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WhovianGamer

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,033
well i mean a better society for all is a break

It is, but is a bitter thing to take when my parents generation were largely fine and the lot after me are catching the breaks. My wife and I have a child now and could do with a break or two. We don't qualify for anything and are just over the limit for any sort of means tested assistance. I'm paying over £150 a month on student loans alone, then having to put in 9% for pension.
 

Jexhius

Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
965
EDIT: And I guess I disagree with your main point anyway. Criticising a generalised attack on billionaires in terms of the effectiveness of its messaging is a different argument to saying it is inherently unfair to attack billionaires.

A more specific attack can say that the system we have is currently unfair, and allows people like this *points to bad people* to become ridiculously wealthy from immoral practices and allows them to contribute nothing to society. Just saying "Being a billionaire is bad" can be too easily twisted into the old attack line of Labour policy being rooted in wealth envy and accusations of creating equality by dragging down.

Synecdoche can be a very useful tool in politics, imo; specific examples of problems, their effects and their causes, can dig into people's brains more easily than generalisations, and are often more difficult to attack. I personally believe that "Labour want to deal with people like Mike Ashley and Philip Green" is a more effective message to put to people than "Labour think billionaires are bad".
But you're wrong because being a Billionaire is morally wrong and completely indefensible. Simple as. Jezza knows this truth in the same way that the person on the street knows it.

Simple argument are more effective for soundbites/marketing than complex, long winded and wonky explanations about the systemic failings of capitalism. If Jezza was having a three hour roundtable with some academics about this issue then you might expect him to go into more detail, but he's not in that scenario. He's running a campaign and therefore he has to make short, sharp points.

Incidentally, as I mentioned above it, doesn't even matter what he says because if the media wants to portray him as a baby eating anti-Semitic anti-royalist terrorist then they will. Creatively misinterpreting Jezza is their favourite pastime.
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,629


This is also a few days after Sinn Fein and the SDLP endorsed her for the seat.
 

Garfield

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 31, 2018
2,772
I have a sneaky suspicion the LD could go with the Tories if Boris agrees to a second ref.

seems a long shot I know but I have heard Swinson say not a chance with Labour.
 

Ando

Member
Apr 21, 2018
744
Once again, fucked. It was my generation that got fucked by the banking crisis and had to work through it, had our living squeezed etc. Can't even catch a break now.

agreed. your generation was screwed over massively, i'm sad the burden of loans won't be relieved but hope other labour policies will help you if they form a government after the election

undoing the damage the tories have done to this country over the last decade will take a lot of work for years across every aspect of society and labour has to transform the economy with a green industrial revolution so we don't get fucked by climate change on top of that.
 

Minky

Verified
Oct 27, 2017
481
UK
Dreading this election and the probable clusterfuck of the hung parliament that follows.
I have my issues with Labour, but they're the only viable option if the overall objective is to rip out the Tory scum once and for all. If I wasn't voting tactically, Greens would probably get my support every time.
The Lib Dems can go and fuck themselves.
 

Gareth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,462
Norn Iron
I have a sneaky suspicion the LD could go with the Tories if Boris agrees to a second ref.

seems a long shot I know but I have heard Swinson say not a chance with Labour.
I reckon that's their plan too, they've bolstered their numbers with Corbyn-hating ex-Tory MPs and Corbyn-hating ex-Labour MPs so I can't see them siding with Labour instead.
 

nekkid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,823
No way are they clearing existing student debt. Best you can hope for is a cut in interest or a shorter payment period cut-off.
 

SMD

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,341
It is, but is a bitter thing to take when my parents generation were largely fine and the lot after me are catching the breaks. My wife and I have a child now and could do with a break or two. We don't qualify for anything and are just over the limit for any sort of means tested assistance. I'm paying over £150 a month on student loans alone, then having to put in 9% for pension.

I get you man, all I can say is it's a harsh lesson we should learn to never let these kinds of gobshites into power again.
 

Geoff

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,115
agreed, some pension pots are going to get seriously robbed by Goverments to pay for them
It was never designed to all be paid back. That's the deal. If you don't earn enough to meet the threshold, you don't have to pay back the loan.

One thing about the constant looking back to 2017...2017 and 2015 were real outliers for the lib-dems. They would normally do much better. You need to look at 2005 and 2010 to see where their traditional strongholds are.
 

Ando

Member
Apr 21, 2018
744
I have a sneaky suspicion the LD could go with the Tories if Boris agrees to a second ref.

seems a long shot I know but I have heard Swinson say not a chance with Labour.

i just can't see the tories backing a 2nd ref ever ever ever

imo if there's a hung parliament the lib dems will abstain or vote for a tory budget and some basic uncontroversial policies but veto any brexit bill ala the DUP

after the election most of their seats will be held in affluent tory areas full of ppl who think gordon brown was a dangerous overspender let alone corbyn, they definitely aren't backing anything labour or they will lose them again very quickly
 

Ando

Member
Apr 21, 2018
744
The Tories' Brexit plans proved a bridge too far for the DUP. Jo Swinson called Boris Johnson our answer to Donald Trump. I really think people are barking up the wrong tree here.

the lib dems will actually have to back someone on some level though if boris doesn't win a majority, the FTPA does change things wrt the consequences of failing to pass a queen's speech but a government realistically can't function in the westminster system if it can't pass a budget and there will just be another election
 
OP
OP
Uzzy

Uzzy

Gabe’s little helper
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,222
Hull, UK


The Tories are really utterly absurd at times.

Oh, also it's the poor Tories that are the victims in these past few days.

 

Garfield

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 31, 2018
2,772
Tom Watson standing down...Sky news calling it a bomb shell for Labour
 

Koukalaka

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,312
Scotland
While it was always going to be a massive uphill struggle to defeat the Tories at a GE - the way they've been fucking up in every conceivable way since the start has been heartening.
 

Ravensmash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,797


I wonder if the Lib Dem's have been so strong on the "no coalition/pact" stuff because they were trying to pre-empt crap like this.
 

Simon21

Member
Apr 25, 2018
1,134
The deputy leader of a party standing down is definitely worthy of the title of "bombshell", whether you liked them personally or not.
 

Geoff

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,115
One of the last links to the New Labour days, certainly the biggest hitter remaining and arguably a leader for that faction of the membership (which is still quite a lot of people).

You may not like him but that'll be some votes gone
 
Oct 31, 2017
10,056
One of the last links to the New Labour days, certainly the biggest hitter remaining and arguably a leader for that faction of the membership (which is still quite a lot of people).

You may not like him but that'll be some votes gone

Yeah, cant say I've been his biggest fan over the last few years, but he was a big beast. Honestly, I wish him the best, and I'm sorry to see him go.
 
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