UK Coronavirus Discussion

[Protome]

What is the objection to masks anyway? Aside from the fact they steam up your glasses a bit. Like it's such a minor thing to be cautious, i don't know why people wouldn't

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People just don't like wearing masks 🤷‍♂️ It's not a good reason but it's a reason I guess.
Getting people to wear masks in general is probably a lost cause but I feel like with a solid push getting people to wear masks indoors and in public transport (where they're far more effective anyway) would be possible. Scotland definitely seems to have taken to it pretty quickly at least, I think England would come around to it if the government wasn't being so shitty.

 

[Gawge]

What is the objection to masks anyway? Aside from the fact they steam up your glasses a bit. Like it's such a minor thing to be cautious, i don't know why people wouldn't

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I wear them in shops etc... I did find it uncomfortable when I was on a train a couple of weeks ago (and took it off given I was the only person in my carriage). Not so uncomfortable it's not possible, but still, it was noticeable.

Nevertheless, I think most opposition is more to do with optics related to either toxic masculinity or as part of the never-ending culture war.

 

[It’s Time To Go]

Because the EU is doing it, and America isn't. A huge proportion of England for some insane reason want to be a state subservient to America than equal partners in Europe.

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I wear them in shops etc... I did find it uncomfortable when I was on a train a couple of weeks ago (and took it off given I was the only person in my carriage). Not so uncomfortable it's not possible, but still, it was noticeable.

Nevertheless, I think most opposition is more to do with optics related to either toxic masculinity or as part of the never-ending culture war.

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People just don't like wearing masks 🤷‍♂️ It's not a good reason but it's a reason I guess.
Getting people to wear masks in general is probably a lost cause but I feel like with a solid push getting people to wear masks indoors and in public transport (where they're far more effective anyway) would be possible. Scotland definitely seems to have taken to it pretty quickly at least, I think England would come around to it if the government wasn't being so shitty.

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Probably all this. I mean they're not great to wear but if the choice is that or Covid, it's an easy decision.

 

[Ravensmash]

Victoria Derbyshire had a tweet/email from someone earlier who said that if they're forced to wear a mask in shops, they just won't go shopping...

 

[Fatoy]

And this, for me, is such a big part of why Masks need to be mandatory. Even on the assumption we will have a vaccine, on the record timescale(18 months) that still takes us to roughly this time next year. We need to adjust to living with it and masks are such a huge part of that. We need to get them in ASAP.

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I agree with this. If we want to improve current transmission rates or even hold them at this level while we reopen more industries, the government needs to have a firm stance on what individual responsibility looks like.

Seeing Gove trotting out the "common sense" line is especially galling, because common sense is in very short supply. And to add to that, I used to think a lot of what the average person did wrong - congregating, going to beaches, not wearing masks etc. - was malicious, but I've increasingly come around to the idea that people are just a bit thick and don't understand how infectious diseases work. Having a government mandate to wear a mask ANYWHERE INDOORS, accompanied by a proper education campaign in print and on TV, would help educate them.

If Asda can run an advert about how people should comport themselves in a shop, then the government can run one. Stick the X Factor judges in masks. Whatever it takes. Just don't leave it up to people who I now believe genuinely don't understand the situation to make their own choices. Because a meaningful percentage of them are going to make the wrong ones.

 

[Protome]

Probably all this. I mean they're not great to wear but if the choice is that or Covid, it's an easy decision.

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Oh definitely. I've not been wearing mine outdoors (partially because the area I live is pretty quiet and everyone social distances well) but you'd be hard pressed to get me in anywhere other than my flat not wearing one lol

 

[gerg]

EDIT: That's a pretty key thing for anyone who says we need to wait longer on reopening businesses. The big businesses you hate can play that waiting game a lot longer than the SME competition. And when they do tighten their belts, it'll be regular workers who get cut first. Framing reopening as any sort of anti-capitalist position is simplifying things way too much. Amazon can take losses as long as it can find outside investors who believe those losses will turn into longer-term market dominance, and then hire up again from the ashes. SMEs can probably weather losses for another month or two, after which point they're gone for good.

