-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
UK General Election 12th December 2019 |OT1| Hindsight is 20/19 (Tory majority confirmed)
- Thread starter Uzzy
- Start date
- Status
If you don't care then a referendum is pointless then anyhow, go directly for revoke.
mutually beneficial voting pacts with the convenient narrative of "remain alliance" make sense for smaller parties who all benefit a lot from messing with the limitations of a grossly unfair FPTP system. green issues and welsh independence benefit from more mp's as they are starting from a small base.
they don't make sense for the two large parties because it's not true despite what the lib dems say that remain identity is the only important thing in this election and doing so obscures large, significant and important divides over a lot of issues that voters need to decide over themselves
they don't make sense for the two large parties because it's not true despite what the lib dems say that remain identity is the only important thing in this election and doing so obscures large, significant and important divides over a lot of issues that voters need to decide over themselves
If really the UK wants to live outside of the EU, then instead of rushing all-in into No Deal and inflict upon itself untold misery, leaving quietly, going Norway, and then gradually separating itself step by step from the EU is a much more pragmatic approach. It will take years, but that's the safer way to do it.
Though obviously, after all these years, the gammon generation will be dead and buried and no one will want to be outside of the EU.
But if you want to entertain the thought that Brexit is not just an insane racist Boomer wet dream, it's quite a reasonable way to do it.
Labour pushing revoke would lose them the election. This is the best case compromise scenario. There's no point pissing and moaning about it, we need to make it work.
I've edited my first post to actually make an argument. It's not about placating the hardcore, because that is literally impossible. It's about allowing the "not thinking leave is a good idea but we should respect the vote" crowd to have their concerns addressed because right now revoking is not a particularly popular strategy with anybody but the most committed remainers.
Likelihood of a LD/Tory coalition with a promised 2nd referendum compared to a LD/Labour coalition with Corbyn and 3/4 of a socialist shadow cabinet stepping down?
I don't see any other realistic outcome.
I don't see any other realistic outcome.
The Jewish Labour movement also won't support Corbyn. This isn't about the JC
It's possible to simultaneously believe labour have an anti-Semitism problem (which I think is undeniable) but it will also work harder to fight and correct it (although it seems most Jewish organizations don't believe that will happen under Corbyn) than the conservatives and their overall racist attitudes.
I would love to hold that optimism that remain would win, but not sure how sustainable being in the SM will no say in the long run, although it's probably better politically since leavers won't shut up if it were to happen and another referendum would happen down the road
But if Brexiters boycott that referendum boy oh boy do you have a legitimacy issue
Labour/SNP. The problem with that is that the SNP might not be enough on their own if Labour don't do well enough but in that case neither would the Lib Dems.
All the talk of no pacts or coalitions is nonsense in an election campaign. We know when it comes time to form a government that possibility will always be on the table if there is no majority.
Tory GE disaster day 3.
Of course, it's a safe seat, but shit like this will turn off swing voters and moderates. They cannot win a majority with just the HC base. Just like labour, bad optics by the cons in the age of MeToo.
I was implying that Lib Dem seats and Tory seats are interchangeable. See 2010, and/or Jo Swinson's voting record.
I'm not sure that's necessarily a problem. I just think the most prominent Jewish publications/organisations with the most money, happen to be (not surprisingly) headed by massive Tories. Their voice is then amplified because it's good for beating Labour with.
It doesn't mean the average Jewish person in the street agrees.
You wouldn't have new elections now if that was even 10% true.
We live in a world where Johnson can say actual racist shit and not be called on it, so why should Labour even waste time trying to fight these accusations? People won't be convinced at this point.
How about you don't do that. LDs, while disappointing in many ways, are almost always better on civil liberties, women's rights, LBGTQ rights (Tim Farron is a weird outlier), immigrant rights, being less racist (note I didn't say not racist), the NHS, the environment and of course the big one, Brexit. These things matter. Tories on the other hand, don't give a fuck or are atrocious about all of these things and are much worse on even the economic/austerity stuff that the LDs were/are shit on.
I'm sure it's satisfying for Labour partisans to pretend the LDs are just a different flavour of Tory but there are significant differences, and given it is a binary choice in many areas, I'll take someone who will vote the right way half the time over someone who will vote the right way none of the time.
spot on. it's also a complete joke to ignore the difference between a boris disaster capitalist brexit which hands over the economy and nhs to whims of big american companies, and eu citizens to the horrors of the hostile environment and the lib dems who are remain.
it makes me feel horrible to back them given the state of schools, hospitals, homelessness, food banks usage, i want corbyn as pm, i want labour policies, but this is so much more important in my seat (tory/lib dem marginal). they are not the same.
Lib Dems being marginally better than the Tories (bearing in mind that a good chunk of them now actually are Tories) doesn't matter if ultimately their votes will be used to prop up a Tory government. The Lib Dems don't care about losing Labour seats in Labour/Tory marginals because propping up a Tory government is probably a more desirable outcome for them. It's just disappointing to see the Greens going along with it when you consider what this means from an environmental perspective.
He's a former advisor to Caroline Lucas.
He's a former advisor to Caroline Lucas.
When they don't have a party leader that's voted with the Tory whip more often than certain Tory cabinet members, maybe I'll consider them anything other than a way of voting Tory without feeling like a bad person. As is, they're living proof of the adage that "Liberals hate socialists more than fascists."
