raised by raising taxes, but by more heavy borrowing - your children and their children will end up paying back £100 billion over time.

Another £100 billion for broadband

these figures dont seem to phase a labour party, its more magic money tree im afraid.

Click to shrink...

I'm not burying my head in the sand you fucking nipple - there is no institutional racism in the anti-racism party. Plenty of bellends on twitter who support Labour, not statistically high mind. It'll be taxes and borrowing. And you know what, that's fucking fine. How do you feel about a mortgage? Pay bits off for ages and in the end you've got a nice house. Borrowing to invest in services is absolutely fine, good even. What the tories manage is excess borrowing for ???
Didn't you hear? We found the magic money tree, it's in the Cayman Islands.

But of course im quoting an interview from the chair of BT who explicitly stayed that Labour had their sums wrong.

I guess he knows a little more than you or i about the actual costs.

Click to shrink...

Yep, trustworthy source that, definitely no vested interests from the chair of BT.

 

[Protome]

I for one am sure that the party who has proven themeselves to be complete fucking disasters when it comes to running an economy will have a very accurate and unbiased analysis of Corbyn's manifesto.

 

[FliX]

On brand.

Click to shrink...

If you have nothing to sell yourself, might as well swing mud at the competition.

 

[Geoff]

The Labour majority has dropped on betfair exchange to 28 (27/1). Which is good news for Labour fans because it was out at 44 (43/1) last week.

 

[pulsemyne]

Basically they are going to try and refresh the bollocks they spoke earlier in the campaign about the manifesto costing X number of billions.

 

[Protome]

It amazes me that the Tories don't even try to win some of the youth vote. Stunts like this one are just going to drive them further away.

Do you know who doesn't care about your bullshit claims about the cost of Corbyn's manifesto? The people who are eating of out foodbanks because of your party. The people who will probably never own a house because of your party. The people who are saddled with masses of student debt because of your party.

You can't systematically damage their lives then go "but this other guy will cost money and all he's going to do is make your lives better."

 

[theaface]

On brand.

Click to shrink...

 

[Bony Manifesto]

On brand.

Click to shrink...

Funny how the Conservatives are obsessed with costing Labour's manifesto, but no so keen on costing their own...

 

[Flammable D]

I guess this is an unwinnable argument

You have decided that the labour sums of £58 billion are correct, called me a liar, and when i quote a source you call them bias.

There is a logical fallacy you are playing out.

Even if we use your demonstrably incorrect figure of £58 billion, it's still a waste. We will pay for fiber to green boxes and copper to the home whilst the rest of the world is investing in 5G

Click to shrink...

As opposed to you deciding 58 is incorrect because bt told you it was

 

[16bits]

Are you the guy on £80,000 who was going mad on BBCQT because he might see his taxes end up £8 more a week?

Also the super-rich are the ones lobbying the fuck against Corbyn because he's saying he'll close tax loopholes.

Click to shrink...

Imagine, if you will, going out to do a job tomorrow.

You have costed up your time, knowledge, skills and materials and it will be £100

But instead of taking home £100, what the job was worth, you actually take home £50.

It also bumps up your NHS conttibutions. Take a slice for council tax.

Anything you buy with whats leftover you have to pay VAT, and perhaps fuel duty.

You have to love 50% tax

 

[Audioboxer]

Imagine, if you will, going out to do a job tomorrow.

You have costed up your time, knowledge, skills and materials and it will be £100

But instead of taking home £100, what the job was worth, you actually take home £50.

It also bumps up your NHS conttibutions. Take a slice for council tax.

Anything you buy with whats leftover you have to pay VAT, and perhaps fuel duty.

You have to love 50% tax

Click to shrink...

This has to be trolling.

 

[FliX]

Imagine, if you will, going out to do a job tomorrow.

You have costed up your time, knowledge, skills and materials and it will be £100

But instead of taking home £100, what the job was worth, you actually take home £50.

It also bumps up your NHS conttibutions. Take a slice for council tax.

Anything you buy with whats leftover you have to pay VAT, and perhaps fuel duty.

You have to love 50% tax

Click to shrink...

As long as the public services are accordingly I would welcome a 50% tax!

 

[Kalor]

Imagine, if you will, going out to do a job tomorrow.

You have costed up your time, knowledge, skills and materials and it will be £100

But instead of taking home £100, what the job was worth, you actually take home £50.

It also bumps up your NHS conttibutions. Take a slice for council tax.