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That's only because you're not thinking with the ur-socialist mindset. The government should have no problem keeping those businesses going indefinitely if it really cared about the welfare of its people, because it can rely on all those taxes it will completely raise back when stuff re-opens and life immediately returns to normal and no long-term changes to consumer and corporate spending take place.

 

[It’s Time To Go]

Oh definitely. I've not been wearing mine outdoors (partially because the area I live is pretty quiet and everyone social distances well) but you'd be hard pressed to get me in anywhere other than my flat not wearing one lol

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I'm the same right now. Specially since people don't quite seem to grasp social distancing Properly.

 

[Fatoy]

Oh definitely. I've not been wearing mine outdoors (partially because the area I live is pretty quiet and everyone social distances well) but you'd be hard pressed to get me in anywhere other than my flat not wearing one lol

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Absolutely. Trying to enforce outdoor wearing is largely pointless, unless you're on a busy city street, but there needs to be a new message underlining the importance of getting people to wear masks indoors. I know I sound like I'm insulting people's intelligence here - I suppose I am - but I'd like to see Philip Schofield and Holly Willoughby film an episode of GMB with masks on - just to see if it'd help people get over their stubbornness.

To be clear: I know masks are uncomfortable. I feel mine fits reasonably well, but it still hurts my ears after a while, and the lower half of my face comes out feeling like a steamed dumpling, but I'll take that over potentially killing myself or someone else.

 

[Gawge]

Seeing Gove trotting out the "common sense" line is especially galling, because common sense is in very short supply. And to add to that, I used to think a lot of what the average person did wrong - congregating, going to beaches, not wearing masks etc. - was malicious, but I've increasingly come around to the idea that people are just a bit thick and don't understand how infectious diseases work.

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I don't understand how we are expected to have 'common sense' about such an unprecedented disease.

The government have the best scientists and public health experts at their disposal. The average person does not. They need to be telling us what is reasonable.

I don't think it's reasonable to expect the average person to know the ins and outs of transmission of a disease the kind none of us of have ever experienced before. The public were generally very wary when the (late) government guidance was firm and (relatively) clear about staying at home. The public have followed the governments lead with the continual vague easing. "Enjoy summer safely"? The blame here is all on the government.

 

[Fatoy]

I don't understand how we are expected to have 'common sense' about such an unprecedented disease.

The government have the best scientists and public health experts at their disposal. The average person does not. They need to be telling us what is reasonable.

I don't think it's reasonable to expect the average person to know the ins and outs of transmission of a disease the kind none of us of have ever experienced before. The public were generally very wary when the (late) government guidance was firm and (relatively) clear about staying at home. The public have followed the governments lead with the continual vague easing. "Enjoy summer safely"? The blame here is all on the government.

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I mean, I agree. I was just pointing out how my own thinking had evolved. At the time of the ridiculous VE Day parties, I was quite vocal on here (and in person) about how downright mean and inconsiderate the people on my street were to be taking part in them. I don't feel that way any more: I now think they just don't understand the situation properly, and that really underlines the need for rules and education.

As a case in point: a friend of mine is a dentist, so he's recently returned to work on emergency procedures. He was talking to a nurse who works in his practice last week, and she was telling him how seriously she was taking the whole thing. Then she said she'd "been to Five Guys". He asked: "Like, a drive-through?" Her response: "We went in the car yeah." Him: "But you ate in the car as well?" Her: "No. Why?"

She isn't a mask wearer. She just didn't seem to understand why going into a restaurant was different from getting a drive-through or a takeaway. That's the sort of understanding gap the government needs to bridge.

 

[phisheep]

One week after pubs reopened, and we're seeing an uptick in new cases. We're opening shops, sending people back to offices when they can clearly work from home, being told that masks are not compulsory, and it is clear to me that the British public simply dont give a fuck about social distancing any more... And yet we're still the third worst hit country in the world and its obvious that we're completely following Trump's lead into just letting rhis disease burn through human lives, so that while the US uses the confusion to fuck with this year's election, the UK can allow Brexit to devastate our economy and medical supplies.