This is rubbish. Bristol West and Stroud are definitely vulnerable for the Greens.
The Stroud that in 2017 that swing to Labour with 47%, a gain of 9.3%, over the Tories with 45.9% and Greens on 2.2%?
Yes, I agree, fuck
I mean even if you're right, it's still better than letting a Tory in.
The lib dems are fucking garbage but I'd vote for them ten times out of ten if it was them or the tories
You don't get to just conveniently ignore the coalition and the recent intake of Tory MPs.
What they claim to stand for with regard to the things you list are irrelevant if their past and very possible future actions as a party go against them.
Ultimately in a LD/Tory marginal I would rather the LD wins, but my concern is what they're going to do in Tory/Labour marginals.
Isn't this pact about ensuring that Remainers have the best chance of being voted in?
Labour aren't in the pact or a remain party so it's fine for Lib Dem's to stand against them.
Purdah is great. Makes you wish for all year round.
The JC is an embarrassment, I'm surprised anyone gave that shitrag credence. Apartheid paper. I'm not actually surprised that Garfield posted it tho
The JC is an embarrassment, I'm surprised anyone gave that shitrag credence. Apartheid paper. I'm not actually surprised that Garfield posted it tho
My entire point is that no, it isn't, all they do is enable Tory policies and act sad about it.
Jo Swinson voted for fracking, for academies and against the EMA, against legal aid, against welfare, for warfare (but against improving conditions for soldiers), for taxes on the poor, against taxes on the rich.
Yes, she voted for same-sex marriage, but then so did David fucking Cameron. I'm sure being able to be with your disabled spouse when they die of exposure is a comfort, but it's a cold one. (No pun intended)
Not when the only path to remain is with Labour in power! Pushing for a remain Green or Lib Dem does not get us closer to remain if it results in a Tory win in a Lab/Tory marginal. Which plenty of those seats are.
Honestly, remain-brain is a disease. It's causing people to be totally blind to how we would even get to a remain outcome, and totally ignores all the other massively pressing issues that the candidates their supporting are either the cause of or are offering totally inadequate solutions to.
Last edited:
Luckily no one will give him the time of day due to how much of a shit he has been with the allegations and already stepping down and not standing once more.
Lol damn. Oh and to add injury to insult, he did the speech under a fucking CONCORDE. You know the project that had billions spent on it and failed miserably. Shades of may too.
Last edited:
Because frankly it's suited the political leaders of Israel to turn any criticism of Israel into antisemitism (and to be fair some criticism certainly is or strays that line), but over time the result of that is to weaken any accusation of antisemitism regardless of how valid it is. Put simply the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has went on too long, and it's polarised too many people and that polarisation has both encouraged antisemitism but also weakened the definition of it so much that it's not quite the boy who cried wolf because there's continually a shit ton of wolves wandering through the village, it's just when every dog is called a wolf then it harder to identify an actual wolf.
There's also the base issue you're always going to get when you have an ethno-religous state: namely that criticism of the state becomes too easily intertwined with criticism of the religion or ethnicity especially by people (on both sides) with bad intentions.
Hypothetically, if I'm someone who doesn't think I'm antisemitic and who doesn't have negative or perjorative views about Jewish people, and I don't like the Israeli states treatment of the Palestinians and I get accused of antisemitism for saying that, how you do think I react when I hear other people getting accused of antisemitism? There's sadly a ton of actual antisemitism out there, but when Noam Chomsky is being called an antisemite for his position on the Israeli/Palestine issue then then whole issue of definition of antisemitism becomes so contentious.
Revoking also leads to the next election being fought with a strong "Get the traitors out and we'll actually Brexit like you wanted" campaign from the Tories. If the revocation was the Will of the People™ then that would be harder to do.
We've spent the last three and a half years fighting Brexit and the last four and a half years fighting the Tories from the opposition benches.
On the Lib Dems. They won't end up in coalition or confidence and supply with the Tories. Not just because of Brexit, but Clegg had to talk awfully quickly in 2010 to get the party members on board with the coalition (the Lib Dems operate a tripartite vote for such things and each leg needs to agree to it so the members had an effective veto) and essentially blackmailed them because the party didn't have enough cash to fight another election. Lib Dem party members will never agree to another coalition.
Ultimately if you're a Labour voter in a Tory/Lib marginal, the Lib Dem MP may disappoint you, but the Tory MP certainly will. Similarity Lib Dem voters in Tory/Lab marginals have the same calculation. FPTP often means voting for the party you hate least.
Ultimately if you're a Labour voter in a Tory/Lib marginal, the Lib Dem MP may disappoint you, but the Tory MP certainly will. Similarity Lib Dem voters in Tory/Lab marginals have the same calculation. FPTP often means voting for the party you hate least.
I've seen you say this so many times it's your very own Strong and Stable.
It is correct though.
I'm sorry, I wasn't aware "cheerleading (and voting) for austerity" counted as "Fighting the Tories". Is this a new definition?
Just had a conversation with someone who doesn't like Corbyn because he didn't wear a tie to meet the queen and didn't sing the national anthem...
I wonder if Tories think of Baroness Warsi the way a lot of Labour supporters think of Kate Hoey.
They don't give a fuck about racism full stop, unless it's for point scoring, e.g. see Michael Gove.
- Status