Anything you buy with whats leftover you have to pay VAT, and perhaps fuel duty.

You have to love 50% tax

Click to shrink...

That's not how it works at all. The people who are struggling to get by at £100 certainly aren't going to get taxed that much.

 

[Geoff]

What the fuck are NHS contributions?

 

[Flammable D]

Imagine, if you will, going out to do a job tomorrow.

You have costed up your time, knowledge, skills and materials and it will be £100

But instead of taking home £100, what the job was worth, you actually take home £50.

It also bumps up your NHS conttibutions. Take a slice for council tax.

Anything you buy with whats leftover you have to pay VAT, and perhaps fuel duty.

You have to love 50% tax

Click to shrink...

What the fuck is this

 

[Deleted member 8463]

East Rail was running a profit under public ownership (which occurred due to private mismanagement). Surely it's better that that money is used to increase public funds rather than shareholders wealth? Or weirdly given to companies belonging to foreign states? Vast amounts of public money are already spent on infrastructure and maintenance and these companies reap the rewards.

Councils have their budgets cut by conservative governments and then don't function well. Quelle surprise.

Click to shrink...

I don't think they've been on a train for a while. Try northern rail lol. Competition was never going to work on our rail network it was always fucking insane to sell it off.

It amazes me that the Tories don't even try to win some of the youth vote. Stunts like this one are just going to drive them further away.

Do you know who doesn't care about your bullshit claims about the cost of Corbyn's manifesto? The people who are eating of out foodbanks because of your party. The people who will probably never own a house because of your party. The people who are saddled with masses of student debt because of your party.

You can't systematically damage their lives then go "but this other guy will cost money and all he's going to do is make your lives better."

Click to shrink...

Boris has told people to register zero times. They're actively discourting the youth vote.

 

[Dyno]

Imagine, if you will, going out to do a job tomorrow.

You have costed up your time, knowledge, skills and materials and it will be £100

But instead of taking home £100, what the job was worth, you actually take home £50.

It also bumps up your NHS conttibutions. Take a slice for council tax.

Anything you buy with whats leftover you have to pay VAT, and perhaps fuel duty.

You have to love 50% tax

Click to shrink...

Imagine if you will living off 12k a year like I do. I'm sure you can't

 

[Jonnax]

I guess this is an unwinnable argument

You have decided that the labour sums of £58 billion are correct, called me a liar, and when i quote a source you call them bias.

There is a logical fallacy you are playing out.

Even if we use your demonstrably incorrect figure of £58 billion, it's still a waste. We will pay for fiber to green boxes and copper to the home whilst the rest of the world is investing in 5G

Click to shrink...

I really don't understand this "Fixed broadband is over 5G is the future" idea that keeps being trotted around.

Wireless transmission requires spectrum. There's only so many users that can use the network at the same time.

5G optimises how many users can occupy the same amount of spectrum. The high speeds is so that users quickly get their data and don't spend a long time consuming it.

Go to a busy station in London, you will not be able to use your phone internet all that well.

It's just like WiFi hotspots and how in a block of flats, you're not going to be able to use 2.4ghz well at all because theres so many access points.

Of course 5G is going to make it better. Milimeter wave might improve it in crowded areas.

But 5G as an alternative to fixed broadband?
How is that going to get people on gigabit broadband? Lol, Stadia will never work.

Also FTTC has 88% of the UK covered by it.
The goal of of this is FTTP not FTTC.



Source:
Google:
fttc percentage of households

It's the first link from ofcom.

 

[Xun]

Imagine, if you will, going out to do a job tomorrow.

You have costed up your time, knowledge, skills and materials and it will be £100

But instead of taking home £100, what the job was worth, you actually take home £50.

It also bumps up your NHS conttibutions. Take a slice for council tax.

Anything you buy with whats leftover you have to pay VAT, and perhaps fuel duty.

You have to love 50% tax

Click to shrink...

lol

I'm not quite sure why people aren't already ignoring you.

 

[kradical]

Imagine, if you will, going out to do a job tomorrow.

You have costed up your time, knowledge, skills and materials and it will be £100

But instead of taking home £100, what the job was worth, you actually take home £50.

It also bumps up your NHS conttibutions. Take a slice for council tax.

Anything you buy with whats leftover you have to pay VAT, and perhaps fuel duty.

You have to love 50% tax

Click to shrink...

Literally the dumbest post in this entire thread