And then there's the sudden, both feet first act of sending all children back to school compulsorarily in September, when we know for a fact that in other countries, this has seen cases increase. They should be at least staggering that stuff.

Just ......urgh.

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One of the things I love about this thread - this little socially-distanced bubble that we've built for ourselves - is the different senses of reality we get from each others' experiences. I'll always remember your neighbour's car repairs, SuperSah 's teeth and bicycles, the various teachers/nurses/office workers etc that we have here whether key or non-key essential or "non-essential", furloughed or shielded or otherwise.

But even for you God_Of_Phwoar this is a bit extreme. We are nowhere close to following Trump on this. Maybe Cuomo, in that we started late and are in a longer battle than maybe we needed to have. Even Johnson and Gove are nowhere near as bad as Trump.

And I think you're far too eager to conflate "person with business interests" with "the rich". Does the decision to reopen serve the interests of fat cats? Absolutely. Is it also essential for the survival of a massive swathe of small businesses and their suppliers? Also absolutely.

There is no scenario where the economy as we know it can be saved with no additional lives lost. It's impossible. And while I certainly wouldn't bemoan the death of some of the parasitic big businesses that dominate many sectors, every one of those we wait to run into the ground would also kill off potentially thousands of smaller enterprises.

EDIT: That's a pretty key thing for anyone who says we need to wait longer on reopening businesses. The big businesses you hate can play that waiting game a lot longer than the SME competition. And when they do tighten their belts, it'll be regular workers who get cut first. Framing reopening as any sort of anti-capitalist position is simplifying things way too much. Amazon can take losses as long as it can find outside investors who believe those losses will turn into longer-term market dominance, and then hire up again from the ashes. SMEs can probably weather losses for another month or two, after which point they're gone for good.

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This.

I am gradually coming to terms with the fact that my business is completely dead. If I were to re-open I would get at best only about a quarter the usual trade, which wouldn't even cover the rent and utility bills let alone staff costs. I sell jewellery, and people will not buy jewellery when there are no concerts, parties, plays or outings to go to; and no-one will teach jewellery-making when there are no women's institutes, craft groups, and nobody to sell stuff to. Come the end of the furlough scheme in October my income will vanish.

And I am one of the lucky ones. I've been able to close the shop down and avoid rent payments. It's much much worse for those stuck in the middle of a commercial lease (like one friend of mine took out a 5-year lease only a few weeks before lockdown). Small retailers are in deep trouble right now. Wholesalers ditto. The manufacturers are trying to keep their sales up by selling online direct to the consumer, which undercuts the usual retail pricing and means all my leftover stock cannot be sold except for less than I paid for it.

My only medium-term lifeline is the corporation tax refund I will be owed.

 

[jem]

I feel like a major step for masks is simply making them fashionable.

A lot of the masks you see people wearing are the ugly blue surgical masks or stuff like N95 dust masks. People just simply don't like wearing ugly things on their face.

 

[Soap]

Victoria Derbyshire had a tweet/email from someone earlier who said that if they're forced to wear a mask in shops, they just won't go shopping...

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She always reads stupid tweets like that out.

 

[SuperSah]

One week after pubs reopened, and we're seeing an uptick in new cases. We're opening shops, sending people back to offices when they can clearly work from home, being told that masks are not compulsory, and it is clear to me that the British public simply dont give a fuck about social distancing any more... And yet we're still the third worst hit country in the world and its obvious that we're completely following Trump's lead into just letting rhis disease burn through human lives, so that while the US uses the confusion to fuck with this year's election, the UK can allow Brexit to devastate our economy and medical supplies.

And then there's the sudden, both feet first act of sending all children back to school compulsorarily in September, when we know for a fact that in other countries, this has seen cases increase. They should be at least staggering that stuff.

Just ......urgh.

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Lol and people told me that this dude doesn't have a problem.

 

[shaneo632]

Surprised how many of my friends are now going to pubs and restaurants. I just think the anxiety for me isn't worth it of having to trust other people to not be stupid fuckholes.

 

[Deleted member 40953]

Lol and people told me that this dude doesn't have a problem.

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Comments like this don't help though

Everyone has the right to be anxious/nervous about it

 

[DeltaRed]

"This country is uniquely blessed with fantastic places to holiday, whether coastal or otherwise," he said. However, he went on to add: "If people feel the need for a foreign holiday, then that is completely a matter for them. I totally understand it."

Stay in the UK this Summer. Or don't. Whatever.

 

[Jokerman]

If previous experience is anything to go by, telling people they *have* to do something automatically makes them rebel and say, fuck that, so I can't see even mandatory face covering being a thing. Can someone explain how they would work in a restaurant?

 

[Ronnie Poncho]

Can't believe that face coverings aren't mandatory yet.

I wore mine in Sainsbury's the other day. I hated it. It made my beard itch. But I did it because it's a tiny inconvenience compared to coronavirus.

Might swap to a snood though, less faff

Victoria Derbyshire had a tweet/email from someone earlier who said that if they're forced to wear a mask in shops, they just won't go shopping...

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That's better than turning up and refusing to wear a mask. Click and collect that shit.

 

[Oregano]

Other than making them mandatory I think the government subsidising the cost and providing free masks to everyone would have a lot more people wearing them. Just having them offered for free at the supermarket entrance would make a big difference.

 

[Humidex]

That's the sort of understanding gap the government needs to bridge.

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It's a big assumption that this govt. even remotely cares about bridging said gap...

 

[Newman96]

I feel like a major step for masks is simply making them fashionable.

A lot of the masks you see people wearing are the ugly blue surgical masks or stuff like N95 dust masks. People just simply don't like wearing ugly things on their face.

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I saw the other day that masks will be mandatory at football matches when they let fans back in, we were joking around saying you'd make a killing doing masks with team colours/badges on them.

 

[Spookie]

Surprised how many of my friends are now going to pubs and restaurants. I just think the anxiety for me isn't worth it of having to trust other people to not be stupid fuckholes.

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As I said on board game discord I went the pub on Saturday night. It was very quiet considering the day of the week and they had made a good effort to keep everyone distanced or put barriers between you. Everyone was being reasonable trying to keep the distance except the old folks who didn't give a fuck.

I won't be doing that again for at least a few weeks and my preference would be to go for an outdoor meal as it's easier to handle folks from trying to be in your face. But it was nice to let off some steam and catch up with people which I desperately needed.

 

[Aprikurt]

Surprised how many of my friends are now going to pubs and restaurants. I just think the anxiety for me isn't worth it of having to trust other people to not be stupid fuckholes.

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It's actually been fine for the most part. I'm sure it isn't elsewhere. But I've been to a few pubs now, and haven't felt any less safe than I would in a local supermarket.

I think we can too easily catastrophise when we've got no concrete idea of what something's like outside of our own perception and only the Soho pictures to confirm that...

 

[Jokerman]

Can't believe that face coverings aren't mandatory yet.

I wore mine in Sainsbury's the other day. I hated it. It made my beard itch. But I did it because I'm not a big baby and it's a tiny inconvenience compared to coronavirus.

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Don't you have to be careful with beards and masks, in terms of creating a seal, or has that been debunked?

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Other than making them mandatory I think the government subsidising the cost and providing free masks to everyone would have a lot more people wearing them. Just having them offered for free at the supermarket entrance would make a big difference.

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Our local Morrisons was handing out masks at the entrance on Saturday, and talking to a relative who works there it seems as though the policy is that Morrisons will be handing them out and eating the cost for the first week in an attempt to encourage adoption and to avoid conflict with customers who don't have their own. That didn't stop one person turning up with their own mask in hand and then refusing to wear it, but hey-ho...

Don't you have to be careful with beards and masks, in terms of creating a seal, or has that been debunked?

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If you're wearing something like an N95 mask in an environment where they are required and are wearing it correctly then, yes, I think that a proper seal isn't possible with a beard. If you're wearing a face covering to the shops and your primary concern is about limiting how much you're spreading by breathing, talking, coughing etc. then I think it's less of a concern - the drive here isn't to get everyone wearing medical-grade N95 masks and fitting them perfectly, it's to get a decent face covering to help limit spread as far as practically possible in situations where distancing isn't possible or desirable.

From the CDC:

So, you want to grow out your beard, but wear a tight-fitting respirator at work? Ensuring the respirator seal is a vital part of respiratory protection practices. Facial hair that lies along the sealing area of a respirator, such as beards, sideburns, or some mustaches, will interfere with respirators that rely on a tight facepiece seal to achieve maximum protection. Facial hair is a common reason that someone cannot be fit tested.

The reason for this is simple – gases, vapors, and particles in the air will take the path of least resistance and bypass the part of the respirator that captures or filters hazards out. So then, why can't facial hair act as a crude filter to capture particles that pass between the respirator sealing area and the skin? While human hair appears to be very thin to the naked eye, hair is much larger in size than the particles inhaled. Facial hair is just not dense enough and the individual hairs are too large to capture particles like an air filter does; nor will a beard trap gases and vapors like the carbon bed in a respirator cartridge. Therefore, the vast majority of particles, gases, and vapors follow the air stream right through the facial hair and into respiratory tract of the wearer. In fact, some studies have shown that even a day or two of stubble can begin to reduce protection. Research tells us that the presence of facial hair under the sealing surface causes 20 to 1000 times more leakage compared to clean-shaven individuals.

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That's the kind of environment where being clean-shaven and using a respirator go hand-in-hand; the expectation for mask-wearing in Scotland and elsewhere isn't that you're achieving that kind of tight seal, but that you're covering your mouth and nose while in relatively close contact with other people.

 

[Deleted member 44129]

Lol and people told me that this dude doesn't have a problem.

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Yeah, you're just being rude.

 

[Oregano]

Our local Morrisons was handing out masks at the entrance on Saturday, and talking to a relative who works there it seems as though the policy is that Morrisons will be handing them out and eating the cost for the first week in an attempt to encourage adoption and to avoid conflict with customers who don't have their own. That didn't stop one person turning up with their own mask in hand and then refusing to wear it, but hey-ho...

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🤦‍♂️

Good idea though.

 

[Haribokart]

Yeah, you're just being rude.

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Have you tried taking speaking to a doctor about your mental health and anxiety? You have consistently overreacted throughout this pandemic and while I think it is good to be cautious, you are taking it to a crazy degree and have definitely freaked out and made a few people leave the thread. I think you should try to get some help mate, please don't take this as a personal attack as I TOTALLY understand where you are coming from but am a little concerned for you.

 

[zuf]

Surprised how many of my friends are now going to pubs and restaurants. I just think the anxiety for me isn't worth it of having to trust other people to not be stupid fuckholes.

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I've been to pubs more in the last week than I did the year before lockdown (three times). Booking a table, sitting outside and get table service via an app actually works pretty well. No more pushing through crowded bars. Still haven't been indoors at one though.

 

[NeonCarbon]

Im just fed up with all the delays to taking action, when there isn't much to think about.

 

[Fatoy]

Yeah, you're just being rude.

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I think it's more the case that we sometimes have a productive conversation going on here about what it means, pragmatically, to try and move forward in the current circumstances, but you seem determined not to set a foot outside what looks like a zone of constant panic. It's frustrating for people observing it and trying to help, so I'm sure it's much worse for you. It doesn't need to be like that.

EDIT: I haven't been to a pub or restaurant yet, but I'm not against going. It's my birthday at the end of August, and I'm confident I'll have been for at least a beer by then, because I'd like to try and have a family meal (outdoors hopefully) before the kids go back to school.

 

[Deleted member 862]

Bought some of those Adidas face masks people mentioned in here because I think they're going to make it mandatory soon.

 

[baskcm]

So has anyone recently gone to Asda my wife has nipped over there today and she said there isn't a.one way system in there anymore

 

[Luckett_X]

Yeah, you're just being rude.

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Lad, I've seen you peddling conspiracy theories that Trump is trying to kill as many Americans as possible on Russian orders in other threads. You genuinely and earnestly need to start thinking about seeking professional help.

 

[Fatoy]

So has anyone recently gone to Asda my wife has nipped over there today and she said there isn't a.one way system in there anymore

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I think one-way systems are being phased out, since they didn't really have the desired effect - at least in my, admittedly limited, first-hand experience.

 

[gerg]

So has anyone recently gone to Asda my wife has nipped over there today and she said there isn't a.one way system in there anymore

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I think a lot of supermarkets have gotten rid of that now.

 

[Rosur]

So has anyone recently gone to Asda my wife has nipped over there today and she said there isn't a.one way system in there anymore

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Yea they seemed to have removed them from tescos this last week as well, likely due to the drop to 1 meter so no longer needed (not that people seemed to be following them).

 

[baskcm]

I think a lot of supermarkets have gotten rid of that now.

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I thought Asda where gonna keep it oh well if the mask thing becomes ya have to wear one I don't see the need for it anyhow ( just need to get a mask that I can wear with my glasses)

 

[Vashetti]

Face masks to be compulsory on public transport in Wales

People will have to cover their face if they are travelling on buses, trains or taxis in Wales

www.walesonline.co.uk

 

[Xun]

I'm still furloughed, but since last week I've been doing a bit of part-time work.

It's annoying since I'm not sure how long I should be working each day, and I hope my company doesn't take the piss considering they're only paying my salary up to 90%.

 

[Camoxide]

Bought some of those Adidas face masks people mentioned in here because I think they're going to make it mandatory soon.

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Same, ordered on Sunday and they're here already!

 

[Ronnie Poncho]

Don't you have to be careful with beards and masks, in terms of creating a seal, or has that been debunked?

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I think if you're a doctor/medical professional and you need to wear PPE then a beard probably makes a difference. But for the average joe (our masks are not PPE, so they'll never have a perfect seal) I don't think it makes too much difference. Popping the mask on is better than not.

 

[Protome]

I think if you're a doctor/medical professional and you need to wear PPE then a beard probably makes a difference. But for the average joe (our masks are not PPE, so they'll never have a perfect seal) I don't think it makes too much difference. Popping the mask on is better than not.

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Yeah the more important thing with general population's use of masks is that you find a mask that is comfortable for you. Less fiddling because you're wearing an uncomfortable mask means less times your hands near your face, less chance you'll be transferring the virus onto your hands and later back onto your uncovered face.

Outside of that, as long as your mouth and nose are covered it doesn't matter too much.

 

[killer_clank]

I think one-way systems are being phased out, since they didn't really have the desired effect - at least in my, admittedly limited, first-hand experience.

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Yeah they didn't really work all that well since you were stuck behind people.

In Scotland the vast majority of people are wearing masks, so getting rid of the one way system is working well here

 

[Razmos]

Still seeing barely anyone wearing facemasks on public transport, if anything the amouny has gone down. Why create rules and not enforce them?

 

[Gawge]

Pret is struggling, time to get back on the tube gang.

 

[DeltaRed]

I saw the other day that masks will be mandatory at football matches when they let fans back in, we were joking around saying you'd make a killing doing masks with team colours/badges on them.

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[War Peaceman]

Still seeing barely anyone wearing facemasks on public transport, if anything the amouny has gone down. Why create rules and not enforce them?

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How would you enforce them?

This government is fucking shite but the masks on public transport is one of the few things they've got right. The problem is that we collectively need to demonstrate the need for masks at all* times